My refresh-fu is strong; the preview was not there and then it was.
We get to see our first Teddybear card: Predator's Transformation.
Overall it looks like an interesting card, but there's a new icon and a
new card type: "Reflex":
Reflex: A minion can play a reflex card to cancel a specified kind of
card played against him as it is played. The minion need not be untapped
or even ready to play the reflex card. The cost of the card, if any, is
paid as normal, even for the reflex usage.
A few questions about this new and interesting cardtype:
* Could you, in theory, play a Reflex card on a Frenzy card played on
your own vampire? i.e. Battle Frenzy + Predator's Transformation on an
Osebo with Abombwe, just to cycle cards?
* Are Reflex cards repeatable? If a minion opposing Matata in combat
plays Drawing out the Beast, and Matata cancels it with Predator's
Transformation, but then later the opposing minion plays Rotschreck,
can Matata play Predator's Transformation as a Reflex again?
Jozxyqk wrote:
> Reflex: A minion can play a reflex card to cancel a specified kind of
> card played against him as it is played. The minion need not be untapped
> or even ready to play the reflex card. The cost of the card, if any, is
> paid as normal, even for the reflex usage.
>
> A few questions about this new and interesting cardtype:
>> * Could you, in theory, play a Reflex card on a Frenzy card [you] played on> your own vampire? i.e. Battle Frenzy + Predator's Transformation on an
> Osebo with Abombwe, just to cycle cards?
Of course. Battle Frenzy costs you an upcoming MPA and the ability to
play other OOT Masters, and some reflex cards have costs of their own,
so the "cycle" isn't exactly the usual form of cycling. More like
"cycling" a self-ousting Domain Challenge followed by a Bewitching
Oration to vote it down. No major harm done, but you've consumed some
(eventually renewable) resources.
> * Are Reflex cards repeatable? If a minion opposing Matata in combat
> plays Drawing out the Beast, and Matata cancels it with Predator's
> Transformation, but then later the opposing minion plays Rotschreck,
> can Matata play Predator's Transformation as a Reflex again?
A second copy? Of course. Contrast with card types with explicit
restrictions on repeatability given in rules -- with no restriction
given, there is no restriction, like Trap.
how come "predator's Transformation" has 3 uses (Reflex,AM,Combat) but
only uses 2 for the symbols in the top left? seems a bit odd. Just a
space thing?
Rob
The superior version can be interesting for Archons or other characters
imune to Blood Hunts. Maybe something is still to happen regarding this
aspect on LoB set.
.- Luis Duarte
Cooper wrote:
> Reflex,...
> so we are getting counter spells in Vampire? hmmm,...
Um, yeah. Sudden Reversal, Direct Intervention, Approximation of
Loyalty, Contingency Planning, Denial of Aphrodite's Favor, Disengage,
Emergency Preparations, Groundfighting, Iron Heart, Not to Be,
Pseudo-Blindness, Rewind Time, Shape Mastery, Tranquility, and now
Predator's Transformation.
[ quoted text not captured ]
There won't be any plain Reflex cards -- any reflex usage will just be
an alternative use to the card's main purpose/use. That, coupled with
the space concern and the cumbersomeness of having three icons there,
was sufficient.
In message <1129726514.8...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Cooper <wouter...@gmail.com> writes:
>so we are getting counter spells in Vampire? hmmm,...
We already have quite a few lurking around... Groundfighting,
Shapemastery, Tranquility, The Jones, Disengage etc.
Not all of them would translate exactly to Reflex cards, of course, but
the basic principle has been around for a while, even leaving aside
Rewind Time, Sudden Reversal and Direct Intervention.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
In message <1129729515.0...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
[ quoted text not captured ]
Laibon vampires can't be Archons. That's reserved for Camarilla
vampires. We also have no idea how the "Abombwe" discipline card will
work, which means that you'd need several nasty hacks to get around that
if it's restricted to Laibon vampires (for example).
