(LSJ) Derange and Mask of 1000 Faces

Hello, My Korah attempts to Derange Smudge the Ignored (to make him a malkavian antitribu). Can my Gilbert Duane play Mask of a 1000 Faces during this action, if I ever change my mind and want to turn Smudge into a regular malkavian ? I would say "yes" because both Korah and Gilbert can play Derange; on the other hand Gilbert cannot play "Derange to turn Smudge into a malkavian antitribu", so maybe the answer would be "no".... So which is it ? :) Thank you, Francois

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:04:19 -0000, François <francoi...@gmail.com> wrote: >Hello, Good afternoon. >My Korah attempts to Derange Smudge the Ignored (to make him a >malkavian antitribu). Can my Gilbert Duane play Mask of a 1000 Faces >during this action, if I ever change my mind and want to turn Smudge >into a regular malkavian ? No. Korah is playing the Derange with the intent of making the target Malkavian Antitribu. No vampire that is not also Malkavian Antitribu can take over the action. See also: http://www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR6-23.htm RTR 23-JUN-1998 Mask of a Thousand Faces: Cannot be used to mask an action if the Masking vampire is not capable of taking that action, nor if any action modifiers have been played on this action that could not have been played if the Masking vampire were the acting minion.

The Lasombra wrote: > On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:04:19 -0000, François > <francoi...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello, > > Good afternoon. > >> My Korah attempts to Derange Smudge the Ignored (to make him a >> malkavian antitribu). Can my Gilbert Duane play Mask of a 1000 Faces >> during this action, if I ever change my mind and want to turn Smudge >> into a regular malkavian ? > > No. > > Korah is playing the Derange with the intent of making the target > Malkavian Antitribu. No vampire that is not also Malkavian Antitribu > can take over the action. Correct. The terms are stated when the action is announced. [ quoted text not captured ]

Extra question: Korah plays her Derange on Smudge. Mata Hari plays Mask of 1K Faces on the action. Can she decide to make the Derange a "Malkavian Derange" instead of a "!Malkavian Derange"? It does not seem incompatible with the RTR 23-JUN-1998 ruling.

[ quoted text not captured ] But it is incompatible with the statement: "The terms are stated when the action is announced. " Korah can't announce a cammie derange, ergo Mata Hari can only take over the action to make a sabbat malk.

[ quoted text not captured ] no, not quite correct. Whilst Mata Hari can play Derange, she Derange's people to Ravnos - because of the card text on Derange, "The vampire with this card is considered to be the same clan as the acting vampire". Although Mata Hari is playing Derange as if she were Malk or !Malk she as the acting vampire is still Ravnos. As a corollary to the above, at the moment she can't Mask a Derange action, or have anyone Mask her Derange action.

[ quoted text not captured ] Incorrect. See: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b6229020c24ab070 "No. She could play Derange as a Malk to turn a vampire into a Malk. Or she could play it as a !Malk to turn a vampire into a !Malk." witness1

On Aug 13, 2:02 pm, witness1 <jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net> wrote: > On Aug 13, 1:54 pm, stan...@hotmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 13, 5:16 am, Jeroen <joen_...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 13 aug, 11:11, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Extra question: > > > > Korah plays her Derange on Smudge. Mata Hari plays Mask of 1K Faces on > > > > the action. Can she decide to make the Derange a "Malkavian Derange" > > > > instead of a "!Malkavian Derange"? > > > > > It does not seem incompatible with the RTR 23-JUN-1998 ruling. > > > > But it is incompatible with the statement: > > > > "The terms are stated when the action is announced. " > > > > Korah can't announce a cammie derange, ergo Mata Hari can only take > > > over the action to make a sabbat malk. > > > no, not quite correct. Whilst Mata Hari can play Derange, she > > Derange's people to Ravnos - because of the card text on Derange, "The > > vampire with this card is considered to be the same clan as the acting > > vampire". Although Mata Hari is playing Derange as if she were Malk > > or !Malk she as the acting vampire is still Ravnos. As a corollary to > > the above, at the moment she can't Mask a Derange action, or have > > anyone Mask her Derange action. > > Incorrect. See: > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b622... > > "No. She could play Derange as a Malk to turn a vampire into a Malk. > Or she could play it as a !Malk to turn a vampire into a !Malk." > > witness1- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - really? that seems counterintuitive. ah well, LSJ said it so I can't argue with that ... well perhaps I can. That seems counterintuitive.

[ quoted text not captured ] She plays the action card as a Malk. So she performs the action as a Malk. See also any ally playing (as a vampire) an action card that refers to "this vampire".