Ok, so here's the question:
Poor old Frederick the Weak goes to torpor just to see what it's like to
be down there. The following turn, FtW's controller realizes how critical
he is to the deck and plays a Secure Haven on him. FtW can now not be
diablerized (or rescued for that matter) by any other Methuselah's
vampires as a (D) action. FtW's controller then uses FtW's powerful foo to
start blocking vampires around the table and playing Undying Thirst.
(For interested folks, the combo is to willingly torporize your minion
(say with Day Op or Force of Will) and then Undying Thirst everyone with a
clan-impersonated Anneke. You kill everyone with Smiling Jack or
bleeding/voting, because only your vampires can actually act.)
FtW's controller claims that the combo works, since there is a vampire to
diablerize, but that "he's not affected by (D) actions" (card text on
Secure Haven). There was also a corner-case argument based around methods
of diablerie that were not (D) actions, though I couldn't think of any in
the game right now. Others claim that since there is no vampire that they
can diablerize (the effect of taking a diablerie action), the card text on
Undying Thirst does not apply and they are free to act as they wish.
I ruled the latter, based on an interpretation of the phrase "can
diablerize" from the text of Undying Thirst with regard to feasibilty. Is
it correct?
Relevant card text below:
Undying Thirst
Type: Reaction
Requires: Baali
Only usable when a Baali successfully blocks (play before combat, if any).
Put this card on the acting vampire. When there are any vampires in torpor
that this vampire can diablerize, this vampire cannot take any action
other than diablerie (although he or she is free not to take any action).
If this vampire must hunt, he or she may choose to diablerize a vampire
instead. Burn option.
Secure Haven
Type: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master: unique location. Haven.
Put this card on a minion you control. This minion cannot be affected by
(D) actions. Any Methuselah burns an additional pool when playing master
cards on (or that target) this minion. Burn this card if this minion
enters torpor. A minion can have only one haven.
Ankur Gupta
Prince of West Lafayette
Actually, I have a followup/semi-related question regarding Secure Haven
and Edged Illusion.
Secure Haven says the vampire is "not affected" by (D) actions.
Edged Illusion at superior is a (D) action that affects multiple
minions.
If Frederick is in a Secure Haven (and let's say his controller also
controls Emerson Wilkershire III and Antoinette duChamp), and his predator
plays Edged Illusion, will Frederick take a damage or no?
In essence, is "affected" different from "targeted"?
Ankur Gupta wrote:
> [Vampire with Undying Thirst and no vampires in torpor except
> one who has a Secure Haven.]> Others claim that since there is no vampire that they
> can diablerize (the effect of taking a diablerie action), the card text on
> Undying Thirst does not apply and they are free to act as they wish.
>
> I ruled the latter, based on an interpretation of the phrase "can
> diablerize" from the text of Undying Thirst with regard to feasibilty. Is
> it correct?
Yes.
Jozxyqk wrote:
> Actually, I have a followup/semi-related question regarding Secure Haven
> and Edged Illusion.
>
> Secure Haven says the vampire is "not affected" by (D) actions.
> Edged Illusion at superior is a (D) action that affects multiple
> minions.
>
> If Frederick is in a Secure Haven (and let's say his controller also
> controls Emerson Wilkershire III and Antoinette duChamp), and his predator
> plays Edged Illusion, will Frederick take a damage or no?
No. He "cannot be affected by (D) actions".
What if i have a minion in torpor capacity below 4 whit a hostage
counter on it and someone plays an UnTr ?
The diablerizer are fizzle?
Carver`s Meat Packing and Storage Master 1 pool
Master. unique location.
When a vampire of capacity below 4 goes to torpor, put a hostage
counter on him. Hostages cannot be moved to the ready region or be
diablerized. During your master phase, you may tap this card to move X
blood from the blood bank to a ready vampire you control where X is the
number of hostages in torpor. Any ready vampire may burn 2 blood to
burn any vampire`s hostage counter during any untap phase. Burn all
hostage counters if this card leaves play.
tHamas wrote:
> What if i have a minion in torpor capacity below 4 whit a hostage
> counter on it and someone plays an UnTr ?
>
> The diablerizer are fizzle?
Any vampire who cannot be diaberlized by the vampire with Undying
Thirst doesn't count as a vampire in torpor he could diablerize.