Um... so this preview is pointless without what it means to be an
anarch... Is anarch a Clan (I think not)... is Anarch just yet another
symbol on the card, or "trait"? I think yes...
Anyhow... so like... If I'm a Ventrue and I AG over to an anarch and
become independent, and then Clan Impersonate into a FoS, I'll just be
an independent FoS, that happens to be an anarch, right?
Of course, I don't think we even know how to ask questions about this
beast... so as is, this preview is pretty retarded... ie: Thanks for
nothing.
~SV
vermillian wrote:
> Um... so this preview is pointless without what it means to be an
> anarch... Is anarch a Clan (I think not)... is Anarch just yet another
> symbol on the card, or "trait"? I think yes...
From the preview page:
"Anarch" is a designation for a special type of Independent vampire. An
anarch vampire is Independent (non-Camarilla and non-Sabbat). If the
vampire joins either sect, he loses his anarch status along with his
Independent status.
> Anyhow... so like... If I'm a Ventrue and I AG over to an anarch and
> become independent, and then Clan Impersonate into a FoS, I'll just be
> an independent FoS, that happens to be an anarch, right?
If by "AG" you mean "Go Anarch", yes.
> Of course, I don't think we even know how to ask questions about this
> beast... so as is, this preview is pretty retarded... ie: Thanks for
> nothing.
You're welcome.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
vermillian wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
As an avid player of VTES, I find it disappointing that someone would be so
critical of a preview so early on. I mean, would you rather have no
preview? If so, don´t bother looking at it and comments to yourself. Be
patient and maybe you will find something to get excited about rather than
bringing down the efforts of others with your sad commentary. If you do
feel the need to be pessimistic, at least wait until you have experienced
the expansion so your opinion has some sort of merit to it.
Mark Allen
Prince of Ottawa
>As an avid player of VTES, I find it disappointing that someone would be so
>critical of a preview so early on. I mean, would you rather have no
>preview? If so, don´t bother looking at it and comments to yourself. Be
>patient and maybe you will find something to get excited about rather than
>bringing down the efforts of others with your sad commentary. If you do
>feel the need to be pessimistic, at least wait until you have experienced
>the expansion so your opinion has some sort of merit to it.
I don't see a preview as being important enough to be as critical as SV. But,
the point of the preview is to excite players about spending money on the next
set. This preview doesn't mean anything until the Anarch only cards are known.
I think it would have been optimal to preview a card requiring being an Anarch
that kicked ass first to get people excited by the trait then preview this to
show how easy it is to go Anarch to get people talking about what they would do
with a Go Anarch deck.
vermillian wrote:
:: Um... so this preview is pointless without what it means to be an:: anarch... Is anarch a Clan (I think not)... is Anarch just yet
:: another symbol on the card, or "trait"? I think yes...
Contradicting the thoughts of some here, i must say i'm wuite pleased with
the preview
I think this first preview is great since it indicates that every vampire
can become anarch and thus play a part in politics with cards like Free
States Rant, or play some Anarch only cards that will certainly show up at
some point. It indicates that going anarch is easy (+1 stealth action), free
(no blood cost) and doesn't even takes you an action (you untap when the
card is put on the vampire). It makes me want to tweak some existing deck to
include some anarch strategy.
I'm eager to see the following previews, and i want to know more and more
about the set ! =)
reyda
I'm quite pleased about the first preview card and the nature of the Anarch
trait. I don't think is a weak preview at all. It started me thinking but you
are right we will need to wait and see a few more crypt and library cards
before we can start making any real comments.
Keep em' coming.
-------------------------
Love is what we're born with. Fear is what we learn here.
colind...@aol.com (Eryx) wrote in message news:<20030412071859...@mb-cc.aol.com>...
> I'm quite pleased about the first preview card and the nature of the Anarch
> trait. I don't think is a weak preview at all. It started me thinking but you
> are right we will need to wait and see a few more crypt and library cards
> before we can start making any real comments.
>
> Keep em' coming.
>
Well, this new mechanic allowing all vampires innately to become
anarch as an action which costs blood seems a tad bit powerful to me,
and i'm not sure what to think of this yet. I don't think i like it
much atm.
-Bram Vink
"Darky" <jja....@hccnet.nl> wrote in message
news:93148a54.03041...@posting.google.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
So far becoming an anarch doen't do much for you. Also, that is one less
you are bleeding your prey for.
Think about it.
--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr.
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
"Darky" <jja....@hccnet.nl> wrote in message
news:93148a54.03041...@posting.google.com...
> colind...@aol.com (Eryx) wrote in message
news:<20030412071859...@mb-cc.aol.com>...
