[LSJ] Zengha swarm, Tangle Atropos' hand

Hello everyone, If Zengha employs a Swarm thanks to her ability (as an additional retainer), can she choose another vampire to place the swarm on ? Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm thanks to Pack Alpha ? Tangle Atropos' Hand cancels an action when a minion is attempting to block (but before the action is blocked). I guess that, consequently, the cancelled action does not count towards the no repeat action rule (and the acting vampire could attempt the same action right away), since the action was cancelled before reaching resolution. Am I right ? Thank you ! François

François wrote: > Hello everyone, > If Zengha employs a Swarm thanks to her ability (as an additional > retainer), can she choose another vampire to place the swarm on ? No. > Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm > thanks to Pack Alpha ? He gets the swarm (unless blocked, then he gets nothing but combat). > Tangle Atropos' Hand cancels an action when a minion is attempting to > block (but before the action is blocked). I guess that, consequently, > the cancelled action does not count towards the no repeat action rule > (and the acting vampire could attempt the same action right away), > since the action was cancelled before reaching resolution. Am I right ? Yes. -- That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet. Keep a little and let a little come back to me. LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > François wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > If Zengha employs a Swarm thanks to her ability (as an additional > > retainer), can she choose another vampire to place the swarm on ? > > No. > > > Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm > > thanks to Pack Alpha ? > > He gets the swarm (unless blocked, then he gets nothing but combat). I don't uderstand the parentheses' content in the Pack Alpha's context... If I understand correctly : If a vampire employs a retainer that is moved to another minion when employed (e.g. Swarm or Charnas) by any other mean than the regular employ retainer action, the "put the retainer on any ready minion" clause is ignored ? Thank you, François

François wrote: > LSJ wrote: > > François wrote: > > > Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm > > > thanks to Pack Alpha ? > > > > He gets the swarm (unless blocked, then he gets nothing but combat). > > I don't uderstand the parentheses' content in the Pack Alpha's > context... Sorry. I was thinking Pack Alpha was an action (to be blocked). Ignore the parentheses part. > If I understand correctly : > > If a vampire employs a retainer that is moved to another minion when > employed (e.g. Swarm or Charnas) by any other mean than the regular > employ retainer action, the "put the retainer on any ready minion" > clause is ignored ? Yes.

LSJ wrote: > François wrote: > > LSJ wrote: > > > François wrote: > > > > Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm > > > > thanks to Pack Alpha ? > > > > > > > If a vampire employs a retainer that is moved to another minion when > > employed (e.g. Swarm or Charnas) by any other mean than the regular > > employ retainer action, the "put the retainer on any ready minion" > > clause is ignored ? > > Yes. May I ask why? I need to explain this to a player of mine here. G

[ quoted text not captured ] Pack Alpha gives the minion the retainer. [ quoted text not captured ]

Well as we were looking at these 2 cards wednesday, pack alpha says 'employ retainer from hand' and swarm says 'when employed, place on any ready minion', so I was looking for a little more explanation as to why the combo doesnt work.

[ quoted text not captured ] No, it doesn't. Quotes should be reserved for quoting, not for paraphrasing. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > talonz wrote: > > Well as we were looking at these 2 cards wednesday, pack alpha says > > 'employ retainer from hand' and swarm says 'when employed, place on any > > ready minion', so I was looking for a little more explanation as to why > > the combo doesnt work. > > No, it doesn't. > Quotes should be reserved for quoting, not for paraphrasing. > > -- That's why I didn't use full quotation marks. But i'm not interested in reliving the do's and don'ts of research paper writing thank you. In either case, what does it take to get an actual answer out of you? I would happily find the full cardtext but I'm at work and as you well know, the WW cardtext list is still down. G

talonz wrote: > LSJ wrote: > >>talonz wrote: >> >>>Well as we were looking at these 2 cards wednesday, pack alpha says >>>'employ retainer from hand' and swarm says 'when employed, place on any >>>ready minion', so I was looking for a little more explanation as to why >>>the combo doesnt work. >> >>No, it doesn't. >>Quotes should be reserved for quoting, not for paraphrasing. > > That's why I didn't use full quotation marks. But i'm not interested > in reliving the do's and don'ts of research paper writing thank you. I've never heard of partial quote marks. Can you describe more fully their function and why one would use them for paraphrasing when using "says that" with no quotes, partial or otherwise, would suffice and be clearer? > In either case, what does it take to get an actual answer out of you? Not much -- cf. the repeated answers already given in this thread. Again: Pack Alpha gives the vampire playing Pack Alpha the retainer he's employing. See also Draba and Pier 13. [ quoted text not captured ]

