Deck Name: Queen Erichto Saul
Created By: Oliver
Description: Fun deck to play, with the Signet all the legal blockers
are younger than Erichto, so seduce and Croc Tear away. Allies are in
for fun, could go for more Diversions and some cycling(+ 3 Diversions,
+Barrens and Dreams)
Crypt: (11 cards, Min: 13, Max: 32, Avg: 5,55)
----------------------------------------------
5 Erichtho AUS cel DOM obf THA 8, Tremere:3
2 Thelonius aus dom tha 4, Tremere Antitribu:2
1 Richard Tauber AUS tha 4, Tremere Antitribu:2
2 Martin Franckel tha AUS 3, Tremere:3
1 Ehrich Weiss dom tha 3, Tremere:3
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (18 cards)
2 Anarch Free Press, The
1 Anarch Railroad
5 Blood Doll
1 Charisma
6 Galaric's Legacy
2 Hospital Food
1 Seattle Committee
Action (18 cards)
6 Magic of the Smith
2 Pulse of the Canaille
5 Revelations
5 Rutor's Hand
Action Modifier (27 cards)
6 Conditioning
5 Crocodile's Tongue
10 Loose Cannon
6 Seduction
Reaction (6 cards)
3 Telepathic Misdirection
3 Deflection
Combat (11 cards)
11 Diversion
Ally (5 cards)
3 Outcast Mage
2 Thadius Zho, Mage
Equipment (4 cards)
2 Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The
2 Signet of King Saul, The
On 21 Jul 2004, arden mcbathan wrote:
> Deck Name: Queen Erichto Saul
> Created By: Oliver
> Description: Fun deck to play, with the Signet all the legal blockers
> are younger than Erichto, so seduce and Croc Tear away. Allies are in
> for fun, could go for more Diversions and some cycling(+ 3 Diversions,
> +Barrens and Dreams)
Loose Cannon + Ankara is great tech (kinda hard on your grandprey if
you're bounced, but oh well). Maybe you should put in a Heidelburg so you
can share it.
Looks to me like you need more reactions. Otherwise, cool idea.
Matt Morgan
[ quoted text not captured ]
--
"Matthew T. Morgan" <far...@fnord.io.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.040721...@fnord.io.com...
> Loose Cannon + Ankara is great tech (kinda hard on your grandprey if
> you're bounced, but oh well). Maybe you should put in a Heidelburg so you
> can share it.
>
That won't work because the Ankara Citadel is a location while in play. You
could share the Signet, although to less effect.
regards
pallando
--
pallando(at)gmx(dot)at
"Matthew T. Morgan" <far...@fnord.io.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.44.040721...@fnord.io.com>...
> On 21 Jul 2004, arden mcbathan wrote:
>
> > Deck Name: Queen Erichto Saul
> > Created By: Oliver
> > Description: Fun deck to play, with the Signet all the legal blockers> > are younger than Erichto, so seduce and Croc Tear away. Allies *and
> > Charisma* are in
> > for fun, could go for more Diversions and some cycling *(+ 2 Diversions, +1
> > Telepathic Misdirection, +1 Deflection* +Barrens and Dreams)>
> Loose Cannon + Ankara is great tech (kinda hard on your grandprey if
> you're bounced, but oh well). Maybe you should put in a Heidelburg so you
> can share it.
>
no can do...citadel is not equipment while in play. thankfully, because:
a) the DEM equipment (Winchester Mansion) is loquipment too...Coma or Mind of
a Child for 1 blood would be a bit harsh...
b) my Predator in it's first game had Konstatntin out... ;)
> Looks to me like you need more reactions. Otherwise, cool idea.
>
yeah, see above (allies exchange package), but propably need untap, too...
> Description: Fun deck to play, with the Signet all the legal blockers
> are younger than Erichto, so seduce and Croc Tear away. Allies are in
> for fun, could go for more Diversions and some cycling(+ 3 Diversions,
> +Barrens and Dreams)
>
>
> Crypt: (11 cards, Min: 13, Max: 32, Avg: 5,55)
> ----------------------------------------------
> 5 Erichtho AUS cel DOM obf THA 8, Tremere:3
> 2 Thelonius aus dom tha 4, Tremere Antitribu:2
> 1 Richard Tauber AUS tha 4, Tremere Antitribu:2
> 2 Martin Franckel tha AUS 3, Tremere:3
> 1 Ehrich Weiss dom tha 3, Tremere:3
I don't see what's so essential about Erichtho that there should be 5
copies of him. Oliver Thrace and Lille Haake both fit the the
discipline spread nicely and have useful abilities. Why not drop it
to 3-1-1 or 2-2-1 or something like that?
