LSJ et all: Any plans for the 15 years of VtES?

Hello. Since this year VtES is doing 15 years of its release, I was wondering if there is anything special in store (figure of speach) to celebrate this number. Since I haven't seen anyone ask or talk about this, I hope I'm not counting it wrong. :D Cheers, Tiago

Brum wrote: > Hello. > > Since this year VtES is doing 15 years of its release, I was wondering > if there is anything special in store (figure of speach) to celebrate > this number. Maybe it's up to us to give some ideas ? So, what would we like in a 15nth Anniversary special set ?

[ quoted text not captured ] small reprint set, needs to contain just the following card deflection embrace parity shift shroud thingy nice and easy. preternatural strength, heroic might and heart of cheating would be nice though ;)

On Jun 19, 7:44 am, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > small reprint set, needs to contain just the following card > deflection > embrace > parity shift > shroud thingy I will gladly do free, relatively competent illustrations (I'm not the best illustrator in the world, but I can certainly paint a reasonably good picture) for any of the cards that need new art to get reprints. Who do I contact about that? -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] I'd be more interested in seeing the vamps from AH, DS, Sabbat, SW reprinted into the new format. Along with 10 or so new cards. Very similar to the format for the 10th Ann. -Jeff

Peter D Bakija schrieb: [ quoted text not captured ] While that is certainly a generous offer, I think WW should not take this route. By doing so it will jeopardize the existence of freelance artists, who obviously need to charge for the work.

[ quoted text not captured ] so they don't reprint the cards because they can't afford the artists, and thus the artists don't get paid. or, they get Peter to do it for free, and reprint the cards, and the artists don't get paid. but we get our cards. there's no net loss here. the artists are no worse off for having Peter do it. But the community is better off. -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] Ok, here goes some ideas. 1st (and more obvious) a special boxed set like 10th or BSC with reprints that would otherwise be hard to get to young players, like Fee Stakes, Parity Shifts, etc. 2nd: A new Mini Expantion with 4 Preconstructed decks that hold some of those reprints: -It would be a follow-up of the last 2 Storylines (Anarchs & Alastors, Rise of the Imperator) -60 card expansion to boost the Alastor / Imperator mechanic and the Red List mechanic. -4 Decks: 1 Nosferatu with 1 or 2 Parity Shift and Forgotten Labyrinth, etc; 1 Tremere with Govern, Deflection and the old clan masters; 1 Anarchs with Fee Stakes and Anarch Edition reprints; 1 Imperator/Alastor with the new Imperator and his lieutenants. Of course, the cards would reflect the follow ups of the above mensioned Storylines. Cheers, Tiago

On Jun 19, 9:07 am, Johannes Walch <johannes.wa...@vekn.de> wrote: > While that is certainly a generous offer, I think WW should not take > this route. By doing so it will jeopardize the existence of freelance > artists, who obviously need to charge for the work. I don't know that it would (although it certainly might; I don't know how tight their art contracts are)--I don't think that there will be people lining up to do free work for them, and I don't think it would undercut the illustration market, especially if it is: A) Someone completely new to the system. B) Doing work for cards that otherwise wouldn't see print (i.e. no one would be getting paid for it) anyway. I mean, if they have people and budget to get these things done, great! But if the choice is let me do it for free or not do it at all, I can't see how it would be a problem. -Peter

White wolf should print an expension. well not really an expansion, but just a set with all cards released so far, except for EK maybe. A total of 3260 cards. 1972 library cards and 1288 crypt cards. 657 rares, 657 uncommens and 658 commens. in booster packs of 11 cards ofcourse. Per booster 1 rare, 3 vampires, 2 uncommens and 5 commens. So you have to buy at least 19 booster boxes to have a chance to get a complete set. Well it was just a thought. Gr, Oortje

