Agent of Shock (LSJ)

Just wondering if u can use Agent of Power's for the discipline cards req'd for Shock Troops? I assume u can as it is a "master: discipline" card If so, what happens ? I assume that AoPs unique status is irrelevant, but can I then choose the babies's innate disciplines, or r they disciplineless? I'm typing this on my phone, so sorry no card text... As a quick aside, has shock troops ever been made into a (successful!) deck, and if so, how? Mass rushing or bloating? Thanks

On Jul 21, 9:28 am, technobabble66 <stujaq...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Just wondering if u can use Agent of Power's for the discipline cards > req'd for Shock Troops? Yes: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/vtes-rules/message/254?var=1 . > I assume u can as it is a "master: discipline" card > > If so, what happens ? > I assume that AoPs unique status is irrelevant, but can I then choose > the babies's innate disciplines, or r they disciplineless? Disciplineless. The whole cardtext is skipped (which means the card used doesn't burn, if your plan was to reuse it later). [ quoted text not captured ]

Disciplineless? While AoP doesn't hv a pre-set discipline, ST uses the text not the name of regular master: discipline cards to dictate the troops' skills. So why would the text of AoP be ignored? Surely the text is reviewed as the AoP enters play as a trooper - text says choose it yourself, so u can select the troopers innate discipline...

[ quoted text not captured ] See the link Floppy provided, or see this more verbose post: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/d58bfae8682f6845

[ quoted text not captured ] > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/d58b... I've read the 2 referred links. If this is an arbitrary decision, then i guess i'd obviously have to accept that. However, i kinda fail to see the precise line of reasoning. "Regular" Discipline cards say this vamp gains 1 level of X. AoP say you choose X and the vamp gains 1 level of it. It just seems like you (LSJ) could just as easily use the exact same argument to say that regular discpline cards specify the particular skill and AoP allows the meth to specify the particular skill. IE: it's not necessarily "indeterminate" and that's all there is. AoP actually says its simply up to the meth to determine at that time. Apologies if i'm being obtuse, but there seems to be incomplete reasoning in denying AoP as a proper discipline card. Auspex Master Master: Discipline. Put this card on a vampire. This vampire gains 1 level of Auspex . Capacity increases by 1: the vampire is one generation older. Cannot be placed on a vampire with superior Auspex. Agent of Power Master Master: Discipline. Trifle. Unique. Put this card on a vampire you control and choose a Discipline. This vampire gains 1 level of that Discipline. Burn this card during your discard phase. Shock Troops Master Master. Requires a ready archbishop, cardinal or regent. Put X Master: Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards represent clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in play. These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are created, have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or political actions.

On Jul 21, 4:52 pm, technobabble66 <stujaq...@hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 21, 11:34 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > On Jul 21, 4:01 am, technobabble66 <stujaq...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > Disciplineless? > > > While AoP doesn't hv a pre-set discipline, ST uses the text not the > > > name of regular master: discipline cards to dictate the troops' > > > skills. So why would the text of AoP be ignored? Surely the text is > > > reviewed as the AoP enters play as a trooper - text says choose it > > > yourself, so u can select the troopers innate discipline... > > > See the link Floppy provided, or see this more verbose post: > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/d58b... > > I've read the 2 referred links. If this is an arbitrary decision, then > i guess i'd obviously have to accept that. However, i kinda fail to > see the precise line of reasoning. > "Regular" Discipline cards say this vamp gains 1 level of X. AoP say > you choose X and the vamp gains 1 level of it. > It just seems like you (LSJ) could just as easily use the exact same > argument to say that regular discpline cards specify the particular > skill and AoP allows the meth to specify the particular skill. > IE: it's not necessarily "indeterminate" and that's all there is. AoP > actually says its simply up to the meth to determine at that time. > > Apologies if i'm being obtuse, but there seems to be incomplete > reasoning in denying AoP as a proper discipline card. AoP is a proper discipline card (per cardtext). I think the idea is that, unlike "Necromancy", "Quietus" or "Thaumaturgy", the discpline AoP awards isn't specified until it is played. And with Shock Troops, the card doesn't get played - it's merely put in play as a vampire, instead of what it truly is. I suppose the cards aren't put in play face-down so that anyone can track what's going on ("which discipline did that one have ?") and avoid confusion with other face-down cards. Rulings for Absimiliard's Army (which is pretty much the same): http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/d49c097e76c101cc http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/78e740c2a89083e8