Jyhad -- Pulled Fangs

Does anyone out there understand the Pulled Fangs card??? The first half seems to make some sense, and then it goes off into talking about things that make no sense to me (my personal belief is that this card is either a holdover from a previous incarnation of this game -- or that the person who wrote the card was smoking some pretty darn good stuff) -- anyway, if someone understands this card, please let the rest of us know what it means.... Ots

In article <ots.777588413@uicslth.csl.uiuc.edu>, ots@uicslth.csl.uiuc.edu (The Masked Koala Bear) wrote: > Does anyone out there understand the Pulled > Fangs card??? The first half seems to make > some sense, and then it goes off into > talking about things that make no sense to me > (my personal belief is that this card is > either a holdover from a previous incarnation > of this game -- or that the person who > wrote the card was smoking some pretty > darn good stuff) -- anyway, if someone > understands this card, please let the rest > of us know what it means.... Well, since you didn't say specifically what was confusing you, let's go through it and find out... "Usable by a minion who inflicts more damage at close range than the victim vampire." Fair enough; it can only be used at close range, and you have to do more damage than the opponent. It also can't be used on allies, only on vampires, but allies can use it. "Pulled Fangs inflicts 1 aggravated damage, and the victim cannot hunt." Pretty self-explanatory. "Any vampire may burn this card by taking two actions, which would be at +1 stealth." In other words, if the lucky victim vampire wants to be able to hunt again, said victim first has to spend two actions saying "I'm trying to get my fangs back". Since each vampire only gets one action per turn, this means that the poor vampire is going to be doing nothing for at least two turns, unless you have some card that lets it untap and take another action on the first turn (Freak Drive, for example). Each of these actions is at +1 stealth, which means that other vampires can't block them without some sort of intercept-raising ability. "If the victim must hunt, it instead goes to torpor." This is the true evil of this card. Let's say that you knock the victim down to zero blood with your attack, then use Pulled Fangs to send it to torpor. It has no blood, so it cannot pull itself out of torpor. If some other vampire rescues it from torpor, it still has no blood, so under the rules, its next action must be to attempt to hunt. But it can't hunt, because its fangs are still pulled, so it immediately goes back to torpor again. Ouch. Barring some ability that lets you put more blood on the vampire, this vampire is _never_ getting out of torpor; its controller may as well diablerize it. "Not usable by a vampire going to torpor or by a dying ally." Makes sense to me; you're probably not going to be able to pull out your opponent's fangs when you've already lost consciousness... So where's the confusing part? -- \o\ Internet: phaedrus@halcyon.com AppleLink: CURO.TECH \o\ \o\ If you're interested in books/stories with transformation \o\ >o>themes, or "furry"/anthropomorphic art, email me, or ftp >o> /o/ to ftp.halcyon.com and check the /local/phaedrus directory. /o/ /o/ Web users: Try http://www.halcyon.com/phaedrus/Menu.html /o/

In article <ots.777588413@uicslth.csl.uiuc.edu>, ots@uicslth.csl.uiuc.edu (The Masked Koala Bear) wrote: > Does anyone out there understand the Pulled > Fangs card??? The first half seems to make > some sense, and then it goes off into > talking about things that make no sense to me > (my personal belief is that this card is > either a holdover from a previous incarnation > of this game -- or that the person who > wrote the card was smoking some pretty > darn good stuff) -- anyway, if someone > understands this card, please let the rest > of us know what it means.... Well, since you didn't say specifically what was confusing you, let's go through it and find out... "Usable by a minion who inflicts more damage at close range than the victim vampire." Fair enough; it can only be used at close range, and you have to do more damage than the opponent. It also can't be used on allies, only on vampires, but allies can use it. "Pulled Fangs inflicts 1 aggravated damage, and the victim cannot hunt." Pretty self-explanatory. "Any vampire may burn this card by taking two actions, which would be at +1 stealth." In other words, if the lucky victim vampire wants to be able to hunt again, said victim first has to spend two actions saying "I'm trying to get my fangs back". Since each vampire only gets one action per turn, this means that the poor vampire is going to be doing nothing for at least two turns, unless you have some card that lets it untap and take another action on the first turn (Freak Drive, for example). Each of these actions is at +1 stealth, which means that other vampires can't block them without some sort of intercept-raising ability. "If the victim must hunt, it instead goes to torpor." This is the true evil of this card. Let's say that you knock the victim down to zero blood with your attack, then use Pulled Fangs to send it to torpor. It has no blood, so it cannot pull itself out of torpor. If some other vampire rescues it from torpor, it still has no blood, so under the rules, its next action must be to attempt to hunt. But it can't hunt, because its fangs are still pulled, so it immediately goes back to torpor again. Ouch. Barring some ability that lets you put more blood on the vampire, this vampire is _never_ getting out of torpor; its controller may as well diablerize it. "Not usable by a vampire going to torpor or by a dying ally." Makes sense to me; you're probably not going to be able to pull out your opponent's fangs when you've already lost consciousness... So where's the confusing part? :) -- \o\ Internet: phaedrus@halcyon.com AppleLink: CURO.TECH \o\ \o\ If you're interested in books/stories with transformation \o\ >o>themes, or "furry"/anthropomorphic art, email me, or ftp >o> /o/ to ftp.halcyon.com and check the /local/phaedrus directory. /o/ /o/ Web users: Try http://www.halcyon.com/phaedrus/Menu.html /o/