It would also be really, really helpful if you could quote relevant
passages of the preceding post, using the "Show Options -> Reply"
function in Google. Currently, your posts don't appear without any
context for your comments.
[ quoted text not captured ]
James Coupe wrote:
> In message <1129729515.0...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis....@netcabo.pt> writes:
> >The superior version can be interesting for Archons or other characters
> >imune to Blood Hunts. Maybe something is still to happen regarding this
> >aspect on LoB set.
>
> Laibon vampires can't be Archons. That's reserved for Camarilla
> vampires. We also have no idea how the "Abombwe" discipline card will
> work, which means that you'd need several nasty hacks to get around that
> if it's restricted to Laibon vampires (for example).
Or one simple hack, based on what we've already seen: Matata plays Clan
Impersonation to the Camarilla clan of your choice (or equips with a
Writ of Acceptance), and then gets made an Archon by some appropriately
titled vampire. Voila, Camarilla vampire with ABO immune to Blood
Hunts.
> James Coupe
-John Flournoy
> In message <1129726514.8...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> Cooper <wouter...@gmail.com> writes:>> so we are getting counter spells in Vampire? hmmm,...>
> We already have quite a few lurking around... Groundfighting,
> Shapemastery, Tranquility, The Jones, Disengage etc.
>
> Not all of them would translate exactly to Reflex cards, of course, but
> the basic principle has been around for a while, even leaving aside
> Rewind Time, Sudden Reversal and Direct Intervention.
>
Not to mention Abandoning the Flesh, Crimson Fury, and Reform Body, which
all should have been Reflex cards.
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote:
> Not to mention Abandoning the Flesh, Crimson Fury, and Reform Body, which
> all should have been Reflex cards.
Um. None of those cancel a card played on the minion as it is played.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I'm very, very anxious about te other Abombwe cards... Just loved
Predator's Transformation...
Teddybear rulez! LoB will be awesome!
Cheers
Fabio Ciccone, Giovanni that can't wait for LoB pre-release
In message <1129732159....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, John
Flournoy <carn...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>James Coupe wrote:>> Laibon vampires can't be Archons. That's reserved for Camarilla
>> vampires. We also have no idea how the "Abombwe" discipline card will
>> work, which means that you'd need several nasty hacks to get around that
>> if it's restricted to Laibon vampires (for example).>
>Or one simple hack, based on what we've already seen: Matata plays Clan
>Impersonation to the Camarilla clan of your choice (or equips with a
>Writ of Acceptance), and then gets made an Archon by some appropriately
>titled vampire. Voila, Camarilla vampire with ABO immune to Blood
>Hunts.
The non-trivial part here is card-flow (you need the Clan Imp before the
vote is useful, and there isn't - that I can think of - a way of diving
for either type of card), and keeping a solid deck at the other end of
having to crow-bar in ABO-using vampires, Clan Impersonations and
Abombwe cards.
Matata, for example, doesn't cross-over well with a number of solid
political strategies - Animal Magnetism she could play, perhaps. In
other Archon/Rush decks, it's usually the case that the vampire selected
as the Archon crosses over well with the rest of the deck (e.g. Brujah
Princes electing a Brujah archon, and so on) which gives you a better
card flow when things go wrong.
Potentially, the Group 2 (Camarilla) Gangrel could work out okay here as
there are a couple of Princes who could cross-over with ANI/FOR, but
it's difficult to know.
And after that set-up, would it be better to just play four copies of
Kine Resources Contested in your Archon Rush deck instead?
[ quoted text not captured ]
That's right, but what about cards like Groundfighting,
Shapemastery, Tranquility, The Jones, Disengage etc., will they be
errataed/updated to Reflex cards?
Dan
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, LSJ wrote:
> You also forgot to mention what the definition should have been.
