Ousting a player and do things (LSJ)

Hello Scott, Here are a couple of questions about what happens / what is allowed to be played when a player is ousted. 1/ I block my predator's Famous vampire. My predator is on 2 pool. In the resulting combat, my predator's vampire is sent to torpor. My predator is ousted, but can I play Cats' Guidance ? If I can, can someone play Direct Intervention on it ? (put in other terms - whose turn are we in ?) 2/ During some other player's turn, I use my Malkavian vampire to oust that player. Can I tap the malkavian's Helicopter ? 3/ During the player whose turn we are in, I oust her by burning her Ossian while Tension in the ranks is in play. Can I retrieve the Trophies ? 4/ Frederick is Red List, we are in his controler's turn (she's on 1 pool). I burn Frederick with agg + Amaranth. Is the Blood Hunt conducted ?

floppyzedolfin wrote: > Hello Scott, > > Here are a couple of questions about what happens / what is allowed to > be played when a player is ousted. > > 1/ I block my predator's Famous vampire. My predator is on 2 pool. In > the resulting combat, my predator's vampire is sent to torpor. My > predator is ousted, but can I play Cats' Guidance ? Yes. > If I can, can someone play Direct Intervention on it ? (put in other > terms - whose turn are we in ?) Yes. The turn of the acting Methuselah. > 2/ During some other player's turn, I use my Malkavian vampire to oust > that player. Can I tap the malkavian's Helicopter ? Yes. > 3/ During the player whose turn we are in, I oust her by burning her > Ossian while Tension in the ranks is in play. Can I retrieve the > Trophies ? Yes. > 4/ Frederick is Red List, we are in his controler's turn (she's on 1 > pool). I burn Frederick with agg + Amaranth. Is the Blood Hunt > conducted ? Yes.

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > floppyzedolfin wrote: > > Hello Scott, > > > > Here are a couple of questions about what happens / what is allowed to > > be played when a player is ousted. > > > > 1/ I block my predator's Famous vampire. My predator is on 2 pool. In > > the resulting combat, my predator's vampire is sent to torpor. My > > predator is ousted, but can I play Cats' Guidance ? > Yes. [and yes to similar questions] Why is this so? If a Methuselah is ousted on his own turn in the middle of an action, I would think that there is no longer an action; it immediately should end, similar to as if Kiss of Ra were played (which explicitly prevents Cats Guidance because "the action ends"). That's just my opinion, but I'm interested in the reasoning behind the "yes" answers. Thanks!

[ quoted text not captured ] You still get wrap-up if the acting minion is unreadied (or even burned via amaranth). The blocking minion can still play Cats' Guidance, for example. Similar here.

[ quoted text not captured ] > Similar here. So the active Methuselah's turn continues even after he's ousted, even if there is an entire action to resolve? Example: Methuselah A controls Gilbert Duane and a Madness Network. Methuselah B has 1 pool and an untapped ready Frederick the Weak who has 0 blood, and Yawp Court. Tension in the Ranks is in play. It is Methuselah B's turn. Gilbert (via the MadNet) calls Consanguineous Boon. Methuselah B taps his Yawp Court, choosing Frederick to get into combat with Gilbert. The vampires exchange hands for 1. Frederick goes to torpor, therefore ousting his controller, whose turn it is. The action continues. Correct? Does Gilbert's controller gain the 6 pool for ousting before the referendum continues? Is it still Methuselah B's minion phase even though Methuselah B is ousted?

[ quoted text not captured ] No. But there is "wrap-up". > Example: > Methuselah A controls Gilbert Duane and a Madness Network. > Methuselah B has 1 pool and an untapped ready Frederick the Weak who has 0 blood, > and Yawp Court. > Tension in the Ranks is in play. > > It is Methuselah B's turn. > Gilbert (via the MadNet) calls Consanguineous Boon. > Methuselah B taps his Yawp Court, choosing Frederick to get into combat with > Gilbert. > The vampires exchange hands for 1. > Frederick goes to torpor, therefore ousting his controller, whose turn it is. > > The action continues. Correct? Sure. > Does Gilbert's controller gain the 6 pool for ousting before the referendum > continues? The predator of the ousted Methuselah gains pool and VP immediately. > Is it still Methuselah B's minion phase even though Methuselah B is > ousted? Whose else?

