XZealot wrote:
> If I only have Mata Hari in play, am I able to play Terra Incognita?
Mata Hari can play Terra Incognita as a Laibon, yes. If she does, then
she is
not a "non-Laibon", so doesn't run afoul of that restriction.
assume vampire A labon untapped and vampire B anarch
Does this mean vampire A can play TI, but not use its effects?
Or TI see's that when Mata Hari plays it she will be laibon?
Wedge
mat...@gmail.com wrote:
> XZealot wrote:>> If I only have Mata Hari in play, am I able to play Terra Incognita?>
>
> Mata Hari can play Terra Incognita as a Laibon, yes. If she does, then
> she is
> not a "non-Laibon", so doesn't run afoul of that restriction.
>
>
>
> assume vampire A labon untapped and vampire B anarch
>
> Does this mean vampire A can play TI, but not use its effects?
Assuming B is ready:
No. Card text: "Not usable if you control any ready non-Laibon vampires."
The anarch is Independent, so non-Laibon.
> Or TI see's that when Mata Hari plays it she will be laibon?
?
Is Mata vamp A?
OK, then she plays TI as a Laibon. So, even though she is not Laibon and never
becomes Laibon, TI sees her as Laibon.
On Apr 25, 7:40 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
I have some more question about this.
Mata Hari has 2 votes (titled). You and she may play cards that
require a sect and/or clan as if she were of that required sect or
clan. I assume "you" only aplies too masters and events.
I now know TI sees Mata as laibon.
If I have two ready vampires Mata(tapped) and Sanjo(untapped, 2
blood)magaji.
A deflection has been declaired w/ me as the target.
May sanjo play TI to cancel deflection?
My understanding is; TI will "see" two laibon in the ready region.
Once played Mata no longer registers as laibon, since TI has already
been played it no longer matters.
just trying to get my head around this "sees".
Matt
mat...@gmail.com wrote:
> If I have two ready vampires Mata(tapped) and Sanjo(untapped, 2
> blood)magaji.
> A deflection has been declaired w/ me as the target.
> May sanjo play TI to cancel deflection?
> My understanding is; TI will "see" two laibon in the ready region.
> Once played Mata no longer registers as laibon, since TI has already
> been played it no longer matters.
The TI Sanjo plays does not see Mata as a Laibon, since she isn't playing it
(and isn't being used as the ready-x for playing it, for master card cases).
So Sanjo cannot play TI, since "you" control a ready non-Laibon: Mata.
[ quoted text not captured ]> Matt- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, Mata Hari is an Independent Ravnos, not Laibon. Reaction cards are
played by the minion, not you, so Mata Hari's card text does not come
into things if Sanjo plays the cards. Nothing in her card text allows
other minions you control to play cards and consider her of a diffect
sect/clan. An !Gangrel could not Follow the Alpha after a combat
involved Mata Hari, she would gain no blood from an archbishop of
yours playing Blood Feast, Kemintiri could not choose her to become a
Hierophant, etc.
Chris, Thrall of Arika
On Apr 28, 1:20 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
If Sanjo plays a card, is that not also a card I am playing? If so,
doesn't this:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/098199156e068b3d
"You can play Ventrue Investment as if Mata were a Ventrue anti, even
if she is in torpor (as long as you have some other enabling ready
Ventrue anti, of course). "
mean that I can also play (through Sanjo) Terra Incognita as if Mata
Hari were a Laibon even if she is not the one playing it?
On Apr 28, 10:20 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
This has answered all my questions regarding cards in hand recognizing
game state. Thank you for your clarity and understanding.
Matt
On Apr 28, 12:27 pm, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Apr 28, 1:20 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > matt...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > If I have two ready vampires Mata(tapped) and Sanjo(untapped, 2
> > > blood)magaji.
> > > A deflection has been declaired w/ me as the target.
> > > May sanjo play TI to cancel deflection?
> > > My understanding is; TI will "see" two laibon in the ready region.
> > > Once played Mata no longer registers as laibon, since TI has already
> > > been played it no longer matters.
>
> > The TI Sanjo plays does not see Mata as a Laibon, since she isn't playing it
> > (and isn't being used as the ready-x for playing it, for master card cases).
>
> > So Sanjo cannot play TI, since "you" control a ready non-Laibon: Mata.
>
> If Sanjo plays a card, is that not also a card I am playing?
It is a card that you the player is playing in the game, but for the
game itself, it's the minion playing the card, not you as the
controlling Methuselah. The only cards 'you' play are Master Cards.