> And you forgot to attribute the quote you included. :-)
>
I usually only attribute quotes when I'm trying to make sure everyone
knows the name of the ass I'm talking to. :)
-Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
[ quoted text not captured ]
They do not fit the Reflex concept, as mentioned in the other thread.
All these cards are combat cards that cancel other combat cards or
cards played during combat (Tranquility), while Reflex gives the card
the ability, per example, of playing it twice as a reflex card even if
its main use is as an action modifier.
Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
In message <2005101911...@sidehack.gweep.net>, Gregory Stuart
Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.gweep.net> writes:
>I usually only attribute quotes when I'm trying to make sure everyone
>knows the name of the ass I'm talking to. :)
It is significantly easier if you quote who said what, as it makes
disentangling quotes significantly easier, as well as providing useful
context for a comment. This makes posts a lot easier to follow.
I'm not sure why people think that making their posts harder to follow
is a good idea.
[ quoted text not captured ]
James Coupe wrote:
> It would also be really, really helpful if you could quote relevant
> passages of the preceding post, using the "Show Options -> Reply"
> function in Google. Currently, your posts don't appear without any
> context for your comments.
Sometimes i Reply without quoting at the end of each post. This is
because i read the posts directly on Google Groups website which allow
this to happen.
But ok. I'll follow your advise.
.- Luis Duarte
[ quoted text not captured ]
There are many utilities to post newsgroups, and some have default
behavior that is not very good (although typically "good enough" or
even "preferred" when using that particular utility to then read the
newsgroup -- when used as a general marketing strategy, this strategy
is called embrace, extend, extinguish).
So, yes, if your news poster's default behavior is poor, then you
should not use the defaults.
For GoogleGroups, this means selecting "Show Options" and then
selecting "Reply" from there, since that Reply will quote context
whereas the default one, sadly, does not.
In message <1129742423....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Luis
Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis....@netcabo.pt> writes:
>Sometimes i Reply without quoting at the end of each post.
Imagine a thread in which you and I both responded to LSJ.
LSJ
|-----------|
Me You
If you post "I agree with that", many conventional news-readers will
show your post immediately after mine without necessarily showing the
thread tree.
If the posts after mine suddenly explode because someone says something
controversial, this can be very complicated. Even with Google, it can
be awkward to work out who said what with very long reference lines
going back to a post after a 100 post long sub-thread, and having to
load a new frame, making it hard to follow things side by side.
Additionally, some people X-No-Archive their posts (making it hard to
follow them later on Google), and other people nuke their posts (e.g. if
they're about to apply for a job where they're worried Google may be
searched for references to them). My experience of Google's interface
is that it's really astonishingly bad at pointing this out.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Screaming Vermillian <alexand...@gmail.com> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]> Abo?
I kinda like 'Cub' (as in 'cute little teddybear') or 'Bom' (as in
'Dom/Bom stealth bleed').
"tobiasopdenbr...@notsocoldmail.com" <tobiasop...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:1129736113.7...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> We need a good nickname for teddy. Abombwe won't do.
>
You can sing it to the tune of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight":
"A-bom-b-we, a-bom-b-we, De Leon[*] sleeps tonight"
[*] Isabel De Leon, that is, after being Rotschrecked and not able to cancel
it due to not having Abo.
- Pat, also wonders about all these beefy 9-caps with combat/rush bonuses
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, James Coupe wrote:
> In message <1129732159....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, John
> Flournoy <carn...@gmail.com> writes:>>
>> Or one simple hack, based on what we've already seen: Matata plays Clan
>> Impersonation to the Camarilla clan of your choice (or equips with a
>> Writ of Acceptance), and then gets made an Archon by some appropriately
>> titled vampire. Voila, Camarilla vampire with ABO immune to Blood
>> Hunts.
I think you'd be better off giving Muaziz a Trophy: Discipline: Abombwe.
>
> The non-trivial part here is card-flow (you need the Clan Imp before the
> vote is useful, and there isn't - that I can think of - a way of diving
> for either type of card), and keeping a solid deck at the other end of
> having to crow-bar in ABO-using vampires, Clan Impersonations and
> Abombwe cards.