> Well, this new mechanic allowing all vampires innately to become
> anarch as an action which costs blood seems a tad bit powerful to me,
> and i'm not sure what to think of this yet. I don't think i like it
> much atm.
>
Not all Vampires can become Anarchs. Any Vampire with a political title
cannot become an Anarch. Considering that there are many vampires that have
political titles, people "going Anarch" willy nilly shouldn't be a real
problem.
"XZealot" <x_ze...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message news:<v9gn0nj...@corp.supernews.com>...
> So far becoming an anarch doen't do much for you. Also, that is one less
> you are bleeding your prey for.
The acting vampire untaps after Going Anarch, so it's not a wasted
action...unless blocked, of course. As a Free State Rant lover, I see
potential.
"XZealot" <x_ze...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message news:<v9gn0nj...@corp.supernews.com>...
> So far becoming an anarch doen't do much for you. Also, that is one less
> you are bleeding your prey for.
Whoops, just saw the new innate action. Never mind, I get what you're saying now.
>> So far becoming an anarch doen't do much for you. Also, that is one less
>> you are bleeding your prey for.>
>Whoops, just saw the new innate action. Never mind, I get what you're saying
>now.
Maybe I'm just oblivious but where is the info regarding the new innate action
again?
Halcyan 2
"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030413141157...@mb-fu.aol.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Preview_Anarchs.html
Under the preview card is some hypertext "Anarchs". Click on the Hypertext.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>> >Whoops, just saw the new innate action. Never mind, I get what you're>saying>> >now.
>>
>>
>> Maybe I'm just oblivious but where is the info regarding the new innate>action>> again?>
>http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Preview_Anarchs.html
>
>Under the preview card is some hypertext "Anarchs". Click on the Hypertext.
Ah. Thanks for the assist Norm.
In regards to that, I like how you don't have to pack your deck with cards (Go
Anarch) to make your vampires Anarchs. Instead, you can make any old vampire
Anarch (Anarch Smudge!), but I do have concerns. Now that I have read that, I
do agree that PTO and Cam Segregation might be abusable with something like
Mind Rape (even though it won't work on titled vampires, you don't even need to
bother with CI's or Go Anarchs in your deck). Not to mention that Temptation
decks can easily screw with other deck's plans by making all of their vampiers
Independent. (Will there be an innate action to renounce one's Anarchhood?).
Finally, I am slightly concerned that this will make FSR much easily abusable
(by clans that previously didn't even bother with it). In traditional fattie
vote decks, you didn't bother with FSR since you might not have Independent
vampires and it wasn't effective to use Clan Impersonation. Now, all you need
is a big title-less fattie like Menele, Helena, or Goratrix and you'll be doing
5-point Rants in no time.
Halcyan 2
I've got a question, do all vampires who have votes count as being titled
for the purposes of these actions? Just wondering if it would be conceivable
to build a vote deck with Anarch vampires.
>I've got a question, do all vampires who have votes count as being titled
>for the purposes of these actions? Just wondering if it would be conceivable
>to build a vote deck with Anarch vampires.
No. A vampire is considered titled if he/she actually has a title (duh!) or if
he/she is naturally Independent and has non-conditional votes printed on
his/her card.
Thus Genevieve CI'ed to FoS is not titled because even though she is
Independent with a vote, she is not naturally Independent. Stefano Giovanni is
not titled because his vote is conditional (not "X vote(s)"). On the other
hand, vampires like Ur-Shulgi, Sutekh, Ambrogino, and Amisa are all titled.
Halcyan 2
[ quoted text not captured ]
Which would mean Xavier is titled as well... Which is funny since,
isn't he the one that called for the anarch? Maybe I understood the
story line wrong though...
--
Direct access to this group with http://web2news.comhttp://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
>Which would mean Xavier is titled as well... Which is funny since,
>isn't he the one that called for the anarch? Maybe I understood the
>story line wrong though...
AFAIK, Xaviar led the Gangrel to becoming Independent. Xaviar did *not* lead
the Gangrel to becoming Anarchs.
Halcyan 2
> colind...@aol.com (Eryx) wrote in message
>> Well, this new mechanic allowing all vampires innately to become
> anarch as an action which costs blood seems a tad bit powerful to me,
> and i'm not sure what to think of this yet. I don't think i like it
> much atm.
Not sure about too powerful, in that I think that sort of mechanic might
be required to make the Anarchs an efficient and plausible strategy -
yet to be seen I suppose but it would seem to make cards like Go Anarch!
a bit moot.