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >You still get wrap-up if the acting minion is unreadied (or even burned >via amaranth). The blocking minion can still play Cats' Guidance, for >example. I disagree. Being unready is one thing, but no longer being controlled is another. # If the Methuselah loses control of the acting minion before the action is successful, then the action ends. [RTR 19970630] It's not immediately obvious how this interacts with block combats (which are a different form of resolution, but the idea of block combat being resolution - just failed resolution - wasn't quite such a big thing back in 1997, I don't think). However, it seems a bit unintuitive that losing control at one point in the action "ends" the action, and losing control at a different point wouldn't. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > Example: > > Methuselah A controls Gilbert Duane and a Madness Network. > > Methuselah B has 1 pool and an untapped ready Frederick the Weak who has 0 blood, > > and Yawp Court. > > Tension in the Ranks is in play. > > > > It is Methuselah B's turn. > > Gilbert (via the MadNet) calls Consanguineous Boon. > > Methuselah B taps his Yawp Court, choosing Frederick to get into combat with > > Gilbert. > > The vampires exchange hands for 1. > > Frederick goes to torpor, therefore ousting his controller, whose turn it is. > > > > The action continues. Correct? > Sure. > > Is it still Methuselah B's minion phase even though Methuselah B is > > ousted? > Whose else? OK, now suppose Gilbert's political action was Reins of Power, where the predator/prey relationship is important. Is it true to say that Methuselah A has a new prey (Methuselah C) despite performing an action which is happening during his old prey's (Methuselah B's) turn, which acknowledges that Methuselah B still exists in some way? That's ... odd.

On Feb 9, 2:07 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > >You still get wrap-up if the acting minion is unreadied (or even burned > >via amaranth). The blocking minion can still play Cats' Guidance, for > >example. > > I disagree. Being unready is one thing, but no longer being controlled > is another. > > # If the Methuselah loses control of the acting minion before the > action is successful, then the action ends. [RTR 19970630] > > It's not immediately obvious how this interacts with block combats > (which are a different form of resolution, but the idea of block combat > being resolution - just failed resolution - wasn't quite such a big > thing back in 1997, I don't think). > > However, it seems a bit unintuitive that losing control at one point in > the action "ends" the action, and losing control at a different point > wouldn't. You can still play Cat's Guidance after using Amaranth to burn the acting minion, though. I think once you get to resolution (successful or not), the "cleanup" becomes independent of the acting minion's status. -witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] It acknowledges no such thing. Like playing Cats' Guidance after Amaranth doesn't acknowledge the existence of an acting minion.

James Coupe wrote: > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> You still get wrap-up if the acting minion is unreadied (or even burned >> via amaranth). The blocking minion can still play Cats' Guidance, for >> example. > > I disagree. Being unready is one thing, but no longer being controlled > is another. > > # If the Methuselah loses control of the acting minion before the > action is successful, then the action ends. [RTR 19970630] Perhaps. See also Amaranth and blood hunt. (The blood hunt is still conducted even though the acting minion is no longer controlled.) > It's not immediately obvious how this interacts with block combats > (which are a different form of resolution, but the idea of block combat > being resolution - just failed resolution - wasn't quite such a big > thing back in 1997, I don't think). > > However, it seems a bit unintuitive that losing control at one point in > the action "ends" the action, and losing control at a different point > wouldn't. It still ends. With wrap-up.

