[Q] Avoiding the pay cost for several Scarce Vamps.

As far as I can see, there's only one way to avoid paying the 3-pool penalty for influencing out a second scarce vampire of one particular clan, and that's by clan impersonating the first scarce vamp. to another clan. Still, one of the guys I play with mentioned another way of avoiding the penalty. He said that if you influenced out several scarce vampires at the same time you wouldn't have to pay the penalty since no scarce vamps were in play yet. Here's my question: Can you transfer several bloodcounters at the same time in your influence phase ? (Obviously, if you transfer counters one by one, when you transfer out the second vamp. another will be in play) Thanks DJ.Mik

"DJ.Mik" wrote: > As far as I can see, there's only one way to avoid paying the 3-pool > penalty for influencing out a second scarce vampire of one particular > clan, and that's by clan impersonating the first scarce vamp. to > another clan. > > Still, one of the guys I play with mentioned another way of avoiding > the penalty. He said that if you influenced out several scarce > vampires at the same time you wouldn't have to pay the penalty since > no scarce vamps were in play yet. > > Here's my question: > Can you transfer several bloodcounters at the same time in your > influence phase ? "at the same time" meaning "during your influence phase", yes. > (Obviously, if you transfer counters one by one, when you transfer out > the second vamp. another will be in play) No. You don't move the vampires into play until the end of your influence phase. [7]. Still, if two vampires are full in your uncontrolled region, you don't move them both out simultaneously - you move them out one by one (in whichever order you choose). So this is not a method by which you can avoid paying a scarce penalty. See also bringing two Jimmy Dunn's into play "simultaneously" (the second one still burns the first). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"DJ.Mik" <djmi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:81800800.02040...@posting.google.com... > As far as I can see, there's only one way to avoid paying the 3-pool > penalty for influencing out a second scarce vampire of one particular > clan, and that's by clan impersonating the first scarce vamp. to > another clan. Though it's not technically "influencing out" another vampire, if you get one out with the Soul Gem, you don't have to pay the penalty, IIRC. Xian

djmi...@hotmail.com (DJ.Mik) wrote in message news:<81800800.02040...@posting.google.com>... > As far as I can see, there's only one way to avoid paying the 3-pool > penalty for influencing out a second scarce vampire of one particular > clan, and that's by clan impersonating the first scarce vamp. to > another clan. There is a second one: Have a vampire with a high capacity burn him/her self while having a soul gem of etrius, and have the next vampire in your crypt being another scarce vampire of the same bloodline as present. The second scarce vampire will not enter the controlled region from the uncontrolled region (the crypt is not your uncontrolled region) so you don't pay the additional 3 pool. It's a strange way around, but legal..:)

DJ.Mik wrote: > As far as I can see, there's only one way to avoid paying the 3-pool > penalty for influencing out a second scarce vampire of one particular > clan, and that's by clan impersonating the first scarce vamp. to > another clan. > There is also a 'legbiterish' way. You just need to have a ready Ravnos as well as a ready vampire with superior Necromancy. Now you can play Goodnight, Sweet Prince during your masterphase on your own crypt, pay 2 pool and then play Possession at superior. Cornercase? Sure. Worth it? No way :) Sten During

neuro...@xs4all.nl (Pepijn) wrote in message news:<ad39be55.02041...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Bit of a side question, it's probably in the rules... What happens in case of an Embrace? Are the small ones scarce? (so sort of: is Scarcity part of the clan) If it is, you are putting Scarce vamps in play, but are not paying the cost... Wouter

Wouter Kuyper wrote: > What happens in case of an Embrace? Are the small ones scarce? > (so sort of: is Scarcity part of the clan) No. Even if they were, there would be no cost associated since you aren't influencing them out (unless they somehow manage to get Banished). [ quoted text not captured ]

>Wouter Kuyper wrote: >> What happens in case of an Embrace? Are the small ones scarce? >> (so sort of: is Scarcity part of the clan) > >No. Even if they were, there would be no cost associated since you >aren't influencing them out (unless they somehow manage to get >Banished). They still "matter" of course, to the scarcity issue. If a Gangrel clan impresonates a Salubri, and I then create 4 more Salubri via the embrace, I now have 5 salubri in play without paying any penalty. However, if I then influence out a scarce Salubri from my uncontrolled region, I must pay 15, because of the 5 Salubri already in play.