Owen P Reynolds <owen@iastate.edu> wrote: >> "Usable by a minion who inflicts more damage at close range than the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>victim vampire." Fair enough; it can only be used at close range, and you >>have to do more damage than the opponent. > A few things confused me too: when do I use it? After damage is dealt? >Do I have to be at close range? (the card does not say this... The card does say this, actually. >Can I use it after a dodge? (for example I do two hand damage and dodge, Stop right there. If you dodge, then that's your strike; you can't dodge *and* inflict hand damage unless you have additional strikes. Normally, a dodging vampire will by definition not be inflicting more damage than the would-be victim. >while my opponent does 1 aggravated hand damage. I do more close range >damage -- I just didn't happen to right now.) You didn't actually inflict more damage, so you don't get to use Pulled Fangs. It just cares about actual damage, not potential damage. > But can it replace it's own fangs while in torpor? The rule on the >card takes priority over the rule that you can only try to leave torpor >once in it. Or does "any vampire" only mean "any ready vampire"? The card doesn't say the vampire can take actions while in torpor to get its fangs back, so you can't do it. > It makes sense you can lay quite and regrow fangs. Well, that's not what the card says. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

I guess my point about Pulled Fangs is that it's part of a DeckMaster game, and WotC should know by now to word things clearly and precisely. Pulled Fangs has a gaping hole in it (pun,) and is hard to understand even if you want to play by the spirit of the card. It's a combat card, isn't a strike, and only says this about how to use it: + "Usable by a minion who inflicts more damage at close range than the +victim vampire." Gaping hole: Suppose Angus McKensie (does two hand damage) is blocked by Bob with a deer rifle. During the "choose range" part of combat, I play Pulled Fangs on Bob, which does a point of agravated damage to him and saves Angus from getting shot. I can play combat cards during "choose range," and Angus is "a minion who inflicts more damage at close range than Bob." If you want to play the card as written, this looks legal to me. More minor stuff: What if two regular vampires slug it out a close range and one plays and extra strike card? After his second strike, he'll have done 2 points of damage to his victim's one. Can he then use pulled fangs? How about if we each do a point and I then play a press and lucky blow (which I just drew)? I've done 3 to my opponent's 2. I think the card means you have to have actually inflicted more damage at close range, but it's not clear whether it's in the current strike, the current round or the whole combat. The card should have said: "Play after a strike phase at close range in which the acting minion inflicted more damage than the victim vampire." --

Owen P Reynolds <owen@iastate.edu> wrote: > It's a combat card, isn't a strike, and only says this about how to >use it: >+ "Usable by a minion who inflicts more damage at close range than the >+victim vampire." > Gaping hole: > Suppose Angus McKensie (does two hand damage) is blocked by Bob with >a deer rifle. During the "choose range" part of combat, I play Pulled >Fangs on Bob, which does a point of agravated damage to him and saves >Angus from getting shot. > I can play combat cards during "choose range," and Angus is "a minion >who inflicts more damage at close range than Bob." If you want to play the >card as written, this looks legal to me. In general, you can play combat cards then, yes. But with Pulled Fangs, you won't know whether your minion has dealt more damage than the other one until after the strike step, so you can't use PF during choose range. I'm pretty sure PF only counts damage actually inflicted, rather than potential damage. > What if two regular vampires slug it out a close range and one plays >and extra strike card? After his second strike, he'll have done 2 points >of damage to his victim's one. Can he then use pulled fangs? Using your hands counts as your strike. You can't play an extra strike card unless you have additional strikes. I *think* Pulled Fangs would wait until the press step to count up how much damage had been inflicted... am checking on that. Agree that this is an icky card from a rules viewpoint. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

