Jyhad Rules Questions

sprite@worf.infonet.net writes: >ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov (Roberto Ullfig) writes: >>2. When a minion plays a political card, just *when* can another minion attempt >>to block? The rules say before the "terms" of the vote. Does this mean before >>the political card is actually revealed or before the voting is done? >Before the voting is done, I would imagine. (Just opinion here.) No, the vote action can only be blocked BEFORE THE TERMS OF THE VOTE. This means before you decide who the target is, before anything you have to choose on the card is set. After that the action cannot be blocked. >>3. Can you play poltical cards during a blood hunt vote to increase your votes? >My rules say that no cards can be played to interfere with a blood hunt >vote once it is declared. (Although I have a card that will prevent >bloodhunts from ever occuring to particular vampires.) I think this means you can't play cards to BLOCK (interfere) a bloodhunt. Not that you can't play vote cards. >>4. Do you refill your hand immediately after *every* card is played (except >>during voting)? So, during combat you can play a maneuver, then draw, etc... >My rules say this is part of the discard phase, so I would imagine "no". No, you redraw after playing a card. Unless the card says not to. -- | kreme@netcom.com \ 1015 South Gaylord, Denver, CO 80209 #100 | | PGP Fingerprint \ 1D 5E F7 C8 7E C2 F9 87 0F 86 C9 B0 D2 63 9C B2 | | [303/722-2009] Vox \ I haven't seen anything like that since the | | [303/777-2911] Data \ Pin~ata death duels on Nuevo Tiajuana!! |

sprite@worf.infonet.net writes: >ai231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Robert Collins) writes: >My rulebook says "1 for each ready Prince." And I believe "ready" is the >same as "untapped and in the active region." Ready is in the ready region, it has nothing to do with tapped or untapped. -- | kreme@netcom.com \ 1015 South Gaylord, Denver, CO 80209 #100 | | PGP Fingerprint \ 1D 5E F7 C8 7E C2 F9 87 0F 86 C9 B0 D2 63 9C B2 | | [303/722-2009] Vox \ I haven't seen anything like that since the | | [303/777-2911] Data \ Pin~ata death duels on Nuevo Tiajuana!! |

: >>3. Can you play poltical cards during a blood hunt vote to increase your votes? : >My rules say that no cards can be played to interfere with a blood hunt : >vote once it is declared. (Although I have a card that will prevent : >bloodhunts from ever occuring to particular vampires.) : I think this means you can't play cards to BLOCK (interfere) a bloodhunt. : Not that you can't play vote cards. This is completely correct. The only cards you can play on a bloodhunt (if the hunt goes through in the first place) are political cards for votes.

mb7553@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Merrill Brick) writes: : : : >>3. Can you play poltical cards during a blood hunt vote to increase your votes? : : : >My rules say that no cards can be played to interfere with a blood hunt : : >vote once it is declared. (Although I have a card that will prevent : : >bloodhunts from ever occuring to particular vampires.) : : : I think this means you can't play cards to BLOCK (interfere) a bloodhunt. : : Not that you can't play vote cards. : : This is completely correct. The only cards you can play on a bloodhunt : (if the hunt goes through in the first place) are political cards for votes. Wrong. You cannot even play political cards during a call for bloodhunt, as it is NOT an action. This from the Duelists Convocation themselves.

In article <CvqH35.Jvs@iat.holonet.net>, Anton Dovydaitis <ishius@iat.holonet.net> wrote: >Wrong. You cannot even play political cards during a call for bloodhunt, >as it is NOT an action. This from the Duelists Convocation themselves. Wrong. Actually what they said was that Action Modifers and Reactions couldn't be played because the bloodhunt was not an action, but other political cards could be used as votes. -dave

dbower@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (David R Bower) writes: : In article <CvqH35.Jvs@iat.holonet.net>, : Anton Dovydaitis <ishius@iat.holonet.net> wrote: : >Wrong. You cannot even play political cards during a call for bloodhunt, : >as it is NOT an action. This from the Duelists Convocation themselves. : : Wrong. Actually what they said was that Action Modifers and Reactions : couldn't be played because the bloodhunt was not an action, but : other political cards could be used as votes. I have had this made clear to me in person by the Duelists Convocation during two tournaments I played in recently. Playing a Political Card as a vote is using it as a REACTION card, and hence is illegal. NO cards may be played for votes during an ordinary call for Bloodhunt whatsoever. None. All political cards are either actions, reactions, or action modifiers. I don't think you'll find anywhere in any version of the rules that cards may be played for votes during a bloodhunt. Anton

