rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Taming the Beast vs. Rotschreck

9 messages from 7 participants · 13 July 2009 – 15 July 2009
original thread on Google Groups

Jozxyqk

Here's the situation: Minion A is acting. In combat, he strikes Taming the Beast. Minion B strikes aggravated damge + Rotschreck. Can Minion A play an Abombwe reflex card to cancel the Rotschreck? The essential question here is, is the "cannot cancel frenzy cards" text a part of strike resolution, or immediate resolution of the card? Thanks. Card text: Taming the Beast Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Abombwe [abo] [REFLEX] Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is played. [abo] Strike: hand strike at +1 damage. This combat, this minion cannot cancel frenzy cards nor press to end. [ABO] As above, but strike: burn equipment. R�tschreck Cardtype: Master Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy. Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.

LSJ

Jozxyqk wrote: > Here's the situation: > Minion A is acting. In combat, he strikes Taming the Beast. > Minion B strikes aggravated damge + Rotschreck. > > Can Minion A play an Abombwe reflex card to cancel the Rotschreck? > > The essential question here is, is the "cannot cancel frenzy cards" > text a part of strike resolution, or immediate resolution of the > card? Strike. If it doesn't / hasn't yet resolved, then the effect isn't applied. [ quoted text not captured ]

cthulukitty

On Jul 13, 12:40 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Jozxyqk wrote: > > Here's the situation: > > Minion A is acting. In combat, he strikes Taming the Beast. > > Minion B strikes aggravated damge + Rotschreck. > > > Can Minion A play an Abombwe reflex card to cancel the Rotschreck? > > > The essential question here is, is the "cannot cancel frenzy cards" > > text a part of strike resolution, or immediate resolution of the > > card? > > Strike. If it doesn't / hasn't yet resolved, then the effect isn't applied. > > > > > Thanks. > > > Card text: > > Taming the Beast > > Cardtype: Combat > > Discipline: Abombwe > > [abo] [REFLEX] Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is played. > > [abo] Strike: hand strike at +1 damage. This combat, this minion cannot > > cancel frenzy cards nor press to end. > > [ABO] As above, but strike: burn equipment. > > > Rötschreck > > Cardtype: Master > > Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy. > > Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict > > aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully > > inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. > > This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap > > phase, burn this card. Strange. Many effects of strike cards are applied before the strike is resolved, such as the maneuver from Thrown Gate. How are we supposed to know which ones apply when? Jesse

LSJ

cthulukitty wrote: > On Jul 13, 12:40 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Jozxyqk wrote: >>> Minion A is acting. In combat, he strikes Taming the Beast. >>> Minion B strikes aggravated damge + Rotschreck. >>> Can Minion A play an Abombwe reflex card to cancel the Rotschreck? >>> The essential question here is, is the "cannot cancel frenzy cards" >>> text a part of strike resolution, or immediate resolution of the >>> card? >> Strike. If it doesn't / hasn't yet resolved, then the effect isn't applied. [please quote responsibly] > Strange. Many effects of strike cards are applied before the strike is > resolved, such as the maneuver from Thrown Gate. How are we supposed > to know which ones apply when? They all aren't applied before resolved, except when that rule is overridden by something else. Strike with maneuver has special rules described in the rulebook and is therefore handled the way the rulebook describes.

Shockwave

Side commentary: Is the Taming the Beast 'downside' in any way actually a downside then? How many Frenzy cards aside from Rotschreck are actually played after Strike resolution that the Abombwe user might want to cancel? By my quick reckoning... Battle Frenzy Terror Frenzy at ANI if the combat goes to the next round All the others can't be played. (I think)

henrik

[ quoted text not captured ] Not sure if there are any others, but really. First of all, there's the "nor press to end" part as well, which is another downside (even if that's not too big either). But smallness of the restrictions aside, we're talking about "abo: Strike: hand strike at +1 damage". It's not like it's broken or anything, so I'd say those two downsides are more than enough.

Jozxyqk

Shockwave <d_know...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Side commentary: > Is the Taming the Beast 'downside' in any way actually a downside > then? How many Frenzy cards aside from Rotschreck are actually played > after Strike resolution that the Abombwe user might want to cancel? By > my quick reckoning... The effect lasts for the remainder of combat, and this vamp can't press to end. So the opposing minion knows he can save his rotschreck for next round. (It's still not that big of a deal).

John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] Lots of other Abombwe cards, if you happen to be fighting with other ABO users. -John Flournoy

Juggernaut1981

[ quoted text not captured ] I think this situation with Rotschreck is more to do with the circumstances of playing Rotschreck. It has to appear with the Strike Declaration (i.e. before the strike effects are enacted) so Rotschreck appears before the strike's negatives get a chance to occur. With the other Frenzy cards, they either happen well before Strike Declaration or after it. So it stops people cancelling 2nd Round Frenzies.