Frenzy has turned out to be a great card in our games to stop that
particular vampire from using equipment, like that pesky flame-thrower
or chainsaw. It has raised a question though:
The last line on the Frenzy card says: "This round has a press only
usable to continue combat." This seemed clear to me that if any vampire
in the combat pressed (by whatever means) it could only be to continue
combat and no presses (by whatever means) could be used to end combat.
We had many other interpretations.
Was my interpretation right, and if so, why? Should this be read as
"This round has a press phase in which the only press which can be played
is one that continues combat"?
Does Frenzy mean that the vampire frenzied is GRANTED a press to continue
combat? must take that press? can only PLAY a press to continue combat?
Can the opponent of the frenzied vampire use a press "hanging there" from
Frenzy to continue combat? can only PLAY a press to continue combat?
Is it that regardless of what anyone wants, there is a press this round to
continue combat? can either combatant do anything about it?
Please help,
Tim
--
Timothy M. Schreyer schrey@kennet.paramax.com
Weather Information Services (610) 444-2449
Unisys Government Systems Group FAX: (610) 444-2420
221 Gale Lane, Kennett Square, PA 19348
Timothy M. Schreyer (schrey@kennet.paramax.com) wrote:
: Is it that regardless of what anyone wants, there is a press this round to
: continue combat? can either combatant do anything about it?
I believe this is the correct interpretation. At the end of the round a
press continuing combat automatically takes place, heedless of the two
combatants. However, my group then saw nothing wrong with either vampire
using an available press from another source to counter the Frenzy press.
-- Dark Angel
In article <345236$ecl@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>, bootz@umich.edu (Michael Alan Bielec) writes:
|> Timothy M. Schreyer (schrey@kennet.paramax.com) wrote:
|>
|> : Is it that regardless of what anyone wants, there is a press this round to
|> : continue combat? can either combatant do anything about it?
|>
|> I believe this is the correct interpretation. At the end of the round a
|> press continuing combat automatically takes place, heedless of the two
|> combatants. However, my group then saw nothing wrong with either vampire
|> using an available press from another source to counter the Frenzy press.
|>
My argument against this intepretation was: if that is the meaning, then
why does it say the press is "only usable to continue combat" instead of
something like "has a press which continues combat"? And if you can then
use another press to end combat, how copme it says "only usable to continue
combat"?
I'm still confused and not all the way convinced. Tom?
Tim
--
Timothy M. Schreyer schrey@kennet.paramax.com
Weather Information Services (610) 444-2449
Unisys Government Systems Group FAX: (610) 444-2420
221 Gale Lane, Kennett Square, PA 19348
In article <1994Sep1.145457.2859@vfl.paramax.com>,
Timothy M. Schreyer <schrey@kennet.paramax.com> wrote:
> Frenzy has turned out to be a great card in our games to stop that
> particular vampire from using equipment, like that pesky flame-thrower
> or chainsaw. It has raised a question though:
>
> The last line on the Frenzy card says: "This round has a press only
> usable to continue combat." This seemed clear to me that if any vampire
> in the combat pressed (by whatever means) it could only be to continue
> combat and no presses (by whatever means) could be used to end combat.
> We had many other interpretations.
>
> Was my interpretation right, and if so, why? Should this be read as
> "This round has a press phase in which the only press which can be played
> is one that continues combat"?
It means that there is a press to continue combat from the playing of the
Frenzy card. If neither player plays a press to counter this, the combat
will press to another round. The player using the Frenzy card may play
a press card to counter the press from the Frenzy. All it means is that
if you use the Frenzy card, there is automatically a press to continue
combat; this press is not "special" in anyway -- it's just "there". Unless
someone counters it, it forces another round of combat.
...Paul
--
+ + + + + + + + + + +
Paul, cleggp@rpi.edu. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD
"When doth life leave the weary?
'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul
In article <1994Sep1.180056.8182@vfl.paramax.com>,
Timothy M. Schreyer <schrey@kennet.paramax.com> wrote:
>In article <345236$ecl@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>, bootz@umich.edu (Michael Alan Bielec) writes:
>|> I believe this is the correct interpretation. At the end of the round a
>|> press continuing combat automatically takes place, heedless of the two
>|> combatants. However, my group then saw nothing wrong with either vampire
>|> using an available press from another source to counter the Frenzy press.