A vampire with one blood left blocks a two hand damage vampire. The results are one blood loss by the acting vampire and two blood loss by the blocking vampire, resulting in torpor. What happens if a Pulled Fangs is played at this time? Is the vampire burned, or does it go to torpor without any fangs? Can other vampires (it reads "any vampire") use actions to help it grow its fangs? Rob

aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: >Using your hands counts as your strike. You can't play an extra strike >card unless you have additional strikes. Excuse me? "How do I get extra strikes?" "You play an extra strike card." "OK, I play a card that gives me three strikes" "You can't do that, you have to have additional strikes." "How do I get extra strikes?" etc. etc. Perhaps a clarification is in order here? >Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for >aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc. -- | kreme@netcom.com \ 1015 South Gaylord, Denver, CO 80209 #100 | | PGP Fingerprint \ 1D 5E F7 C8 7E C2 F9 87 0F 86 C9 B0 D2 63 9C B2 | | [303/722-2009] Vox \ Maximum Aisle: "State of the art in long-term | | [303/777-2911] Data \ incarceration." Convicts Union Local #2134 |

In article <kremeCv4GI5.IHJ@netcom.com> kreme@netcom.com (Cerebus The Aardvark) writes: >>aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: >>>Using your hands counts as your strike. You can't play an extra strike >>>card unless you have additional strikes. >> >>Excuse me? >> "How do I get extra strikes?" >> "You play an extra strike card." >> "OK, I play a card that gives me three strikes" >> "You can't do that, you have to have additional strikes." >> "How do I get extra strikes?" >> etc. etc. Here's how it works: Tom's statement gains clarity when you think of it like this: 'You can't play an extra 'strike card' unless you have additional strikes. You can get 'additional strikes' by playing an 'additional strike' card.' So there are two things here: Cards (and built-in features) that are 'strikes'. They say 'Strike: Cream Pie' or whatever. Cards (and built-in features) that give 'additional strikes'. They say something like '2 additional strikes'. Unless something gives you 'additional strikes', you may only choose one 'strike' in a round of combat. Hope this helps... Josh Bluestein wabe@ftp.com

Rob Watkins <robertw@calvin.usc.edu> wrote: >A vampire with one blood left blocks a two hand damage vampire. The >results are one blood loss by the acting vampire and two blood loss by the >blocking vampire, resulting in torpor. What happens if a Pulled Fangs >is played at this time? Is the vampire burned, or does it go to torpor >without any fangs? Can other vampires (it reads "any vampire") use actions >to help it grow its fangs? Pulled Fangs isn't usable until the end of the round. But since a vampire went to torpor, you never get to the end of the round, so Pulled Fangs isn't usable. Sounds odd on the face of it, but I think Pulled Fangs pretty much has to work this way. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Cerebus The Aardvark (kreme@netcom.com) blatantly claims: : aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: : >Using your hands counts as your strike. You can't play an extra strike : >card unless you have additional strikes. : Excuse me? : "How do I get extra strikes?" : "You play an extra strike card." : "OK, I play a card that gives me three strikes" : "You can't do that, you have to have additional strikes." : "How do I get extra strikes?" : etc. etc. : Perhaps a clarification is in order here? Clarification as I see it: Tom saying "Using your hands", meaning 'to have your minion combat using hands as a weapon', not 'playing a card from your hand of library cards'. -- zot@netcom.com world-wide-web-page at ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/zot/zot.html "Some people just don't like to celebrate human tragedy while on vacation."

Joshua Bluestein (wabe@ftp.com) wrote: : In article <kremeCv4GI5.IHJ@netcom.com> kreme@netcom.com (Cerebus The Aardvark) writes: : >>aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: : >>>Using your hands counts as your strike. You can't play an extra strike : >>>card unless you have additional strikes. : >> : >>Excuse me? : >> "How do I get extra strikes?" : >> "You play an extra strike card." : >> "OK, I play a card that gives me three strikes" : >> "You can't do that, you have to have additional strikes." : >> "How do I get extra strikes?" : >> etc. etc. Fools, all of you! Including Mr. Wylie Coyote for not explaining it better. Use your strike to play your additional strike card. Sort of like using your only wish to wish for more wishes.

Joshua Bluestein (wabe@ftp.com) wrote: : In article <kremeCv4GI5.IHJ@netcom.com> kreme@netcom.com (Cerebus The Aardvark) writes: : >>aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: : >>>Using your hands counts as your strike. You can't play an extra strike : >>>card unless you have additional strikes. : >> : >>Excuse me? : >> "How do I get extra strikes?" : >> "You play an extra strike card." : >> "OK, I play a card that gives me three strikes" : >> "You can't do that, you have to have additional strikes." : >> "How do I get extra strikes?" : >> etc. etc. Actually, let me rephrase my last post. Most additional strike cards are minion cards which can be played during ANY of your turns before an actual combat. You do NOT have to wait for combat to give your minion an additional strike. If you do, then play it either before combat starts or during your strike, AS your strike. In this case, press him and deal two strikes on his punk ass next round.

Merrill Brick <mb7553@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> wrote: >Actually, let me rephrase my last post. Most additional strike cards are >minion cards which can be played during ANY of your turns before an >actual combat... All of the additional strike cards have the little combat symbol on them, meaning they can only be used during a combat, whether it's your turn or someone else's. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.