Event Cards are simply put into play. Everything else are Minion
Cards, played by your minions.
> If so, doesn't this:> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/0981...> "You can play Ventrue Investment as if Mata were a Ventrue anti, even
> if she is in torpor (as long as you have some other enabling ready
> Ventrue anti, of course). "
>
> mean that I can also play (through Sanjo) Terra Incognita as if Mata
> Hari were a Laibon even if she is not the one playing it?
The argument of that thread, and the eventual ruling, was in regards
to how a Metheselah plays master cards. Mata Hari's text doesn't
specify that she must be the enabling vampire for her sect/clan to be
seen as something else in regards to cards such as Ventrue Investment.
In the scenario, Mata Hari was in torpor, and thus not ready to be the
enabling vampire. But the player has a !Ventrue who is ready, so they
are allowed to play the card. For this card, her card text essentially
reads: "You may play cards that require !Ventrue as if she were !
Ventrue". Her text doesn't actually specify that she has to be the one
enabling you to play the card, and the card can treat her as !Ventrue
for when it is played.
In any case, a Metheselah cannot play Minion Cards. If they could,
then the "and she" in her card text would be redundent. Her card text
thus doesn't apply when your other minions play minion cards (such as
Terra Incognita), since it's neither you (as the Metheselah) or her
playing the card.
Chris, Thrall of Arika
> > > The TI Sanjo plays does not see Mata as a Laibon, since she isn't playing it
> > > (and isn't being used as the ready-x for playing it, for master card cases).
>
> > > So Sanjo cannot play TI, since "you" control a ready non-Laibon: Mata.
>
> > If Sanjo plays a card, is that not also a card I am playing?
>
> It is a card that you the player is playing in the game, but for the
> game itself, it's the minion playing the card, not you as the
> controlling Methuselah. The only cards 'you' play are Master Cards.
> Event Cards are simply put into play. Everything else are Minion
> Cards, played by your minions.
so this means you may not use Agaitas on event cards?
It is my belief that the question of weither a card can be played
arises when the card is in your hand not on the table.
Terra Incognita recognizes that Mata Hari is laibon only if she plays
it (which seems a little chicken vs. egg, but the logic does follow so
embrace it)
If that is not the case and the question arises on the table then you
could show your cards to other Meth by simply putting a card down that
is then recognized as unplayable
Matt
[ quoted text not captured ]
A fair point. I was simply trying to draw from the explanations in the
rulebook, and differentiating between you the player and you the
Methuselah. It seems some context must be assumed depending on the
text on each card. Due to the 'or she' in Mata Hari's text, it seems
to indicate that the "You" preceeding it pertains to cards that only
Methuselah's could play, otherwise there would be no point in putting
in the 'or she'. Mainly this is to allow the playing of sect/clan
master cards. Without the 'You' in the text, her ability would
function much like Advanced Kemintiri, who is restricted to minion
cards that she plays. Without the 'or she' in the text, it could then
be argued that you could then have Sanjo play Terra Incognita, which
would then open the door for a whole slew of cards to be played in
conjuction with the ability (Follow the Alpha, Ensemble, Blood Feast,
etc.).
Hmm, thinking on it some more, it could be perhaps more easily viewed
if we consider the 'or she' as a restriction. Because of that text, it
requires her to be the one playing the minion card (since those are
the only cards that she could play), despite you the player being the
one to play the card. This would leave Master and Event cards as cards
'you' play, in regards to her text. Without a similar "or he" to
Agaitas' text, this leaves it open to all cards you the player play.
Maybe I need to think more on my ramblings before writing them
down. :)
Chris, Thrall of Arika
On Apr 28, 4:11 pm, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com>
wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]> Chris, Thrall of Arika- Hide quoted text ->
> - Show quoted text -
Mata Hari can play Follow the Alpha once played she cannot tap to
enter combat
Ensemble and if you have untapped DoC you
may tap them for plus bleed
cannot play Blood Feast archbishop or better.
I agree with your point on "you". I wish that I had thought before
putting Agaitis in my post.
The sequince of playing a card w/ "mimic" effects is what I was trying
to understand.