Rob
[ quoted text not captured ]
robtreasure wrote:
::: colind...@aol.com (Eryx) wrote in message:::
::: Well, this new mechanic allowing all vampires innately to become
::: anarch as an action which costs blood seems a tad bit powerful to
::: me, and i'm not sure what to think of this yet. I don't think i
::: like it much atm.::
:: Not sure about too powerful, in that I think that sort of mechanic
:: might be required to make the Anarchs an efficient and plausible
:: strategy - yet to be seen I suppose but it would seem to make
:: cards like Go Anarch! a bit moot.
moot ? maybe not : the "Go anarch" card is free, at stealth and untaps your
vampire. We don't really know about the "change to anarch" action, but it
costs blood and an action anyway.
you may decide that a card slot is better than an action+a blood cost,
depending on your deck -if it relies on speed opposed to installation,
fatties opposed to weenies, etc...
>> colind...@aol.com (Eryx) wrote in message
>>
>> Well, this new mechanic allowing all vampires innately to become
>> anarch as an action which costs blood seems a tad bit powerful to me,
>> and i'm not sure what to think of this yet. I don't think i like it
>> much atm.>
>Not sure about too powerful, in that I think that sort of mechanic might
>be required to make the Anarchs an efficient and plausible strategy -
>yet to be seen I suppose but it would seem to make cards like Go Anarch!
>a bit moot.
>
Um... are you sure thats my reply? I actually liked the mechanic. *Confused*
[ quoted text not captured ]
>No :o) snipped wrong bit. Sorry man.
No worries. *Chuckles*
Back on subject... considering the the number of previews on the WW site I'd
guess we're getting 2 a week until the release. I look forward to seeing the
next one.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>
> I think it would have been optimal to preview a card requiring being an Anarch
> that kicked ass first to get people excited by the trait then preview this to
> show how easy it is to go Anarch to get people talking about what they would do
> with a Go Anarch deck.
You caught the real meat and potatoes of my 'complaint' dead on there.
~SV
emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) wrote in message news:<75bdf7ed.03041...@posting.google.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Agreed. Just think about all those untitled 10-caps in group 3 that
people were complaining about. NOW think about the potential...
"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030413142748...@mb-fu.aol.com...
> In regards to that, I like how you don't have to pack your deck with cards
(Go
> Anarch) to make your vampires Anarchs. Instead, you can make any old vampire
> Anarch (Anarch Smudge!), but I do have concerns. Now that I have read that,
I
> do agree that PTO and Cam Segregation might be abusable with something like
> Mind Rape (even though it won't work on titled vampires, you don't even need
to
> bother with CI's or Go Anarchs in your deck). Not to mention that Temptation
> decks can easily screw with other deck's plans by making all of their
vampiers
> Independent. (Will there be an innate action to renounce one's Anarchhood?).
I'm not really worried about this until I see somebody try
it, though. Is Anarching somebody's vamp after Mind Raping
them, then planning to Protect Thine Own to burn them, really
worse than, say, putting a Fortitude master on them, and
making them bleed with Force of Will? Possibly stealing all
their blood with Heidelberg Castle first so they'll burn from
the Force of Will?
Is using Temptation to Anarchify somebody's vamps worse than
stealing all their blood/equipment with Rave? Or, again,
Heidelberg? Maybe it will be, but I'm somewhat dubious. :-)
> Finally, I am slightly concerned that this will make FSR much easily
abusable
> (by clans that previously didn't even bother with it). In traditional fattie
> vote decks, you didn't bother with FSR since you might not have Independent
> vampires and it wasn't effective to use Clan Impersonation. Now, all you
need
> is a big title-less fattie like Menele, Helena, or Goratrix and you'll be
doing
> 5-point Rants in no time.
Abusable? Are 5-point Free States Rants widely known to be
abusive and I didn't get the memo? I mean, that's nastier than
Parity Shift for 5, Kine Resources Contested for 3, or Protect
Thine Own to burn somebody big... in what way? ;-)
Josh
skeptic, or cynic?
halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote in message news:<20030413142748...@mb-fu.aol.com>...
> Now that I have read that, I do agree that PTO and Cam Segregation might be
> abusable with something like Mind Rape (even though it won't work on titled
> vampires, you don't even need to bother with CI's or Go Anarchs in your
> deck). Not to mention that Temptation decks can easily screw with other
> deck's plans by making all of their vampiers Independent. (Will there be an
> innate action to renounce one's Anarchhood?).
Even if there isn't, I don't see it as being any worse than the
disruption a Derange can cause. And I don't see that Temptation decks
getting another way to disrupt Cam voters as a particularly bad thing.