>
> Library: (90 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (18 cards)
> 2 Anarch Free Press, The
> 1 Anarch Railroad
> 5 Blood Doll
> 1 Charisma
> 6 Galaric's Legacy
> 2 Hospital Food
> 1 Seattle Committee
Looks pretty good, though I'd make room for an Arcane Library or 2.
Excellent pool gain, and with the number of Ericthos you're running
you'll always have a Tremere in your uncontrolled region. How about
Chantry to keep your rather frail high-caps out of torpor?
> Action (18 cards)
> 6 Magic of the Smith
> 2 Pulse of the Canaille
> 5 Revelations
> 5 Rutor's Hand
5 RH seems excessive. You'll probably only ever get 2 or 3 in play on
your important minions, and then you're looking at having to discard
the others, which screws your tempo in the later game. Also 6 MoS for
only 2 unique equipment cards is a problem, as is doubling said cards.
After you've MoSed twice and gotten your important equipment you'll
have 6 cards left in the deck that you'll just have to discard when
you run into them... not a good situation.
> Action Modifier (27 cards)
> 6 Conditioning
> 5 Crocodile's Tongue
> 10 Loose Cannon
> 6 Seduction
Cool... maybe replace some conditioning with Foreshadowing
Destruction, but that's up to taste.
> Reaction (6 cards)
> 3 Telepathic Misdirection
> 3 Deflection
I would run more, but I can see how you need the room for other stuff.
> Combat (11 cards)
> 11 Diversion
I'm not seeing why Diversion is all that hot in here. Sure stealing a
blood with a maneuver is cool, but you're still going to get destroyed
by any even half-way serious combat deck(which seem to be sadly absent
throughout much of the Jyhad world outside my little bubble). Sure
Erichtho can use cel for an additional strike, but then what does he
do? Steal 1? Hand strike? that's a pretty lame combat strategy for
a an 8 cap with THA.
> Ally (5 cards)
> 3 Outcast Mage
> 2 Thadius Zho, Mage
Sure. 1 Thadius would probably be enough, as he is unique, but the
second isn't that huge a problem.
> Equipment (4 cards)
> 2 Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The
> 2 Signet of King Saul, The
I would try to use at least as many equipment cards as you have MoS's,
for obvious reasons. Drop to 1 of each on the uniques, and maybe
throw in some utility equipment...sport bike, laptop, .44, etc.
vtana...@riseup.net (CthuluKitty) wrote in message news:<6c1c89ca.04072...@posting.google.com>...
> > Description: Fun deck to play, with the Signet all the legal blockers
> > are younger than Erichto, so seduce and Croc Tear away. Allies are in
> > for fun, could go for more Diversions and some cycling(+ 3 Diversions,
> > +Barrens and Dreams)
> >
> >
> > Crypt: (11 cards, Min: 13, Max: 32, Avg: 5,55)
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > 5 Erichtho AUS cel DOM obf THA 8, Tremere:3
> > 2 Thelonius aus dom tha 4, Tremere Antitribu:2
> > 1 Richard Tauber AUS tha 4, Tremere Antitribu:2
> > 2 Martin Franckel tha AUS 3, Tremere:3
> > 1 Ehrich Weiss dom tha 3, Tremere:3
>
> I don't see what's so essential about Erichtho that there should be 5
> copies of him. Oliver Thrace and Lille Haake both fit the the
> discipline spread nicely and have useful abilities. Why not drop it
> to 3-1-1 or 2-2-1 or something like that?
Lille Haake can't go Anarch, for one thing. Erictho also brings the
Outcast mages and Thadius Zho in cheaper. Oliver's 'no combat ends'
special is powerful, but as you note this isn't the most combat heavy
deck, so that's not as useful.