[ quoted text not captured ] I could definitely go for a fixed (or very small non-fixed) set, with all reprints of all the cards people want. Not sure it'll happen though. Instead of just having a player generate free artwork, WW should have an art contest - winner gets their art on a V:TES card and the potential to be paid for artwork in the future. Plus maybe like free qualification for the continental championship and a no-expense-paid trip to it... =) The other thing I'd like, though it's not specifically for 15th anniversary is "world champion" decks. Take the winner from each continental championship and sell their deck as a fixed box... if someone's deck has more rares than WW is willing to release in one box, either they have to replace the rares with commons/uncommons as feasible, or choose a different deck (either another finalist's deck, or the champion chooses a different deck that they own), or perhaps instead of releasing the continental champion deck, LSJ picks like 5 "interesting" decks from the final tables (they'd all have to be submitted, obviously - what are there, 3 continental championships? 4? I doubt Antarctica has one, at least...).

On Jun 19, 10:11 am, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > The other thing I'd like, though it's not specifically for 15th > anniversary is "world champion" decks. No snark intended, really, but why would you like to see this happen? It would make sense for newbies to see how actual decks are built, since they can't get that from the precons, but I'm not sure what other purpose championship decks would serve. John Eno

How about a set of advancements for vampires from earlier sets, along with ways to get them into play and maybe a few cards that might "tell a story" on how the advanced versions came to be?

On Jun 19, 9:39 am, Johann von Doom <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Reprinting of cards that are in actual tournament winning decks is the main reason. Instead of guessing which cards to reprint, reprint the "good" ones. =)

[ quoted text not captured ] Now this is gonna get subjective fast. What, weenie animalism? Anarch death star? Malk94? Dem Malk S&B? Unfortunately this just smacks of the MtG syndrome: Ooooh, look, a tourney winning deck! lemme clone it then i can win too! Does it not make sense to rather make those things used to build tournament winning decks available? Parity shift, deflection, embrace, fee stakes, etc?

Johann von Doom <invisibl...@gmail.com> wrote: >No snark intended, really, but why would you like to see this happen? >It would make sense for newbies to see how actual decks are built, >since they can't get that from the precons, but I'm not sure what >other purpose championship decks would serve. Assuming the selection was sensibly co-ordinated, you have a set of 4 pre-cons for players to pick up, with in demand cards. The championship angle could just be a nice piece of marketing to hand the set on. Perhaps a set around the theme of Champions, with the Camarilla and Sabbat sending out their Archons and Templars and things. An alternative twist on the idea would be to get the Continental Champions to each design a deck with LSJ's assistance on what limits, and possibly if the deck size needs to drop slightly. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

On Jun 19, 1:21 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > Johann von Doom <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >No snark intended, really, but why would you like to see this happen? > >It would make sense for newbies to see how actual decks are built, > >since they can't get that from the precons, but I'm not sure what > >other purpose championship decks would serve. > > Assuming the selection was sensibly co-ordinated, you have a set of 4 > pre-cons for players to pick up, with in demand cards. > > The championship angle could just be a nice piece of marketing to hand > the set on. Perhaps a set around the theme of Champions, with the > Camarilla and Sabbat sending out their Archons and Templars and things. > > An alternative twist on the idea would be to get the Continental > Champions to each design a deck with LSJ's assistance on what limits, > and possibly if the deck size needs to drop slightly. > Yeah, this guy understands what I'm talking about... =) I mean, sure, it's not absolutely necessary, and it may *not* be the greatest idea in the world. But I think it sounds interesting, it addresses some issues (reprints, mostly), makes precons of "good" decks - maybe not newbie caliber, but maybe good for players who are just starting to graduate beyond newbie- and "just build a stealth bleed"- status... And it might be a good marketing tool, like James says. Not a big deal if people don't like the idea, or if WW doesn't want to do anything remotely like that, I just think it might be cool.