> Finally, I am slightly concerned that this will make FSR much easily abusable
> (by clans that previously didn't even bother with it). In traditional fattie
> vote decks, you didn't bother with FSR since you might not have Independent
> vampires and it wasn't effective to use Clan Impersonation. Now, all you need
> is a big title-less fattie like Menele, Helena, or Goratrix and you'll be
> doing 5-point Rants in no time.
Somehow giant vampires with no votes that need to take an action to
become an Anarch first using Free States Rant don't scare me.
Especially when Menele and Goratrix don't have particularly good
stealth available and Helena and Goratrix don't have PRE. Compare to
Neshi who's 10, has 2 votes, has PRE/OBF and doesn't need to take an
action before he can Rant.
-Snapcase
On 15 Apr 2003, Snapcase wrote:
> Somehow giant vampires with no votes that need to take an action to
> become an Anarch first using Free States Rant don't scare me.
> Especially when Menele and Goratrix don't have particularly good
> stealth available and Helena and Goratrix don't have PRE. Compare to
> Neshi who's 10, has 2 votes, has PRE/OBF and doesn't need to take an
> action before he can Rant.
You talk like you need presence to pass a FSR. I suppose you think you
need it to pass your average Parity Shift, too. PRE and a vote mod is
never a *bad* thing to have, and without the muscle, sometimes the table
will band together to put the vote down. Still, FSR is one of those votes
that, if called intelligently, has an excellent chance of passing with
nothing more than the edge.
David Cherryholmes
Duke Radiology
P.E.T. Facility
(919) 684-7714
david.che...@duke.edu
In article <Pine.GSO.4.21.0304151457520.19498-100000
@petsparc.mc.duke.edu>, david.che...@duke.edu says...
> You talk like you need presence to pass a FSR. I suppose you think you
> need it to pass your average Parity Shift, too. PRE and a vote mod is
> never a *bad* thing to have, and without the muscle, sometimes the table
> will band together to put the vote down. Still, FSR is one of those votes
> that, if called intelligently, has an excellent chance of passing with
> nothing more than the edge.
I think it's a "damn good idea" to have Presence to pass a FSR. It's
certainly doable without vote push, without Bribes, etc. However, the
idea of 10 cap vamps calling FSR with little stealth and/or vote push,
and who have to take an action before they can even play FSR doesn't
strike me as a problem compared to what's already available. Does it
open up potential for new decks? Sure. Does it sound potentially
abusive? Not really.
--
-Snapcase
On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Snapcase wrote:
> I think it's a "damn good idea" to have Presence to pass a FSR. It's
> certainly doable without vote push, without Bribes, etc. However, the
> idea of 10 cap vamps calling FSR with little stealth and/or vote push,
> and who have to take an action before they can even play FSR doesn't
> strike me as a problem compared to what's already available. Does it
> open up potential for new decks? Sure. Does it sound potentially
> abusive? Not really.
I wasn't trying to lend support to the idea that FSR was suddenly too
good; it isn't. And of course you need to have some plan for a blockable
(as in "people will want to block it") action to not get blocked. I was
only addressing that bit that I addressed, that you often don't need vote
push on a FSR. With the edge and the vote from the card, that's three
votes in favor. Call it intelligently and you can probably swing another
vote your way. Unless the table is just *chock full* of votes, which does
occassionally happen, you've got a very good shot at passing it. I've
done it, over and over again, and no one in my playgroup will spot me
diddly squat.
If FSR was a major component in the deck, I'd play with vote push. One,
it's what your deck does, and "often" probably isn't good enough. Two,
Voter Cap is a good strategy and easy to take advantage of with table
votes reduced. I'm sure there are other reasons as well, but the goddamn
Man is actually making me work today so I'll cut it short.
Anyway, the point is that FSR is a card that doesn't have to be a major
component in the deck to function. If you have mid to large cap
independents and you think you're likely to get the edge, it's a good card
to splash into all kinds of decks, and those decks can afford to forego
vote push to support only the FSR.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <Pine.GSO.4.21.0304160842420.20490-100000
@petsparc.mc.duke.edu>, david.che...@duke.edu says...
> Anyway, the point is that FSR is a card that doesn't have to be a major
> component in the deck to function. If you have mid to large cap
> independents and you think you're likely to get the edge, it's a good card
> to splash into all kinds of decks, and those decks can afford to forego
> vote push to support only the FSR.
Agreed. And the fact that lots of vamps just gained the ability to
become independant makes it splashable in a lot more decks. This is a
good thing, imo. Hell, it makes more sense for Anarchs to be ranting
than Settites.
--
-Snapcase