Matt
On Apr 29, 9:14 am, matt...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 28, 4:11 pm, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com>> > A fair point. I was simply trying to draw from the explanations in the
> > rulebook, and differentiating between you the player and you the
> > Methuselah. It seems some context must be assumed depending on the
> > text on each card. Due to the 'or she' in Mata Hari's text, it seems
> > to indicate that the "You" preceeding it pertains to cards that only
> > Methuselah's could play, otherwise there would be no point in putting
> > in the 'or she'. Mainly this is to allow the playing of sect/clan
> > master cards. Without the 'You' in the text, her ability would
> > function much like Advanced Kemintiri, who is restricted to minion
> > cards that she plays. Without the 'or she' in the text, it could then
> > be argued that you could then have Sanjo play Terra Incognita, which
> > would then open the door for a whole slew of cards to be played in
> > conjuction with the ability (Follow the Alpha, Ensemble, Blood Feast,
> > etc.).> Mata Hari can play Follow the Alpha once played she cannot tap to> enter combat
> Ensemble and if you have untapped DoC you
> may tap them for plus bleed
> cannot play Blood Feast archbishop or better.
> I agree with your point on "you". I wish that I had thought before
> putting Agaitis in my post.
> The sequince of playing a card w/ "mimic" effects is what I was trying
> to understand.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not saying that the effects couldn't work
when Mata Hari plays those cards (depending on the card, of course). I
was following the similar context of another minion playing those
cards, and not being able to use Mata Hari as a diffent clan or sect.
If Mata Hari just finishes a combat, Enkidu couldn't Follow the Alpha
to enter combat with the opposing minion. She's a Ravnos, not an !
Gangrel.
If Sayshila bleeds with Ensemble, Mata Hari couldn't be tapped to add
to the bleed. She's a Ravnos, not a Daughter
If Sha Enu calls a Blood Feast, Mata Hari couldn't partake and gain a
blood. She's Independent, not Sabbat.
Though I do believe she would be able to play Follow the Alpha
herself. The card effects all occur at the time of play. The wording
is more explicit because it's not a normal rush kind of card, there's
no way to block Follow the Alpha. It just automatically puts the
minion into combat with the opposing minion of the previous combat.
Chris, Thrall of Arika
On Apr 29, 10:18 am, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com>
wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]> Chris, Thrall of Arika- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mata can play it, but FtA (etc.) will no longer recognize her as !
gangrel when the "as played window opens"
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "LSJ" <vtes...@white-wolf.com>
Date: Jul 20 2006, 4:05 am
Subject: Terra Incognita
To: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
Salem wrote:
> Acting meth A plays parity shift.> As it is played, B plays Forced Awakening (Before A replaces Parity Shift).> As Forced Awakening is played, A plays Approximation of Loyalty to
> cancel it.> Are either Meths supposed to replace cards yet?
No.
> I think we have moved on
> from the "as Parity Shift is played" step, since cards can't be played
> simultaneously.
No, we're still there. That's what "as played" accomplishes.
The cards are sequenced in that "as played" window, but it's still
that
window.
> So Parity Shift and Forced Awakening should be replaced
> by now. Or not?
Not.
> B then plays WakeWEF, urm, still as Parity shift is played? So that they
> can play the Rewind Time they have in their hand on, um, the Parity
> Shift, like they were trying to do all along. Or is it too late?
OK.
> At what point did things become not allowed to be played here? Never?
> Who should be replacing what when?
When everyone has finished playing effects in the "as played" window.
On Apr 29, 3:07 pm, matt...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 29, 10:18 am, Thrall of Arika <christopher.ack...@amec.com>> > Though I do believe she would be able to play Follow the Alpha
> > herself. The card effects all occur at the time of play. The wording
> > is more explicit because it's not a normal rush kind of card, there's
> > no way to block Follow the Alpha. It just automatically puts the
> > minion into combat with the opposing minion of the previous combat.
>
> > Chris, Thrall of Arika
>> Mata can play it, but FtA (etc.) will no longer recognize her as !
> gangrel when the "as played window opens"
FtA will treat Mata Hari as !Gangrel for the purposes of 1) playing
the card and 2) resolving the card. The current timing window is
irrelevent. No other card will suddenly begin treating Mata Hari as a !
Gangrel as a result of her playing this card.
1) means that she can play the card as if she meets the requirements.
2) means that if the card resolves (i.e., isn't canceled), she'll
enter combat with the opposing minion (in the case of Follow the
Alpha).
If a card, as part of its resolution, is put in play, its while-in-
play effects are not considered part of the card's resolution, and
thus do not treat Mata Hari as a sect or clan other than her actual
sect or clan (Independent Ravnos by default).
-witness1