[ quoted text not captured ] Of course. All same-clan vampires (scarce or not) are counted when a scarce vampire is tranfered into play, per the rules. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote in message news:<a902ik$vus8j$1...@ID-123937.news.dfncis.de>... [ quoted text not captured ] I've love to see a deck based on this... Like Influence out Grendel the Worm eater (or that one Nosferatu with the looking at the top of my crypt ability), and another 7 capacity FoS with Gem (so I can have the Towers in play). Sacrifice to the towers and get out a free Nagaraja or something... use necromancy to get back that equipment? Hmm... nope, doesn't work... all well. :) ~SV

"vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f987c6cd.02041...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Sounds good, except you can't use Khobar Towers to trigger the soul gem (removed from the game instead of burned). Damn those designers and their correct wordings!!!

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3CB48E4A...@white-wolf.com... > Nystulc wrote: > > > > >Wouter Kuyper wrote: > > >> What happens in case of an Embrace? Are the small ones scarce? > > >> (so sort of: is Scarcity part of the clan) > > > > > >No. Even if they were, there would be no cost associated since you > > >aren't influencing them out (unless they somehow manage to get > > >Banished). > > > > They still "matter" of course, to the scarcity issue. If a Gangrel clan > > impresonates a Salubri, and I then create 4 more Salubri via the embrace, I now > > have 5 salubri in play without paying any penalty. However, if I then > > influence out a scarce Salubri from my uncontrolled region, I must pay 15, > > because of the 5 Salubri already in play. > > Of course. All same-clan vampires (scarce or not) are counted when a scarce > vampire is tranfered into play, per the rules. > Too bad there's not a master card that you can play on a vampire in your prey's uncontrolled region that makes that vampire scarce. Hmm...another uncontrolled region hoser like brainwash? Only have it not burnable?

"Jon Stahler" <sta...@ilir.uiuc.edu> wrote in message news:<_J0t8.38746$tg4.4...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>... > "vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:f987c6cd.02041...@posting.google.com... > > "Xian" <xi...@waste.org> wrote in message > news:<a902ik$vus8j$1...@ID-123937.news.dfncis.de>... > > > "DJ.Mik" <djmi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > news:81800800.02040...@posting.google.com... > > Sounds good, except you can't use Khobar Towers to trigger the soul gem > (removed from the game instead of burned). Damn those designers and their > correct wordings!!! So many sweet decks have been ruined by the words on cards. Grrr! :) ~SV

>> Sounds good, except you can't use Khobar Towers to trigger the soul gem >> (removed from the game instead of burned). Damn those designers and their >> correct wordings!!! > >So many sweet decks have been ruined by the words on cards. Grrr! :) So many broken decks have been ruined by the words on cards. Hurrah! =P Halcyan 2

neuro...@xs4all.nl (Pepijn) wrote in message news:<ad39be55.02041...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] i do this all the time with my Brit-turbo deck [a variant of Matt Rehlow's Baron-gets-the-soul-gem deck]. Just to fix ideas, here's how it works: The Baron has the soul gem. He is tapped, and on 1 blood. Le Dinh Tho is in play. The Baron does an inferior force of will, modifying it with daring the dawn if anyone has the temerity to block. He burns, triggering the soul gem. If the next vampire is Kanimana Belghazi, i don't have to pay 3 extra pool because i am NOT moving a scarce vampire of a clan already in play from my uncontrolled to my controlled region: i am moving a scarce vampire of a clan already in play from the top of my crypt to my controlled region. Thus, the scarce card text does not apply, and now i have two Nagarajas in play.

"Sten During" <ya...@netg.se> wrote in message news:3CB41E53...@netg.se... [ quoted text not captured ] O, i dunno. The yet-unposted [ahem, read unconstructed/unplayed] post-FN version of this deck has only big Ravnos and the equipment card which gives one superior necromancy ... Sargon fragment, that's the one. Tap your big guy to do the GNSP trick, bleed unblockably with Force of will, Freak-drive, self-rescue, freak drive, equip the fragment, freak drive, possess [add Ravnos stealth to taste]. About half the time you Redeem the GNSP'd vampire's Lost Soul instead of bringing it out, and Ezmerelda keeps leaving the game and donating 11 pool to you, too. You play Week of nightmares with a strange insouciance when you are running this deck. In principle that works quite sweetly, MANY fewer moving parts than the old version [which i DID construct, but played only once ... and lost with ... a thousand Bahs! to Hostile takeover and John Keech]. Of course, this has nothing to do with scarce vampires ... Ravnos are as common as muck ... but you are quite right, Sten, to say that TECHNICALLY this would allow you to bring a second scarce vampire into play without paying the three pool. Instead, you would pay 4 pool [2 GNSPs] and at least two actions ... REALLY not worth it. For the other legbiterish [really Rehlowish] way to do this in a worthwhile manner, see two other posts in this thread. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG