enter combat action q?

One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful? T

<Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message news:3cfbea44.274489419@news... > > One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat > action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and > the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful? > Blocked actions, by definition, are not successful.

Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] If an action is blocked, it is, by defenition, not successful. If a Bum's Rush (or whatever) is blocked, you get into combat due to the successful block, not the Bum's Rush (and as such, you don't get the manuver). Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "I am the autumn in the scarlet I am the make-up on your eyes" -Kim Deal

On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:52:30 -0400, Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote: >Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote: > >> One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat >> action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and >> the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful? > >If an action is blocked, it is, by defenition, not successful. > >If a Bum's Rush (or whatever) is blocked, you get into combat due to the >successful block, not the Bum's Rush (and as such, you don't get the >manuver). > > I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter combat with that same minion, it was successful. But as you point out (rightly so) blocked actions are unsuccessful. And thus the quandry. LSJ? T

<Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message news:3d00fb06.278779857@news... [ quoted text not captured ] You can be in a quandry all you like, the definition of a successful action is one that is not blocked. That might be different to what you define as a successful action is but it's what the game defines as a successful action which is the only thing that matters ( in the game ).

In message <3d00fb06.278779857@news>, Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com writes: >I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter >combat with that same minion, it was successful. It's not. A successful block renders an action unsuccessful. (Barring later use of Form of Mist or whatever.) A successful block also creates a combat, that is unrelated to whatever the action was. Consider a bleed for one, with Aching Beauty. That's not successful, even though one pool is burned, on a block either. -- James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D I am woman. Here, me raw. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote: > I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter > combat with that same minion, it was successful. You'd be incorrect. The action was a Bum's Rush, which, if successful, results in a combat with the targeted minion. If the action is blocked, regardless of what the action is, it is unsuccessful. Sure, in Bum's Rush's case, you get into combat anyways, but that is because when an action is successfully blocked, you get into combat. The action is still unsuccessful, however. >And thus the quandry. LSJ? Not so much a quandry. Action is blocked. Action is unsuccessful. Combat ensues. Combat due to the block being successful, not the action, as the action failed. [ quoted text not captured ]

Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote: > > I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter > combat with that same minion, it was successful. But as you point out > (rightly so) blocked actions are unsuccessful. > > And thus the quandry. LSJ? > > T > You rush me. I block. I Obedience you. No combat. I'd call it unsuccesful - all rules apart :) Sten During

GreySeer wrote: > <Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message > > Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote: > > >If an action is blocked, it is, by defenition, not successful. > > > > > >If a Bum's Rush (or whatever) is blocked, you get into combat due to the > > >successful block, not the Bum's Rush (and as such, you don't get the > > >manuver). > > > > I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter > > combat with that same minion, it was successful. But as you point out > > (rightly so) blocked actions are unsuccessful. > > > > And thus the quandry. LSJ? > > > You can be in a quandry all you like, the definition of a successful action > is one that is not blocked. That might be different to what you define as a > successful action is but it's what the game defines as a successful action > which is the only thing that matters ( in the game ). Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

<Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message news:3d00fb06.278779857@news... [ quoted text not captured ] Of course you can block a Bum's Rush. What is a Bum's Rush? Its when you run at someone and start hitting them. You get a manuver if it is not blocked because you are running at them like a crazy person. When it is blocked they see you coming and take steps to cancel your advantage. They back up, and pull out their assualt rifle, whatever. You can also block an Ambush, blocking somebody who is tracking you down with a Dog is a lot harder. Even in real life there isn't a quandry. Colin Riggs rushes bum's for fun

> One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat > action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and > the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful? As odd as it sounds, no, it's not successful. Sure, you do end up in combat, but that combat is a result of a block and not as a result of the card. This means you can't use the maneuver gained from the BR, Ambush or Nose. Sorrow --- I keep telling them that I think they're out to get me. They ask me if I feel remorse and I answer, "Why of course! There's so much more I could have done if they'd let me!" So it's Rorschach and Prozac and everything is groovy

"Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<NkSK8.52640$0A2.41108@rwcrnsc54>... [ quoted text not captured ] Well this question has come up several times in our playgroup, and I don't think we came up with a convincing answer hehe... if a "Bum's Rush" is blocked, does that mean that you can replace the "Bum's Rush" card? "Bum's Rush" reads: Bum's Rush Action Do not replace until the end of this action. (D) Enter combat with a ready minion controlled by another Methuselah. The acting minion gets an optional maneuver during this combat. Has the "Bum's Rush" action ended when it is blocked?

Yoritomo Jiriki wrote: > > "Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<NkSK8.52640$0A2.41108@rwcrnsc54>... > > <Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message news:3cfbea44.274489419@news... > > > > > > One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat > > > action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and > > > the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful? > > > > > Blocked actions, by definition, are not successful. > > Well this question has come up several times in our playgroup, and I > don't think we came up with a convincing answer hehe... if a "Bum's > Rush" is blocked, does that mean that you can replace the "Bum's Rush" > card? No. The "Do Not Replace" instruction is a function of the play of the card, not of the resolution of the action (the latter would be pointless, since the card would already have been replaced by that point, blocked or not). > Has the "Bum's Rush" action ended when it is blocked? No. [ quoted text not captured ]

Does this meen that the acting minion gets the manuever even if the Bum's rush (or ambush) is blocked?

"Daniel Eriksson" <Daniel....@epk.ericsson.se> wrote in message news:ae9om8$5b6$1...@newstoo.ericsson.se... > Does this meen that the acting minion gets the manuever even if the Bum's > rush (or ambush) is blocked? no ! if the action is blocked, the minion loses all the beneit from the action card. So no maneuver. Other example : When you block a clandestine contract, the card goes to the ash heap, is not put on the target vampire, and he cannot be rushed the following turns by the contract D action =) reyda

"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3d086eda$0$2987$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Ok but if the action is blocked why shouldn't you replace the card? (i am trying to find a good answer for the rule benders in my playgroup :) )

In message <ae9qvs$b24$1...@newstoo.ericsson.se>, Daniel Eriksson <Daniel....@epk.ericsson.se> writes: >Ok but if the action is blocked why shouldn't you replace the card? The effects - like a maneuver in combat - are part of the card's resolution. Action blocked, no resolution. "Do not replace until..." happens when you *play* the card. They're linked to play. Though the action has been blocked, there is still an action there (for reactions, action modifiers and so on). So the "Do not replace..." bit is still functioning. For a "real world" analogy, think of it like this: - Your vampire is sent on a Bum's Rush mission. Now, due to the limits of the card, they do it in a hurry - no time to replace everything they need, so you don't get a card back. - They meet their target and have a fight. (Action successful.) There's still been no chance to restock. - They get blocked and don't meet their target. (Action successful.) There's still been no chance to restock. Actions are 'special' cards in that they are played and resolved at different times. "Do not replace..." comes from *playing* the card, and lasts for the whole action, come what may. "(D) Enter combat with..." is a function of *resolution*. If the action doesn't resolve successfully, the effect text never happens. [ quoted text not captured ]

Daniel Eriksson wrote: > > Does this meen that the acting minion gets the manuever even if the Bum's > rush (or ambush) is blocked? Does what mean that? You don't have any reference for "this". Please quote messages you're following up to appropriately. At any rate: no, nothing means that, since that is not true. [ quoted text not captured ]

Daniel Eriksson wrote: > "reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > "Daniel Eriksson" <Daniel....@epk.ericsson.se> wrote in message > > > Does this meen that the acting minion gets the manuever even if the > Bum's > > > rush (or ambush) is blocked? > > > > no ! if the action is blocked, the minion loses all the beneit from the > > action card. So no maneuver. > > Ok but if the action is blocked why shouldn't you replace the card? (i am > trying to find a good answer for the rule benders in my playgroup :) ) No. See my previous message in this thread explaining this (with the good answer that will satisfy the rule lawyers). Likewise, Army of Rats still gets +1 stealth even if the action is blocked (that is, you don't wait until the action is successful to apply the +1 stealth). [ quoted text not captured ]

Daniel Eriksson wrote: > Ok but if the action is blocked why shouldn't you replace the card? (i am > trying to find a good answer for the rule benders in my playgroup :) ) Bum's Rush says "Do not replace till end of action". When you play the Bum's Rush, you start and action. If the action is not blocked, it is successful. You do what the card says (get into combat with target, and get a free manuver). The action ends after any combat is over, whether or not that combat is the result of the action or a block. If the action is blocked, the Bum's Rush is unsuccessful, but the action does not end until combat (that results from a successful block) is resolved. If the Bum's Rush is unsuccessful, you don't get the manuver, as that only comes about from a successful action. When any combat from the action (be it from the action being successful or a successful block) is over, then the action is over, and you get to redraw a card for originally playing the Bum's Rush. [ quoted text not captured ]