In article <Cvtpy7.6Kp@iat.holonet.net>, Anton Dovydaitis <ishius@iat.holonet.net> wrote: >I have had this made clear to me in person by the Duelists Convocation >during two tournaments I played in recently. Playing a Political Card >as a vote is using it as a REACTION card, and hence is illegal. > >NO cards may be played for votes during an ordinary call for Bloodhunt >whatsoever. None. All political cards are either actions, reactions, >or action modifiers. > >I don't think you'll find anywhere in any version of the rules that >cards may be played for votes during a bloodhunt. > I'm not going to dispute that a DC judge made this ruling. However, Political cards are not listed as reactions when being played, they are just played. The rules forbid reactions and action modifiers, but they just don't mention political cards at all. They don't say that no cards can be played, nor do they say that any cards can be played, they just don't say. What this DC judge said is a valid interpretation. Personally, however, I will play that the political cards can be used until such time as a ruling comes to me firsthand. After all, until then, we've all got to play our house rules. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | jsciv@vt.edu | ** csipga@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

In article <Cvtpy7.6Kp@iat.holonet.net>, ishius@iat.holonet.net (Anton Dovydaitis) writes: |> dbower@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (David R Bower) writes: |> : In article <CvqH35.Jvs@iat.holonet.net>, |> : Anton Dovydaitis <ishius@iat.holonet.net> wrote: |> : >Wrong. You cannot even play political cards during a call for bloodhunt, |> : >as it is NOT an action. This from the Duelists Convocation themselves. |> : |> : Wrong. Actually what they said was that Action Modifers and Reactions |> : couldn't be played because the bloodhunt was not an action, but |> : other political cards could be used as votes. |> |> I have had this made clear to me in person by the Duelists Convocation |> during two tournaments I played in recently. Playing a Political Card |> as a vote is using it as a REACTION card, and hence is illegal. |> |> NO cards may be played for votes during an ordinary call for Bloodhunt |> whatsoever. None. All political cards are either actions, reactions, |> or action modifiers. |> |> I don't think you'll find anywhere in any version of the rules that |> cards may be played for votes during a bloodhunt. |> |> Anton |> |> This was posted by: - Beth Moursund (bethmo@wizards.com) MTG-L NetRep of WotC (and JYHAD-L, at least for now) on Date: Tue, 30 Aug 94 01:09:59 -0700 ** Responses to Jyhad Digests #45-49 ** No-context answers... * If you have the Edge during your untap phase, you gain 1 pool. You don't have to give up the Edge for it. (Rules section 12.1) * Voting for a Bloodhunt is exactly the same as any other vote. Each player gets votes for the ready Primogens/Princes/Justicars they have, plus one additional vote for each vote card they burn. ... -- Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov

+ You cannot even play political cards during a call for bloodhunt, + as it is NOT an action. This from the Duelists Convocation themselves. + > Actually what they said was that Action Modifers and Reactions > couldn't be played because the bloodhunt was not an action, but > other political cards could be used as votes. +I have had this made clear to me in person by the Duelists Convocation +during two tournaments I played in recently. Playing a Political Card +as a vote is using it as a REACTION card, and hence is illegal. Playing a political card is _not_ a reaction. Section 13.2 of the corrected rules: "Reaction cards are played by an untapped minion and may only be used in response to another player's minion's actions." Section 17.1 (voting) "When...a call is made for a bloodhunt... . Additional political cards can also be used by any of the other Methuselahs for votes" [note: the word 'other' was ruled as not disqualifiing the one taking the action.] Playing a political card for a vote is merely an option you have duriing a vote which isn't any particular "kind" of action. I agree completely that if your judge said it, then that's the way it should be played for that game. It's still wrong, though. I've frequently pointed out mistakes judges have made after a match is over. No big deal. +NO cards may be played for votes during an ordinary call for Bloodhunt +whatsoever. None. All political cards are either actions, reactions, +or action modifiers. I can't find this in my copy of the corrected rules. I can find: Section 16.3 (Diablerie), last sentence: "This vote is not considered an action, so reaction and action modifier cards may not be played." Most people read this as a helpful reminder. You can't play 'Bewitching Oration' on the acting vampire to gain 4 votes since there is no acting vampire. You can't react with a 'Dread Gaze' to gain 4 votes since (as quoted above) you can only react to things _minions_ do. If you read it as a new rule, it still doesn't disqualify action cards, which is what all the "+1 vote" political cards seem to be. To sum up, the rules seem to make a point of saying you can use political cards for a vote during a bloodhunt in the section on voting, and don't say you can't in the section on bloodhunts. --

Anton Dovydaitis <ishius@iat.holonet.net> wrote: >I have had this made clear to me in person by the Duelists Convocation >during two tournaments I played in recently. Playing a Political Card >as a vote is using it as a REACTION card, and hence is illegal. This is incorrect. Burning cards for votes is not a reaction, so is legal during a bloodhunt. Any rulings made in the field should be taken with a grain of salt at this point. >I don't think you'll find anywhere in any version of the rules that >cards may be played for votes during a bloodhunt. Can you find anything saying you can't? Because the voting section starts out describing how you can get votes, and then specifically prohibits action modifier and reaction cards during a bloodhunt (policitical action cards are neither), any other manner of getting votes is legal. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

In article <34o6fo$jsg@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >>I don't think you'll find anywhere in any version of the rules that >>cards may be played for votes during a bloodhunt. > >Can you find anything saying you can't? Because the voting section starts >out describing how you can get votes, and then specifically prohibits >action modifier and reaction cards during a bloodhunt (policitical action >cards are neither), any other manner of getting votes is legal. Frankly, after reading the rules through four times carefully and a large number of times in parts, I couldn't have told you with any certainty if vote cards were played by a Methusela or a minion, and if they were played by minion whether that minion was tapped. Where are the corrected rules? -- Kevin J. Maroney|kjm@panix.com|Proud to be a Maroney|Proud to be a Yonker Never send money to someone who has the language skills of a rutabaga.

