[lsj] Leadership Vaccuum

Say i have a leadership vaccuum in play. during my prey's untap phase, they have a ready titled vampire. because LV is MY card, after the methuselah who's untap phase it is has done their untappy stuff, then i get to order my stuff for their untap phase, right? so i can make them take the pool loss before the LV burns? or do they get to order the effects of my card during their untap phase? cause that'd make LV pretty much suck-tastic. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

salem wrote: > Say i have a leadership vaccuum in play. > > during my prey's untap phase, they have a ready titled vampire. > > because LV is MY card, after the methuselah who's untap phase it is > has done their untappy stuff, then i get to order my stuff for their > untap phase, right? > > so i can make them take the pool loss before the LV burns? > > or do they get to order the effects of my card during their untap > phase? This, essentially. They order the burning just as they would be able to order the pool loss from Army of Rats. Once LV is burned, the question of ordering the pool loss is moot. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:15:41 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >salem wrote: > >> Say i have a leadership vaccuum in play. >> >> during my prey's untap phase, they have a ready titled vampire. >> >> because LV is MY card, after the methuselah who's untap phase it is >> has done their untappy stuff, then i get to order my stuff for their >> untap phase, right? >> >> so i can make them take the pool loss before the LV burns? >> >> or do they get to order the effects of my card during their untap >> phase? > >This, essentially. They order the burning just as they would be >able to order the pool loss from Army of Rats. Once LV is burned, >the question of ordering the pool loss is moot. well, sir, i just don't like it. :) i thought the army of rats ordering thing was more like...ok...some set up: A is meth who's turn it is. B, C, D are the other methuselahs around the table. D has army of rats. other methuselahs have miscellaneous stuff. A goes '1 for edge, 1 from hunting ground. do other people want to respond with effects in my untap phase? B? C? C says 'i tap heidleburg to move 3 blood from Marcus to Giangaleazzo' A goes 'in response, i'll get 2 from the Rack. B? C? D?' D says 'ok, army of rats' A says 'now, i'll look at the top card of my library using my Weirding Stone. nothing else from me again. B? C? D?' 'right then, master phase...' that's how i read things from 1.6.2 (where it says who controls master cards) 1.6.3 (where it says who controls minion cards) and 1.6.1.6 (sequencing). is the part where the current turn's methuselah gets to apply effects from cards controlled by other methuselahs (what if they are optional, does he get to make them happen or not at his whim?) during his own untap phase come from somewhere in the rulebook, or from prior rulings? from: 4. Untap Phase we have: Any cards or effects that require or allow you to do something during your untap phase take effect after you have untapped your cards. You may choose the order in which these effects take place. from that i took the second sentence's 'these effects' to apply to effects that allow YOU to do something (what the first sentence was talking about). Army of Rats and Leadership Vaccuum seem to be cards that allow _other_ methuselahs to do something during your untap phase, and thus _wouldn't_ be ordered by you. unless you want to read it weird, and get to some sort of interpretation which, when extended, might have another methuselah bleeding me allows ME to lose pool, and is thus one of my effects. [ quoted text not captured ]

salem wrote: > from that i took the second sentence's 'these effects' to apply to > effects that allow YOU to do something (what the first sentence was > talking about). Army of Rats and Leadership Vaccuum seem to be cards > that allow _other_ methuselahs to do something during your untap > phase, and thus _wouldn't_ be ordered by you. Army of Rats was a poorly chosen example on my part, since its effect happens under the untap phase of its controller. Sorry about that. > unless you want to read it weird, and get to some sort of > interpretation which, when extended, might have another methuselah > bleeding me allows ME to lose pool, and is thus one of my effects. One of the effects of resolving the action, sure. There are scant effects that also resolve in that time. The effects that resolve "when the action resolves" are either either "before resolving the action" or "after". So the question of how to order one thing (and who chooses) is not very interesting. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:32:06 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >salem wrote: >> from that i took the second sentence's 'these effects' to apply to >> effects that allow YOU to do something (what the first sentence was >> talking about). Army of Rats and Leadership Vaccuum seem to be cards >> that allow _other_ methuselahs to do something during your untap >> phase, and thus _wouldn't_ be ordered by you. > >Army of Rats was a poorly chosen example on my part, since its effect >happens under the untap phase of its controller. Sorry about that. it's ok, as for some reason i was picturing it as occuring during the untap phase of the meth who suffers from it, anyway, in my nice long fictional game transcription. let's pretend that everywhere it said "Army of Rats" we meant "Anarch Revolt" so, to back up a bit, could we answer this?: is the part where the current turn's methuselah gets to apply effects from cards controlled by other methuselahs (what if they are optional, does he get to make them happen or not at his whim?) during his own untap phase come from somewhere in the rulebook, or from prior rulings? [ quoted text not captured ]

salem wrote: > is the part where the current turn's methuselah gets to apply effects > from cards controlled by other methuselahs (what if they are optional, > does he get to make them happen or not at his whim?) during his own > untap phase come from somewhere in the rulebook, or from prior > rulings? He gets to apply his effects. In this case, burning the Leadership Vacuum that targets him is one of his effects, poorly worded though it may be. [ quoted text not captured ]