NRA rule queytion: Force of Will

Can a minion bleed with Force of Will after a normal bleeding action earlier on the same turn? If the answer is no, doesn't that make Force of Will pretty much useless? Going to torpor for a +1/+2 bleeding action isn't really worth it, is it? I mean, if I can't use the card to bleed twice (i.e. if my first action can't be a bleeding action), I'd be much better off with a Computer Hacking/Govern the Unaligned/whatever followed by Freak Drive and another action. Michael

mostly harmless wrote: > > Can a minion bleed with Force of Will after a normal bleeding action > earlier on the same turn? Given the "NRA" assumption hidden in the subject line, no, per explicit text of the NRA rule. > If the answer is no, doesn't that make Force of Will pretty much useless? > Going to torpor for a +1/+2 bleeding action isn't really worth it, is it? I > mean, if I can't use the card to bleed twice (i.e. if my first action can't > be a bleeding action), I'd be much better off with a Computer Hacking/Govern > the Unaligned/whatever followed by Freak Drive and another action. If you've got FOR/DOM, yes, GtU and Freak might be a better alternative. If you've got ANI/FOR, though, Force of Will shines a little better. Or just use it for surprise value (that you don't get with Freak). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In message <ch0F7.368970$PV1.7...@news.chello.at>, mostly harmless <mostlyh...@chello.atNOSPAM!> writes: >Can a minion bleed with Force of Will after a normal bleeding action >earlier on the same turn? No, by virtue of it being a bleeding action. >If the answer is no, doesn't that make Force of Will pretty much useless? No. Do a different action first. You don't just have to bleed and bleed and bleed. Decks are allowed to do more than one thing. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D EBD690ECD7A1F If I had a dick, I'd go get laid. We can do the B457CA213D7E6 next best thing. Let's kill people. Oh, not *you*. 68C3695D623D5D

Mostly Harmless wrote: >>If the answer is no, doesn't that make Force of Will pretty much useless?>> Not at all. Sure, the Ventrue have Dominate to bleed with, but what about the Gangrel or Ravanos? If you have access to other types of bleeds, sure, FoW might seem not that good of a deal, but it gets you more actions out of your minions, has good surprise value, and gives strong bleeding capabilities to a normally bleed free discipline. A not that uncommon deck type is the mostly Fortitude deck that can actually do quite a bit of damage--Minion Tap your vampire with FOR down to 1 blood; Restore to gain 3 blood; FoW to bleed for 3 while Daring the Dawn (lose 2 blood and fall into torpor); untap with Freak Drive or Movement of the Slow Body (the first costs a blood, the second gains you a blood); Rapid Heal (gain a blood). You have now bled someone for 3 unblockably, ended with a vampire with as much blood as when they started out, and gained a bunch of pool off the Minion Tap. And you can't get beat up, as you have Fortitude. >>Going to torpor for a +1/+2 bleeding action isn't really worth it, is it? I mean, if I can't use the card to bleed twice (i.e. if my first action can't be a bleeding action), I'd be much better off with a Computer Hacking/Govern the Unaligned/whatever followed by Freak Drive and another action.>> Only if you have Dominate. Clans that have Fortitude and no significant bleed modifying disciplines have few bleeding options, and FoW is probably the strongest. Heck, using the right vampires, the Nosferatu can make a viable S+B deck using Force of Will. Hey! That gives me an idea for a newsletter... Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/bakija6 "...and the only person I can stand to be around is a neutered vampire who cheats at kitten poker!" -Buffy

"mostly harmless" <mostlyh...@chello.atNOSPAM!> wrote in message news:ch0F7.368970$PV1.7...@news.chello.at... [ quoted text not captured ] For those decks that can get out of torpor quickly, like using Freak Drive/Movement of the Slow Body and Rapid Healing it's pretty good although not without it's risks. It's particualrly useful when your prey taps out or uses wakes to block when he thinks are your last actions for the turn only to get bled by Force of Will and not have any blockers left. FoW also goes well with Day Operatioin, you're going to go to torpor anyway so you may as well make it unblockable. The +2 bleed at sup is handy too if you don't have access to other bleed modifiers. Like you said, you're better off with Computer Hacking if you just want the + bleed. FoW is also particularly handy when you have a minion with a Heart of Darkness which can convert the agg damage to non-agg.