Hi All.
We had a problem last night... The problem was this:
Etrius had on himself Secure Haven
One player played Vampiric Disease on him
"Vampiric Disease [Jyhad:R, VTES:R, Tenth:A]
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put a disease counter on any vampire. Each time a vampire with a
disease counter is in combat at close range with another vampire, the
second vampire gets a counter as well. An afflicted vampire cannot
gain blood by hunting. When an afflicted vampire untaps, he or she
burns a blood or, if unable, burns the disease counter. A vampire can
have only one disease counter."
"Secure Haven [DS:C2, FN:PS, CE:PM, Anarchs:PAB, Third:PM]
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master: unique location. Haven.
Put this card on a minion you control. This minion cannot be affected
by (D) actions. Any Methuselah burns an additional pool when playing
master cards on (or that target) this minion. Burn this card if this
minion enters torpor. A minion may have only one haven.
Artist: Edward Beard, Jr."
The player burnt one pool to play vampiric disease, but some disagreed
'cos you don't play the master directly on him.
Another problem we had was this. If you tap a card, does the effects
on that card vanish? (like it's temporary out-of-play sort of?)
Example if you tap Carver's Meat and packing may you still put on
hostage counters on it?
Carver's Meat Packing and Storage [Gehenna:R]
Cardtype: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master. unique location.
When a vampire of capacity below 4 goes to torpor, put a hostage
counter on him. Hostages cannot be moved to the ready region or be
diablerized. During your master phase, you may tap this card to move X
blood from the blood bank to a ready vampire you control where X is
the number of hostages in torpor. Any ready vampire may burn 2 blood
to burn any vampire's hostage counter during any untap phase. Burn all
hostage counters if this card leaves play.
[ quoted text not captured ]
The text of secure haven, that you quoted there, quite clearly states
in the brackets (or that target) which vampiric disease certainly
does. So yes he does burn a pool for putting vampiric disease counter
on a secure haven vampire.
And to your other quest, no, whether a card is tapped or not doesn't
affect its continuous effects, without explicit card text, like for
example Aranthebes.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Well, I disagree, 'cos you put the master in play, the counter is what
targets the Secure Haven. Like you can play banishment on a vampire
with secure haven.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Klai...@gmail.com wrote:
> On 4 maalis, 13:19, "Baaliprimogen" <VegardKi...@gmail.com> wrote:>> We had a problem last night... The problem was this:
>> Etrius had on himself Secure Haven
>>>> One player played Vampiric Disease on him [Etrius]>>
>> "Vampiric Disease [Jyhad:R, VTES:R, Tenth:A]>> Master.
>> Put a disease counter on any vampire. Each time a vampire with a
>> disease counter is in combat at close range with another vampire, the
>> second vampire gets a counter as well. An afflicted vampire cannot
>> gain blood by hunting. When an afflicted vampire untaps, he or she
>> burns a blood or, if unable, burns the disease counter. A vampire can
>> have only one disease counter."
>>
>> "Secure Haven [DS:C2, FN:PS, CE:PM, Anarchs:PAB, Third:PM]>> Cost: 1 pool
>> Master: unique location. Haven.
>> Put this card on a minion you control. This minion cannot be affected
>> by (D) actions. Any Methuselah burns an additional pool when playing
>> master cards on (or that target) this minion. Burn this card if this
>> minion enters torpor. A minion may have only one haven.
>>>> The player burnt one pool to play vampiric disease, but some disagreed
>> 'cos you don't play the master directly on him.
[Klaital's response moved to proper context ...]
> The text of secure haven, that you quoted there, quite clearly states
> in the brackets (or that target) which vampiric disease certainly
> does. So yes he does burn a pool for putting vampiric disease counter
> on a secure haven vampire.
Correct. If the Vampiric Disease is played with Etrius as the target, then the
Methuselah playing it burns a pool, per Secure Haven's card text.
The Disease could be played to target another vampire who could then infect
Etrius later, of course, with no additional pool burned.
>> Another problem we had was this. If you tap a card, does the effects
>> on that card vanish? (like it's temporary out-of-play sort of?)
>> Example if you tap Carver's Meat and packing may you still put on
>> hostage counters on it?
>>
>> Carver's Meat Packing and Storage [Gehenna:R]
>> Cardtype: Master
>> Cost: 1 pool
>> Master. unique location.
>> When a vampire of capacity below 4 goes to torpor, put a hostage
>> counter on him. Hostages cannot be moved to the ready region or be
>> diablerized. During your master phase, you may tap this card to move X
>> blood from the blood bank to a ready vampire you control where X is
>> the number of hostages in torpor. Any ready vampire may burn 2 blood
>> to burn any vampire's hostage counter during any untap phase. Burn all
>> hostage counters if this card leaves play.> And to your other quest, no, whether a card is tapped or not doesn't> affect its continuous effects, without explicit card text, like for
> example Aranthebes.
Correct.
On Mar 4, 4:48 am, "Baaliprimogen" <VegardKi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 4, 12:32 pm, Klaita...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On 4 maalis, 13:19, "Baaliprimogen" <VegardKi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > "Secure Haven [DS:C2, FN:PS, CE:PM, Anarchs:PAB, Third:PM]
> > > Cardtype: Master
> > > Cost: 1 pool
> > > Master: unique location. Haven.
> > > Put this card on a minion you control. This minion cannot be affected
> > > by (D) actions. Any Methuselah burns an additional pool when playing
> > > master cards on (or that target) this minion. Burn this card if this
> > > minion enters torpor. A minion may have only one haven.
> > > Artist: Edward Beard, Jr."> > The text of secure haven, that you quoted there, quite clearly states> > in the brackets (or that target) which vampiric disease certainly
> > does. So yes he does burn a pool for putting vampiric disease counter
> > on a secure haven vampire.> Well, I disagree, 'cos you put the master in play, the counter is what
> targets the Secure Haven. Like you can play banishment on a vampire
> with secure haven.
The counter is what goes on the vampire with the Secure Haven. It
doesn't target the Secure Haven at all - if it did, then this whole
question would be moot since Secure Haven doesn't do anything to cards
that target the Secure Haven.
Also, why do you think Vampiric Disease gets put into play? Most
cards that are put into play have text that says something like "Put
this card into play." This one doesn't, unless you copied the text
wrong.
Consider the rulebook, 1.6.1:
"4. Targets. If a card is played on another card, or selects or
chooses or otherwise targets another card, the target card must be in
play (i.e., controlled). Vampires in the torpor region are eligible
targets by default, but vampires in the uncontrolled region and
contested cards are not."
Vampiric Disease "selects or chooses" another card - the one that you
place the disease counter on. Therefore it's a target of "the card."
Is there any other example in the game where you assign a target to a
counter independently of the card that creates the counter? Or indeed
that a master or (D) action card picks and affects one specific
vampire, but that vampire is not considered the "target" of the card?
Banishment is irrelevant - since it's neither a (D) action nor a
master card, Secure Haven doesn't care about it. Cf: Yoruba Shrine.