Apparently the bookmark has changed slightly since the hack....cardtext suddenly is back up. swarm "Put the Swarm on any ready minion (employing the Swarm is a +1 stealth (D) action if that minion is controlled by another Methuselah). If this action is blocked, put the Swarm on the acting minion instead " alpha "Employ an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined. Pay cost as normal" Alpha says employ from hand, swarm says put me on any ready minion....whats the problem here? G

talonz wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Card text also says that putting it on another minion is a +1 stealth (D) action. How do you propose to resolve that action in the middle of combat? Pack Alpha gives the vampire employing the retainer the retainer. The vampire employs an animal retainer before range. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <AeSpf.8230$nm....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> writes: >talonz wrote: > >> Apparently the bookmark has changed slightly since the hack....cardtext >> suddenly is back up. >> swarm >> "Put the Swarm on any ready minion (employing the Swarm is a +1 stealth >> (D) action if that minion is controlled by another Methuselah). If this >> action is blocked, put the Swarm on the acting minion instead " >> alpha >> "Employ an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined. >> Pay cost as normal" >> Alpha says employ from hand, swarm says put me on any ready >> minion....whats the problem here? > >Card text also says that putting it on another minion is a +1 >stealth (D) action. How do you propose to resolve that action in >the middle of combat? Actually, card text says that it's a +1 stealth (D) action if it's controlled by another Methuselah. What's the case if I were to decide (for some obscure reason) to put it on a minion I control? That's not explicitly by card text required to be an action. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

James Coupe wrote: > In message <AeSpf.8230$nm....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, LSJ > <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> writes: > >Card text also says that putting it on another minion is a +1 > >stealth (D) action. How do you propose to resolve that action in > >the middle of combat? > > Actually, card text says that it's a +1 stealth (D) action if it's > controlled by another Methuselah. What's the case if I were to decide > (for some obscure reason) to put it on a minion I control? That's not > explicitly by card text required to be an action. It was just an aside. Seems clear enough. If you could place it on another minion you control, then that would mean you're accepting the "put on any ready minion" clause, and therefore can place it on a minion controlled by someone else. So you're left with the result that you aren't allowed to avail yourself of the "put on any ready minion" clause.

The singular/partial quotation marks are for quotes within quotes. Its easier to use them when not fully quoting than saying 'more or less' when paraphrasing all the time. Shorthand, if you will. G

Aha. Thank you. I had thought that 'stealth D action' text was simply a reminder that when recruiting it via an action onto another controllers minion it became a D action, and not a specefic requirement (only via that D action). I do not think the latter is clear at all, a table full of veteran players did not see that interpreatation this past weekly play session. G

[ quoted text not captured ] The (D) action thing is just an aside -- a by-product that illustrates at least one example of a problem that would be found if an alternate ruling were made. Pack Alpha gives the vampire the retainer, regardless of whether the ordinary employ action would be (D) or not. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <1135143781....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, talonz <talo...@yahoo.ca> writes: >The singular/partial quotation marks are for quotes within quotes. That particular convention varies wildly. They are often used for figurative, or even sometimes mildly sarcastic, uses of words, for instance, and some grammarians typically use ' ' for quotes and "" for quotes within quotes, and some use the reverse. (As part of my job, being aware of grammatical differences such as this between common standards in the US and common standards in the UK, and variations within each, is something I stumble across every so often, as I am a UK-based writer typically writing for US audiences.) >Its >easier to use them when not fully quoting than saying 'more or less' >when paraphrasing all the time. If everyone knows that standard, yes. It's safer to assume that they don't, given that you don't know who is reading your posts while lurking or searching the group from Google Groups and similar. [ quoted text not captured ]