Blooded Sand <sand...@gmail.com> wrote: >Unfortunately this just smacks of the MtG syndrome: Ooooh, look, a >tourney winning deck! lemme clone it then i can win too! >Does it not make sense to rather make those things used to build >tournament winning decks available? >Parity shift, deflection, embrace, fee stakes, etc? Given that net decking largely doesn't work in V:TES, it doesn't seem too problematic. There's a lot of play-skill, table manipulation, judgment etc. that you don't get in a duelling game. And since decks using winning cards would potentially release the cards you list, it doesn't seem like a bad idea. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] I think the reason that Magic does it was that there were people building and selling copies of the Championship decks online and it was a good sized business that Magic could effortlessly get into. I don't think it is the same for VTES

On Jun 19, 1:59 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote: > Reprinting of cards that are in actual tournament winning decks is the > main reason. Instead of guessing which cards to reprint, reprint the > "good" ones. =) Fair enough. I'd love it if good cards were reprinted over jank in our run-of-the-mill starters, but if this is the only way WW would consider reprinting useful stuff rather than Forgery and Bang Nakh, works for me. John Eno

On Jun 19, 2:21 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > An alternative twist on the idea would be to get the Continental > Champions to each design a deck with LSJ's assistance on what limits, > and possibly if the deck size needs to drop slightly. This, I like the sound of. It's also a way that WW could give out more prize support,for free* as far as their overheads are concerned. * - Assuming that the starters were part of a set that was going to be printed anyway, rather than a special set of just these starters. John Eno

On Jun 19, 12:59 pm, Johann von Doom <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Now, like always, it's good to think about marketing. If you can hand someone a TWD, it should sell the game a lot better than, say, the KoT Torry starter. What better way to reward players for 15 years of buying their product than good decks to attract more players? Side-note: If the TWD cover several eras and strategies, it can give a good flavor of different decks and give players a starting point on their favored archetype/clan/etc. Brandon

Johann von Doom <invisibl...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] That's sort of what I was thinking. 4 starters, 150 card booster set. In my off-the-cuff suggestion, make the theme of the boosters an Alastor/Templar/Archon/Tal'mahe'Ra sort of thing, and have 4 decks designed by Champions. Obviously requires a bit of time and effort and coordination! You don't want all four Champions designing a weenie Auspex wall, obviously. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] You don't think Forgery and Bang Nakh are useful to new players? Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/

Kevin M. <you...@imaspammer.org> wrote: >Johann von Doom wrote: >> Fair enough. I'd love it if good cards were reprinted over jank in >> our run-of-the-mill starters, but if this is the only way WW would >> consider reprinting useful stuff rather than Forgery and Bang Nakh, >> works for me. > >You don't think Forgery and Bang Nakh are useful to new players? I can't speak for Mr von Doom, but since neither of them are particularly good, it's generally not worth reprinting them - unless there was some way of zazzing them up. (e.g. a vampire in a deck who had some sort of nice Bang Nakh-relevant special) Copies of Bang Nakh in the TWDA: 1 in 2003 Copies of Forgery in the TWDA: 2 in 2002 (both in the same deck) In particular, in a pre-con, Bang Nakh is expensive and poor, and the blood gain on Forgery is typically dwarfed by the option of bleeding for more (particularly on a large vampire). On weapons, Weighted Walking Stick is probably the best option here for a light combat package. It's easy to get out and provides some threat. As a backup, Sengir Dagger turns up in quite a few different decks, and has only been in one starter. For extra combat power, Depravity is available in quite a few decks in the TWDA - a copy of that might do better than Bang Nakh. On bleeding, Computer Hacking is clearly the daddy. Camera Phone would be a decent choice. Fiendish Tongue is good in any Sabbat-heavy deck, too. Bloodwork might be reasonable in a Black Hand-themed starter, assuming you didn't have a bunch of stealth disciplines already (as found on some BH vampires). There's probably room for a better alternative bleed action that's better than Forgery but doesn't outright beat Computer Hacking, which would give older players a reason to pick up a starter. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jun 20, 2:19 am, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > You don't think Forgery and Bang Nakh are useful to new players? No. Particularly not in decks which have access to Kindred Spirits and Potence cards, respectively. And particularly particularly not Forgery, full stop. John Eno

