rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

LSJ: Raven & Camille contesting

13 messages from 9 participants · 15 January 2001 – 17 January 2001
original thread on Google Groups

Frederick Scott

I could have sworn I knew the answer to this but the local prince here in Phoenix swears up and down that Scott answered the question exactly opposite of the way I thought was correct. So, for the record, do Raven and Camille Devereux contest (are treated as the same unique vampire) in VEKN tournament rules? Fred

theve...@my-deja.com

In article <3A628A85...@netcom.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] i've never heard of that and i couldn't find it on the WW site. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Raven and Camille do not contest. They are distinct vampires who happen to have the same stats. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra

In article <93u64h$p81$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] http://www.deckserver.net/jol/ When playing Jyhad Online, the cards were subsumed into one vampire, Camille the Raven. (This is no longer in use.) The cards have never officially contested anywhere else at any period in time. The only way to decide if a pair of cards contest is by card title. The titles are not the same, so they cannot contest one another. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com http://vekn_clans.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]

Halcyan 2

>> I could have sworn I knew the answer to this but the local >> prince here in Phoenix swears up and down that Scott answered >> the question exactly opposite of the way I thought was correct. >> So, for the record, do Raven and Camille Devereux contest (are >> treated as the same unique vampire) in VEKN tournament rules? > >Raven and Camille do not contest. They are distinct vampires >who happen to have the same stats. Just like Cristofero and Mario Giovanni, eh? Halcyan 2

ste...@doughty-engineering.co.uk

[ quoted text not captured ] The old school rules were they do contest ie you can only have one or the other in your deck.....I think it was recommended that you use Raven due to the copyright issues connected with Camille.... Regards, [ quoted text not captured ]

Reyda

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message news: 20010116045747...@ng-ch1.aol.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I bet Camille & Raven are a lot more sexier....

Halcyan 2

>> >> I could have sworn I knew the answer to this but the local >> >> prince here in Phoenix swears up and down that Scott answered >> >> the question exactly opposite of the way I thought was correct. >> >> So, for the record, do Raven and Camille Devereux contest (are >> >> treated as the same unique vampire) in VEKN tournament rules? >> > >> >Raven and Camille do not contest. They are distinct vampires >> >who happen to have the same stats. >> >> Just like Cristofero and Mario Giovanni, eh? >> >> Halcyan 2 > >I bet Camille & Raven are a lot more sexier.... You're probably right on that point. But with two sets of identical vampires, I'm sure we could arrange some interesting and fun double-dates. Halcyan 2

Pat Ricochet

[ quoted text not captured ] Or, better yet, Donal and Constanza. The problem, of course, is that Raven is a reprint with a new picture, since the model it's stolen from (Stephanie Seymour, I think?) didn't ever approve of her likeness being used. No discredit to the artist (L. A. Williams, one of my favorites), especially since he did the art for Raven, which "replaced" Camille. The whole mess would have been easier if they had reprinted Camille with her old name and a new picture; as it is, the Gangrel got an extra vampire due to some legal wrangling. It really *is* the same vampire, since a 5-cap Gangrel with FOR PRO ani went missing, and a new one with the exact same stats showed up. I *seriously*, seriously doubt that the designers decided the Gangrel needed a new PRO FOR ani vamp, but also simultaneously decided not to reprint Camille. I mean, what really makes her different isn't as much the title as the picture. Many of the cards reprinted in V:TES have slight alterations to the name, and so are "technically" different. But, I don't play with both "Dre, Leader of the Cold Dawn" and "Dre - Leader of the Cold Dawn." Actually, I don't play with Camille and Raven in a deck, either. It seems so obvious to me that the Gangrel weren't *intended* to "gain" an extra vamp, but it was just a legalistic side-effect, that it just too cheesy for me to play it. I don't insist anyone else not play both in a deck (I just make fun of them), and don't expect any change in tournaments, ever. But, just to stick by my guns, I never put both vamps in a deck. -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta

Halcyan 2

>>> Raven and Camille do not contest. They are distinct vampires >>> who happen to have the same stats. >> >> Just like Cristofero and Mario Giovanni, eh? > > Or, better yet, Donal and Constanza. While Donal and Constanza have the same disciplines, they are Princes of different cities and have different specials. The thing with Camille/Raven and Cristofero/Mario is that, except for the name, picture, and minor stuff (artist, expansion/edition, copyright year, etc.) they are identical. Same stats AND nothing else. (No titles, no specials, so there's nowhere for them to diverge). Halcyan 2

Joshua Duffin

In article <B689FD2F.1FD0%sp...@socrates.gatech.edu>, Pat Ricochet <sp...@socrates.gatech.edu> wrote: > > I mean, what really makes her different isn't as much the title as the > picture. Many of the cards reprinted in V:TES have slight alterations to > the name, and so are "technically" different. But, I don't play with both > "Dre, Leader of the Cold Dawn" and "Dre - Leader of the Cold Dawn." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wow, I never noticed that. LSJ, a legalistic question: do "Dre, Leader of the Cold Dawn" and "Dre - Leader of the Cold Dawn" contest? I could really use three non-contesting pot/cel 3-caps in my rush deck. ;-) Josh but maybe punctuation isn't enough of a title difference to matter [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote: > Wow, I never noticed that. LSJ, a legalistic question: do "Dre, > Leader of the Cold Dawn" and "Dre - Leader of the Cold Dawn" > contest? I could really use three non-contesting pot/cel 3-caps > in my rush deck. ;-) Yes, they contest. As do Luccia Paciola and Lucia Pacciola Ecoterrorists and Eco Terrorists Ricki Van Demsy and Ricki Van Demsi etc. and you cannot play a Spirit's Touch after playing a The Spirit's Touch nor a Cat's Guidance after playing a Cats' Guidance, etc. The idea there is that the two cards are the "same" card if it obvious that they are. ;-) -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

Frederick Scott

LSJ wrote: > > Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote: > > Wow, I never noticed that. LSJ, a legalistic question: do "Dre, > > Leader of the Cold Dawn" and "Dre - Leader of the Cold Dawn" > > contest? I could really use three non-contesting pot/cel 3-caps > > in my rush deck. ;-) > > Yes, they contest. As do > Luccia Paciola and Lucia Pacciola > Ecoterrorists and Eco Terrorists > Ricki Van Demsy and Ricki Van Demsi > etc. Damn! I guess I won't even ask about whether my two "Beast - Leatherface of Detroit" with and without the gravy spot I spilled on one of them contest each other. Fred