> >
> > Library: (90 cards)
> > -------------------
> > Master (18 cards)
> > 2 Anarch Free Press, The
> > 1 Anarch Railroad
> > 5 Blood Doll
> > 1 Charisma
> > 6 Galaric's Legacy
> > 2 Hospital Food
> > 1 Seattle Committee
>
> Looks pretty good, though I'd make room for an Arcane Library or 2.
> Excellent pool gain, and with the number of Ericthos you're running
> you'll always have a Tremere in your uncontrolled region. How about
> Chantry to keep your rather frail high-caps out of torpor?
Right, this master card spread pretty much eliminates Lille Haake as a
crypt choice.
> > Action (18 cards)
> > 6 Magic of the Smith
> > 2 Pulse of the Canaille
> > 5 Revelations
> > 5 Rutor's Hand
>
> 5 RH seems excessive. You'll probably only ever get 2 or 3 in play on
> your important minions, and then you're looking at having to discard
> the others, which screws your tempo in the later game. Also 6 MoS for
> only 2 unique equipment cards is a problem, as is doubling said cards.
> After you've MoSed twice and gotten your important equipment you'll
> have 6 cards left in the deck that you'll just have to discard when
> you run into them... not a good situation.
While he might only ever get 2 or 3 RH into play, he definitely wants
to get them into play EARLY, and adding a couple of extras makes it
much more likely that his fairly high-capacity crypt can make use of
them. I do agree about the problem of so many wasted cards later with
limited discard options.
> > Action Modifier (27 cards)
> > 6 Conditioning
> > 5 Crocodile's Tongue
> > 10 Loose Cannon
> > 6 Seduction
>
> Cool... maybe replace some conditioning with Foreshadowing
> Destruction, but that's up to taste.
>
> > Reaction (6 cards)
> > 3 Telepathic Misdirection
> > 3 Deflection
>
> I would run more, but I can see how you need the room for other stuff.
>
> > Combat (11 cards)
> > 11 Diversion
>
> I'm not seeing why Diversion is all that hot in here. Sure stealing a
> blood with a maneuver is cool, but you're still going to get destroyed
> by any even half-way serious combat deck(which seem to be sadly absent
> throughout much of the Jyhad world outside my little bubble). Sure
> Erichtho can use cel for an additional strike, but then what does he
> do? Steal 1? Hand strike? that's a pretty lame combat strategy for
> a an 8 cap with THA.
Agreed. Although the point of the deck is that you simply aren't going
to get blocked much, what with 'nobody above 7, and not him, and burn
some blood if you do' - it's still pretty fragile, especially when
doing any blocking.
-John Flournoy
> Lille Haake can't go Anarch, for one thing. Erictho also brings the
> Outcast mages and Thadius Zho in cheaper. Oliver's 'no combat ends'
> special is powerful, but as you note this isn't the most combat heavy
> deck, so that's not as useful.
Right. Forgot about Lille's title, so sorry on that one. Even with
Erictho's ability (which is minimally used in this deck) though, I
just can't see why 5 copies is necessary. Drawing doubles in the
opening sucks IMO; triples are worse, and (corner case) quadruple is
death.
> While he might only ever get 2 or 3 RH into play, he definitely wants
> to get them into play EARLY, and adding a couple of extras makes it
> much more likely that his fairly high-capacity crypt can make use of
> them. I do agree about the problem of so many wasted cards later with
> limited discard options.
Yeah. The wasted cards really need to be addressed. 6 Gallaric's
Legacies can be a problem too, especially if the Seattle Committee
comes out early. This is probably the biggest problem in anarch decks
though (going anarch that is), so it's no surprise that this deck
hasn't figured it out.
> Agreed. Although the point of the deck is that you simply aren't going
> to get blocked much, what with 'nobody above 7, and not him, and burn
> some blood if you do' - it's still pretty fragile, especially when
> doing any blocking.
The big trouble is that a low-mid cap wall deck will murder that
strategy, and I tend to see a lot of decks like that. The combat in
this deck could be a lot stronger if it used THA to its advantage,
even with only the 11 combat spaces already there.