[ quoted text not captured ] Good analysis. LSJ: Don't reprint forgery and Bang Nakh. ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

On Jun 19, 4:19 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > Johann von Doom <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >On Jun 19, 2:21 pm, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > >> An alternative twist on the idea would be to get the Continental > >> Champions to each design a deck with LSJ's assistance on what limits, > >> and possibly if the deck size needs to drop slightly. > > >This, I like the sound of. It's also a way that WW could give out more > >prize support,for free* as far as their overheads are concerned. > > >* - Assuming that the starters were part of a set that was going to be > >printed anyway, rather than a special set of just these starters. > > That's sort of what I was thinking. 4 starters, 150 card booster set. > In my off-the-cuff suggestion, make the theme of the boosters an > Alastor/Templar/Archon/Tal'mahe'Ra sort of thing, and have 4 decks > designed by Champions. > > Obviously requires a bit of time and effort and coordination! You don't > want all four Champions designing a weenie Auspex wall, obviously. There could be a 'storyline' to come up with the decks. The kind of card limitations desired for the decks (no more than 6 copies of any card, no more than 3 copies of any rare, no more than 2 copies of any crypt card, no more than 8 total rares, whatever) could be built into the storyline requirements, as could four or six or eight themes/ teams. Like, for example, in that storyline one could maybe play Camarilla (no non-Cam, at least four titled vamps), Sabbat (no non-Sabbat, at least four titled), Laibon (at least eight Laibon, no titled non- Laibon), Anarch (no non-Anarch titles in crypt, at least fifteen library cards requiring or creating an Anarch), Independent (at least ten Indie in crypt, no cards requiring Anarch, Camarila, Sabbat or Laibon in library), or Unaligned (no more than five crypt from any one clan or sect, no more than two titles from any sect, no library cards requiring Anarch). The designers could choose from the winning decks, one from each faction to be the published pre-cons. Or one from each of the four winningest factions. Or four from each of the four winningest factions, with the final selection determined by a poll on the White Wolf website. Or whatever.

Malone <kffo...@indiana.edu> wrote: >There could be a 'storyline' to come up with the decks. The kind of >card limitations desired for the decks (no more than 6 copies of any >card, no more than 3 copies of any rare, no more than 2 copies of any >crypt card, no more than 8 total rares, whatever) could be built into >the storyline requirements, as could four or six or eight themes/ >teams. I think the specific implementation you suggest might well be too complicated for a general storyline. Something along those lines might be possible for a handful of specific tournaments where the tournament organizer can check decks thoroughly e.g. a special extra tournament at the NAC/EC etc. However, what might be possible for a storyline would be something less specific. Each player plays a normal storyline deck - 75% of a vampire clan (not Caitiff, not Imbued), and 25% anything. Wins are tallied, as normal. The winning clan from each sect - Camarilla, Laibon, Sabbat, Indie - gets a starter in a 'sect wars' themed set. (Gangrel count as Indie.) If there isn't a winning clan for a particular sect (because no-one wins with the Laibon, say), LSJ/the Design Team get to pick their own choice. I think this has potential, because a player seeing the standings for the Camarilla clan being 10 Malks, 8 Ventrue, 1 Nosferatu can decide not to play their Nosferatu deck but go for a better value !Nosferatu deck (where the race is tighter). [ quoted text not captured ]