>
Since you plan on burning minions anyway, Trophies fit in the deck and
you dont need to worry so much about drawing into your combo. You could
even play Predator's Transformation immediately after gaining Trophy:
Discipline: Abombwe.
-Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
In message <2005102000...@sidehack.gweep.net>, Gregory Stuart
Pettigrew <ethe...@sidehack.gweep.net> writes:
>On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, James Coupe wrote:
>>> In message <1129732159....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, John
>> Flournoy <carn...@gmail.com> writes:>>> Or one simple hack, based on what we've already seen: Matata plays Clan
>>> Impersonation to the Camarilla clan of your choice (or equips with a
>>> Writ of Acceptance), and then gets made an Archon by some appropriately
>>> titled vampire. Voila, Camarilla vampire with ABO immune to Blood
>>> Hunts.>
>I think you'd be better off giving Muaziz a Trophy: Discipline: Abombwe.
Neat trick. Does require some Red List-ing action going on, but since
you can search for the card on the burn after you've red listed them, it
does fix up a lot of the card flow issues. Now, who to usefully pair
Muaziz with for that, and what will the rest of Abombwe bring to the
deck (if anything)...
You know, I had money on Norm being the first one to suggest Trophies
along with Predator's Transformation. I guess I now owe myself some
money. Bah. I'll get cashback on the way to work.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 20 Oct 2005 06:31:01 -0700, "Emmit Svenson"
<emmits...@hotmail.com> scrawled:
[ quoted text not captured ]
earlier, james wrote:
"I'm not sure why people think that making their posts harder to
follow
is a good idea."
*sigh*
[ quoted text not captured ]
salem wrote:
> On 20 Oct 2005 06:31:01 -0700, "Emmit Svenson"
> <emmits...@hotmail.com> scrawled:
> >
> >salem wrote:
> >> it just is, ok?
> >> salem
> >> http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
> >> (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
> >
> >*What* just is? Quote for context, please.
>
> earlier, james wrote:
> "I'm not sure why people think that making their posts harder to
> follow
> is a good idea."
>
> *sigh*
>
Oh yeah, like you really thought *that* was a joke you wouldn't have to
explain. If it wasn't true, it wouldn't be funny. Ergo, if the joke
was funny, your post would be hard to follow, thus... ;)
Those of us that browse newsgroups using a tool that can properly
thread... we laughed.
On the other hand, I somehow suspect that Emmit was one those.
On 20 Oct 2005 18:57:12 -0700, "Chris Berger"
<ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> scrawled:
[ quoted text not captured ]
yeah, i really wasn't sure if he was playing along and just sort of
extending the joke, or, well, just needing it explained.
[ quoted text not captured ]
salem wrote:
> yeah, i really wasn't sure if he was playing along and just sort of
> extending the joke, or, well, just needing it explained.
[/straight man]
"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:1129859832.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> earlier, james wrote:
>> "I'm not sure why people think that making their posts harder to
>> follow is a good idea."
>>
>> *sigh*
>>> Oh yeah, like you really thought *that* was a joke you wouldn't have to
> explain. If it wasn't true, it wouldn't be funny. Ergo, if the joke
> was funny, your post would be hard to follow, thus... ;)
>
> Those of us that browse newsgroups using a tool that can properly
> thread... we laughed.
Actually though, I'm using one of the most common (Outlook). And it threads
just fine. Well, sometimes it actually doesn't keep threads straight when
I first look but I know how to 'repair' the display and make it line up a
thread pretty easily. Even so, it's often still very difficult to find a
previous post, depending on which order people posted things. There might
be a ton of intervening posts and you practically have to hold a ruler up to
the screen while your working the slider bar with the other hand to figure
it out. Really folks, at least a quote or two and an attribution helps a
*lot*!
Fred