LSJ: selfousting and unsportsmannship conduct

yesterday during a league game following situation occured: after ousting my prey and my grand prey i was down on four blood because i was the target of all the votes of my grand predator. he had 21 pool left and i had no chance of ousting him. i therefore decided to influence my last four pool and ousted myself. did i perform an act of unsportmannship behaviour? my former grand predator (who is also one of the league organizers) at first agreed to my actions, but after i put all my cards back into my deck he claimed i acted against the rules because i played not in order to maximize my VP´s. he then told me i would be disqualified and my game would be recorded as a lost because i said that i cannot restore my hand and library. are his actions right? stefan

Stefan Ferenci wrote: > > yesterday during a league game following situation occured: > after ousting my prey and my grand prey i was down on four blood because i > was the target of all the votes of my grand predator. he had 21 pool left > and i had no chance of ousting him. i therefore decided to influence my last > four pool and ousted myself. did i perform an act of unsportmannship > behaviour? If it's just the two of you left, you are free to concede at any time. [VEKN 3.6] > my former grand predator (who is also one of the league organizers) at first > agreed to my actions, but after i put all my cards back into my deck he > claimed i acted against the rules because i played not in order to maximize > my VP´s. he then told me i would be disqualified and my game would be > recorded as a lost because i said that i cannot restore my hand and library. > are his actions right? It's really up to the league organizer, of course. His actions are "right" by definition, since it's his league. If you could not have gained any more VPs by some other course of action, (as you say) then the assertion that you played not in order to maximize your VPs is false. The question is then does the league organizer think you had some way of gaining VPs at your disposal. And, if so, does he find that it is appropriate to disqualify you when he reverses his initial judgement for you having followed his initial judgment. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3D666943...@white-wolf.com... > Stefan Ferenci wrote: > > > > yesterday during a league game following situation occured: > > after ousting my prey and my grand prey i was down on four blood because i > > was the target of all the votes of my grand predator. he had 21 pool left > > and i had no chance of ousting him. i therefore decided to influence my last > > four pool and ousted myself. did i perform an act of unsportmannship > > behaviour? > > If it's just the two of you left, you are free to concede at any time. > [VEKN 3.6] > no it was him, the player A , then me > And, if so, does he find that it is appropriate to disqualify you when > he reverses his initial judgement for you having followed his initial > judgment. > since we play by the vekn tourney rules, the league organizer follows them. he said he would disqalify me because i could not restore my cards the way when i ousted myself, but i put them away because he at first agreed to my selfousting. is selfousting unsportmanship behaviour? can in not choose the way i want to be ousted? stefan [ quoted text not captured ]

Stefan Ferenci wrote: > is selfousting unsportmanship behaviour? can in not choose the way i want to > be ousted? If you have 20 ways in which to gain 0 VPs and no way to gain more than 0 VPs, you may choose any of those 20 ways, including self-ousting, without being unsporting. [ quoted text not captured ]

>yesterday during a league game following situation occured: >after ousting my prey and my grand prey i was down on four blood because i >was the target of all the votes of my grand predator. he had 21 pool left >and i had no chance of ousting him. i therefore decided to influence my last >four pool and ousted myself. did i perform an act of unsportmannship >behaviour? I think what you did was perfectly reasonable. That should teach your grandpredator from throwing stray vote damage to you! >my former grand predator (who is also one of the league organizers) at first >agreed to my actions, but after i put all my cards back into my deck he >claimed i acted against the rules because i played not in order to maximize >my VP´s. he then told me i would be disqualified and my game would be >recorded as a lost because i said that i cannot restore my hand and library. >are his actions right? That sounds pretty cheesy. Agreeing with you and once you reach the point of no return, going back on his decision. LSJ hath already spoken. But I think what you did was fine. It *sounds* like you were in a no-win situation (and I'll assume you were) so yes, you can choose the manner of your ousting (though Josh and Trey have their own opinions on such matters...). If anything, it sounds like the tournament organizer was a poor loser who's just looking for a way to get back at you. Halcyan 2

Stefan Ferenci wrote: (snip) > I decided to influence my last four pool and ousted myself. did i > perform an act of unsportmannship behaviour? it's the kind of threat i often use myself =) > he then told me i would be > disqualified and my game would be recorded as a lost because i said > that i cannot restore my hand and library. are his actions right? he's a miserable pile of crap. tell him it's only a game and that you have the right to loose the way you want if you are sure you are about to lose anyway. you were correct and even righteous to spite on him before retiring =) He 's invoking rules he doesn't even know , dont let those kind of game lawyer fool you ;) reyda f*** the f****ing f***ers !! >D

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 19:05:44 +0200, "Stefan Ferenci" <a950...@nospamunet.univie.ac.at> wrote: > > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:3D666943...@white-wolf.com... > > Stefan Ferenci wrote: > > > > > And, if so, does he find that it is appropriate to disqualify you when > > he reverses his initial judgement for you having followed his initial > > judgment. > > > since we play by the vekn tourney rules, the league organizer follows them. > he said he would disqalify me because i could not restore my cards the way > when i ousted myself, but i put them away because he at first agreed to my > selfousting. If you are actually playing by all of the VEKN tournament rules: If he is a player in the game, he should not be making any rulings about the table he is playing at (if multi-judge is being used, he can make rulings about other tables). This should probably extend to assessing warnings and disqualifying players at the table he is playing at. By VEKN tournament rules, there should always be an impartial judge, and if you are ever in doubt, ask the judge. Trey

Just doing it for spite is, while probably not against the rules, kind of lame. You need to leverage your existence. Tell the person in second place that unless they do something for you RIGHT NOW that you're going to oust yourself. Make other people pay to keep you alive. *That* is playing for maximum victory points. I've done it before and even won a game once because my prey wanted to keep me in... -Legendre