15th Anniversary hmm.. I'd love to see a fixed set again with OOP cards in there, such as Shroud of Absence, Blanket of Night, Parity Shift, Summon the Abyss, amongst others. With a few new ones of course. I wouldn't mind some deluxe blood counters as well, or perhaps an edge type thing, or both! Something you would like to buy for the quality of it all. -Tim "Brum" <tiago...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:933cfc74-fedb-40dd...@n8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com... > Hello. > > Since this year VtES is doing 15 years of its release, I was wondering > if there is anything special in store (figure of speach) to celebrate > this number. > > Since I haven't seen anyone ask or talk about this, I hope I'm not > counting it wrong. :D > > Cheers, > Tiago

On 21 Jun., 13:02, "Tim" <t...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > 15th Anniversary hmm.. > > I'd love to see a fixed set again with OOP cards in there, such as Shroud of > Absence, Blanket of Night, Parity Shift, Summon the Abyss, amongst others. > With a few new ones of course. Yes, definitely OOP cards that have not beein re-issued in new layout and other hihgly-sought cards would be great in a fixed box. Amongst others named there should be Shadow Twin (which alone enables a decktype, I'm baffled that no-one is missing this card), Oubliette, Call the Lamprey (weak, but still), etc. It would have been cool if the Sword of Cane miniset had had a single Lasombra Starter with all these goodies in it, along with the Dominate cards that are widely sought (Deflection, mostly). I think it's not that difficult to have a single starter with some of the mini-sets, where appropriate (Soc and TR would have been great - think of Fee Stakes). This could expand the possibilities a bit. However, back to topic. Please reprint cards that have never been printed in the new layout. That would be so nice. ;)

On Jun 21, 1:02 pm, "Tim" <t...@bigpond.net.au> wrote: > I wouldn't mind some deluxe blood counters as well I have access to some really nice counters, 1cm high ankhs, white, with red splatters on them.....

Peter D Bakija schrieb: > I mean, if they have people and budget to get these things done, > great! But if the choice is let me do it for free or not do it at all, > I can't see how it would be a problem. I can only guess but I suppose the ~ 200$ for a new artwork was not the reason for not reprinting Parity Shift. They did new artwork on many cards. I don�t believe in coincidence ;-) My guess is that LSJ is putting the decision to ban Parity Shift on hold but decided not to reprint given this status.

> My guess is that LSJ is putting the decision to ban Parity Shift on hold > but decided not to reprint given this status. Yeah, that's clearly a possibility, even seems a reasonably likely one. Ditto for Sensodepro. But then, it's sort of a slippery slope... I mean, maybe that's even true of Deflection.

On Jun 22, 5:43 am, Johannes Walch <johannes.wa...@vekn.de> wrote: > I can only guess but I suppose the ~ 200$ for a new artwork was not the > reason for not reprinting Parity Shift. They did new artwork on many > cards. I don´t believe in coincidence ;-) Maybe, maybe not--we have been specifically told that one of the reasons that certain cards we want reprinted have not been reprinted was due to art issues (i.e. it has become much more difficult [read: expensive, I'd gather] to use WOTC era art than it used to be). Maybe it is just the $200.00 art fee. Maybe it isn't. > My guess is that LSJ is putting the decision to ban Parity Shift on hold > but decided not to reprint given this status. Possibly. But given how this sort of thing has worked in the past, this doesn't seem that likely. -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] If they wanted to ban the thing, I don't think they'd have too many issues with banning it. I suspect it's the competition between the following issues: - cost to get new art they like - space in card sets (what reprints are in or out?) - wanting to release more new cards (how many spaces are available for reprints?)

Juggernaut1981 wrote: > If they wanted to ban the thing, I don't think they'd have too many > issues with banning it. I suspect it's the competition between the > following issues: > - cost to get new art they like > - space in card sets (what reprints are in or out?) > - wanting to release more new cards (how many spaces are available for > reprints?) Actually, it was: the change in the handling of the WotC-era art came too late in the development cycle to allow for getting new art for all the cards intended to be reprinted that needed new art.

[ quoted text not captured ] See there we go people. LSJ doesn't hate Parity Shift, just short deadlines.