In article <1994Sep9.194928.13055@wdl.loral.com> mab@dst17.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar) writes: >>In section 17.1 VOTING it says: "When a Political card is played or a >>call made for a BLOODHUNT against a vampire committing diablerie, a >>vote is called." This section then goes on the describe the procedure >>for counting votes, including the use of political actions cards for >>extra votes. >> >>No where in the section does it distinguish a vote for a political >>action from that for a bloodhunt. I'd say that the rule are unclear >>about this. The bloodhunt is distinguished elsewhere: Section 16.3 Encounter a Vampire in Torpor (no card required) Heading Diablerie (no card required) Paragraph 3: "...any Methuselah may immediately call a vote among all the Methuselahs to decide whether or not a bloodhunt will be called. [...] This vote is not considered an action, so reaction and action modifier cards cannot be played." This is a pretty clear nix on Action Mods and Reaction cards. Action Mods it makes sense to disallow, since the vote is clearly being called by the Methuselah and not a Minion. Reaction cards are probably disallowed for reasons of game balance, since they can't be played in your own turn (and therefore the diablerizing Vampire would be at an even greater disadvantage than before, since most instances of diablerie take plae in the minion's controller's turn). The question of Title Votes (Primogen, Prince and Justicar) is more up for debate. It's reasonable to believe that they are allowed since there's no required action on the parts of the minions themselves, they merely need to be ready. And, of course, Political Cards, when burned for votes, are not burned by a minion, they're burned by the Methuselah. What I'm trying to say is that there is about as much justification to prevent the use of Political Cards during a bloodhunt vote as there is to prevent Titled minions from casting votes. This would leave a pretty paltry set of options on exactly how one does cast votes (a set of no options, to be exact). As such, it seems entirely reasonable (and, indeed, even intuitive) that Political Cards should be able to be used during bloodhunt votes. My $.02 Josh Bluestein wabe@ftp.com

In article <Cvtpy7.6Kp@iat.holonet.net> ishius@iat.holonet.net (Anton Dovydaitis) writes: >dbower@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (David R Bower) writes: >: In article <CvqH35.Jvs@iat.holonet.net>, >: Anton Dovydaitis <ishius@iat.holonet.net> wrote: >: >Wrong. You cannot even play political cards during a call for bloodhunt, >: >as it is NOT an action. This from the Duelists Convocation themselves. >: >: Wrong. Actually what they said was that Action Modifers and Reactions >: couldn't be played because the bloodhunt was not an action, but >: other political cards could be used as votes. > >I have had this made clear to me in person by the Duelists Convocation >during two tournaments I played in recently. Playing a Political Card >as a vote is using it as a REACTION card, and hence is illegal. >NO cards may be played for votes during an ordinary call for Bloodhunt >whatsoever. None. All political cards are either actions, reactions, >or action modifiers. >I don't think you'll find anywhere in any version of the rules that >cards may be played for votes during a bloodhunt. In section 17.1 VOTING it says: "When a Political card is played or a call made for a BLOODHUNT against a vampire committing diablerie, a vote is called." This section then goes on the describe the procedure for counting votes, including the use of political actions cards for extra votes. No where in the section does it distinguish a vote for a political action from that for a bloodhunt. I'd say that the rule are unclear about this. -- Mark Biggar mab@wdl.lorla.com

Joshua Bluestein <wabe@ftp.com> wrote: >Section 16.3 Encounter a Vampire in Torpor (no card required) >Heading Diablerie (no card required) >Paragraph 3: >"...any Methuselah may immediately call a vote among all the >Methuselahs to decide whether or not a bloodhunt will be called. >[...] This vote is not considered an action, so reaction and action >modifier cards cannot be played." >This is a pretty clear nix on Action Mods and Reaction cards. Action >Mods it makes sense to disallow, since the vote is clearly being >called by the Methuselah and not a Minion. >Reaction cards are probably disallowed for reasons of game balance... Actually, reaction cards are disallowed since they're only used during someone else's minion's action (section 7.2.2). Since calling a bloodhunt vote doesn't involve an action, playing a reaction card would be illegal. This is one of the few places where the Jyhad rules list a rule redundantly, for clarification :) >The question of Title Votes (Primogen, Prince and Justicar) is more >up for debate. It's reasonable to believe that they are allowed >since there's no required action on the parts of the minions >themselves, they merely need to be ready. Only action modifiers and reactions are disallowed during a bloodhunt vote. Any other method of getting votes is legal. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.