In message <6c1c89ca.04072...@posting.google.com>,
vtana...@riseup.net (CthuluKitty) mumbled something about:
>> Lille Haake can't go Anarch, for one thing. Erictho also brings the
>> Outcast mages and Thadius Zho in cheaper. Oliver's 'no combat ends'
>> special is powerful, but as you note this isn't the most combat heavy
>> deck, so that's not as useful.>
>Right. Forgot about Lille's title, so sorry on that one. Even with
>Erictho's ability (which is minimally used in this deck) though, I
>just can't see why 5 copies is necessary. Drawing doubles in the
>opening sucks IMO; triples are worse, and (corner case) quadruple is
>death.
Drawing 2x Erichtho is only a minor setback, as you can then get out two
additional/backup weenies and be up and running while you decide whether
to fish for a 4th. Many decks run just fine with only 3 vamps; this is
certainly one of those, as it will create its own minions over the
course of the game.
Drawing 3x is mildly annoying; 4x is aggravating but far from death, as
you are almost certain to get a new vampire with your first 'fish', and
it's Erichtho who is key here -- nothing runs without him. He can keep
things going for the two turns it'll take you to fetch someone new.
If you absolutely, positively, _must_ have a specific vampire, then
you've got to put 4 or 5 in to have any sort of reliability. With 5
copies in a crypt of 12 (you'd think we'd put this on a webpage, we have
to bring it up so often), the odds of having in your opening crypt of
4...:
At least 1: 92.9%
At least 2: 73.1%
At least 3: 38.9%
At least 4: 8.6%
If you only include 4, it looks like this:
At least 1: 85.8%
At least 2: 56.6%
At least 3: 21.3%
At least 4: 2.3%
There's a definite comparison to be made between 4 and 5. Your deck
will fail twice as often with only 4 copies in (7% vs. 14% chance of
just not getting the vamp at all), but by the same token you have a much
better chance of getting only one copy of your vampire with only 4
copies available. In both cases, the chances of getting 4 of a kind are
minimal (for 5) to nearly nonexistent (for 4); this fear can safely be
removed from consideration, as the only reason to put so many copies of
a vamp in your crypt is if your deck will flat-out fail without him.
When I have to make this choice, I invariably use 5 copies. I would
much rather have a slow start with my key vampire in play than have no
start at all and have to fish for my linchpin. The first circumstance
gives you options and allows you to move slowly to start with; the
second simply gets you dead. Plus, in decks like this where the Arcane
Library can be benefitted from (or Eco-Terrorists, or whatever), that
second copy allows me to use the Library immediately, for the rest of
the game, without ever worrying about having to fish for a second
Tremere.
-- Derek
a host is a host from coast to coast
and no one will talk to a host that's close
unless the host that isn't close
is busy, hung, or dead
"Wouter Kuyper" <Wouter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:44a2da05.04072...@posting.google.com...
> On this matter, can i find the numbers for putting in 5/6 in a crypt
> of 13 somewhere? or 6/14?
Yes. It's combinatorics.
First, some useful formulas:
Factorial:
X! := 1 * 2 * ... * (X-1) * X
e.g., 4! = 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 = 24
Falling Factorial:
FF(X,N) := (X!)/((X-N)!) (i.e., the first N terms of the factorial)
If N > X, FF := 1
To find odds of getting a copy of <card> in your first N draws when
there are X copies of <card> in a Y-card deck, use:
1 - ( FF(Y-X,N) / FF(Y,N) )
For example, your first query, 5 in 13, looks like:
1 - ( FF(13-5,4) / FF(13,4) )
= 1 - ( (8*7*6*5) / (13*12*11*10) )
= 1 - ( (1680) / (17160) )
______
= 0.902097
or about a 90% chance.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:37:11 -0400, "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com>
scrawled:
>"Wouter Kuyper" <Wouter...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:44a2da05.04072...@posting.google.com...>> On this matter, can i find the numbers for putting in 5/6 in a crypt
>> of 13 somewhere? or 6/14?>
>
>Yes. It's combinatorics.
>
>First, some useful formulas:
>
>Factorial:
>
>X! := 1 * 2 * ... * (X-1) * X
>e.g., 4! = 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 = 24
if you people are planning on using this outside of a deck-proportion
area of study, it might also be useful to know that:
0! = 1 as a definition.
i think.....it's been a while since university.....
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)