On 9 fév, 19:30, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > floppyzedolfin wrote: > > Hello Scott, > > > Here are a couple of questions about what happens / what is allowed to > > be played when a player is ousted. > > > 1/ I block my predator's Famous vampire. My predator is on 2 pool. In > > the resulting combat, my predator's vampire is sent to torpor. My > > predator is ousted, but can I play Cats' Guidance ? > > Yes. > > > If I can, can someone play Direct Intervention on it ? (put in other > > terms - whose turn are we in ?) > > Yes. The turn of the acting Methuselah. Oh. Very interesting. I was asking this question because I thought that, somehow, the acting Methuselah had left the game just when he was ousted, meaning we were no longer in a Methuselah's turn, and hence no Master: Out-of-Turn could be playable. But if we are still in the acting Methuselah, here's another question : If I play Cats' Guidance, and replace it with a Life Boon, can I play Life Boon and "give the recently-ousted Methuselah 1 pool, in order to keep her in the game" ? [there was a typo, my predator should've been on 1 pool in the quoted example]

[ quoted text not captured ] > example]- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - From my understanding Reactions and Master-out-of-turn work something like this: Is a vampire I control acting? Yes = no reactions can be played, No = I may play reactions Is it currently my turn? Yes = no Master: OoT, No = I may play Master:OoT Of course this ignores the cases where cardtext contradicts. So with the Cat's Guidance: "Cats' Guidance Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Animalism [ani] Only usable by a tapped vampire immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any). Untap this reacting vampire. [ANI] +1 intercept." To play this card you must check the following things: #1 Is my vampire the acting minion? #2 Is my vampire tapped? #3 Did my vampire block an action? #4 Has the combat from this block been resolved (including ending it by Purchase Pact, Obedience, etc)? If the answer is "yes" to all, then untap this reacting vampire. "Direct Intervention Cardtype: Master Cost: 1 pool Master: out-of-turn. Cancel a minion card as it is played. No cost is paid. (If it was an action card, the acting minion doesn't tap. If it was a strike card, the minion chooses another strike.)" Things to check: #1 Is it currently not my turn, including if it is "not anyone's turn"? #2 Am I able to play this MOoT because I have my basic master phase action available? If yes to both, then you may play DI. LSJ, if I am wrong in this, please correct it.

Juggernaut1981 <brassc...@gmail.com> wrote: >Is it currently my turn? Yes = no Master: OoT, No = I may play >Master:OoT No, Master: Out of Turns are played during another player's turn. Glossary: Out-of-Turn Master Card: A type of master card that can only be played during another player's turn, using the next master phase action of the player playing it. They can't be played when there's no turn. [ quoted text not captured ]

Juggernaut1981 wrote: > From my understanding Reactions and Master-out-of-turn work something > like this: > > Is a vampire I control acting? Yes = no reactions can be played, No = > I may play reactions > Is it currently my turn? Yes = no Master: OoT, No = I may play > Master:OoT With the understanding that it is always someone's turn (never "no one's turn"), right. > Of course this ignores the cases where cardtext contradicts. > > So with the Cat's Guidance: > #1 Is my vampire the acting minion? > #2 Is my vampire tapped? > #3 Did my vampire block an action? > #4 Has the combat from this block been resolved (including ending it > by Purchase Pact, Obedience, etc)? > If the answer is "yes" to all, then untap this reacting vampire. Well, except for Obedience, which ends the action outright, correct. > Direct Intervention > #1 Is it currently not my turn, including if it is "not anyone's > turn"? It is never "no one's turn", so that addendum doesn't add anything. "Is it currently not my turn" suffices. > #2 Am I able to play this MOoT because I have my basic master phase > action available? Another rewording that is very much like the actual rule, sure. [ quoted text not captured ]

floppyzedolfin wrote: > If I play Cats' Guidance, and replace it with a Life Boon, can I play > Life Boon and "give the recently-ousted Methuselah 1 pool, in order to > keep her in the game" ? No. It won't retroactively un-oust a Methuselah.