>|>
> My argument against this intepretation was: if that is the meaning, then
> why does it say the press is "only usable to continue combat" instead of
> something like "has a press which continues combat"? And if you can then
> use another press to end combat, how copme it says "only usable to continue
> combat"?
>
> I'm still confused and not all the way convinced. Tom?
A press, you have to realize, can be used in two ways: A) it can be used
to extend combat to another round. B) it can be used to counter a press
used to extend combat to another round.
Therefore, a "press only usable to continue combat" can only be used to
function like A). A "press only usable to end combat" can only be used
to function like B). A "press", with no qualifications, can be used in
either way.
...Paul
--
+ + + + + + + + + + +
Paul, cleggp@rpi.edu. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD
"When doth life leave the weary?
'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul
: My argument against this intepretation was: if that is the meaning, then
: why does it say the press is "only usable to continue combat" instead of
: something like "has a press which continues combat"? And if you can then
: use another press to end combat, how copme it says "only usable to continue
: combat"?: I'm still confused and not all the way convinced. Tom?: Tim
I'm not sure if you've seen any discussions about this card, but on the
Jyhad mailing list, there's been a discussion about the card "Trap" which has
a similar wording to the card you're discussing right now. The correct inter-
pretation of that card is that a press is automatically played by the card
(I suppose in effect, by the player of the card, but I'm not sure -- perhaps
that means the player of Frenzy can't play a press to cancel the Frenzy press?
Hmm... dunno about that one! It's a Master card, so I suppose the vampire
in combat had little to do, technically, with the press. So I guess he could
cancel it...) Anyway, a press is automatically played that round, and it is
automatically 'directed' to continue combat (as opposed to floating around
unused until the player of the Master card decides whether to use it to counter
a press or to continue combat with it). I suppose the reason they don't say
"has a press which continues combat" is because someone might interpret this
to mean that the press is automatically successful with no opportunity to
counter it with another press, which is BS...
Later...
-Evan (Evan Gridley, ejg1@cornell.edu)
: --
: Timothy M. Schreyer schrey@kennet.paramax.com
: Weather Information Services (610) 444-2449
: Unisys Government Systems Group FAX: (610) 444-2420
: 221 Gale Lane, Kennett Square, PA 19348
Michael Alan Bielec <bootz@umich.edu> wrote:
>:Is it that regardless of what anyone wants, there is a press this round to
>:continue combat? can either combatant do anything about it?
>I believe this is the correct interpretation. At the end of the round a
>press continuing combat automatically takes place, heedless of the two
>combatants. However, my group then saw nothing wrong with either vampire
>using an available press from another source to counter the Frenzy press.
All correct.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Timothy M. Schreyer <schrey@kennet.paramax.com> wrote:
> My argument against this intepretation was: if that is the meaning, then
> why does it say the press is "only usable to continue combat" instead of
> something like "has a press which continues combat"? And if you can then
> use another press to end combat, how copme it says "only usable to continue
> combat"?
> I'm still confused and not all the way convinced. Tom?
Both "versions" of the text to Frenzy say the same thing,
namely, that there will be a press to continue that round, just as if
Dead-end Alley had been played. This is just a press to continue, which
may be offset by a press (to end) if desired, so the combat is not
guaranteed to continue to another round, though it will typically do so.
Also, if you look at the entire card set, they all say "press, only usable
to continue combat" or "press, only usable to end combat", so the wording
of Frenzy is simply being consistent with the rest of the cards.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
My favorite use for the Frenzy card - play it on two _other_ people's vampires,
to let them beat the snot out of each other for you :)
Alec
--
Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics
ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
http://astrowww.astro.indiana.edu/personnel/ahabig/
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.
Alec Habig <ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu> wrote:
>My favorite use for the Frenzy card - play it on two _other_ people's vampires
>to let them beat the snot out of each other for you :)
Except that you have to spend your next master phase to use an out-of-turn
master card, so you can't use two of them between your turns, so you can't
play two Frenzies in a combat.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes:
>Alec Habig <ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu> wrote:>>My favorite use for the Frenzy card - play it on two _other_ people's vampires
>>to let them beat the snot out of each other for you :)>
>Except that you have to spend your next master phase to use an out-of-turn
>master card, so you can't use two of them between your turns, so you can't
>play two Frenzies in a combat.
Of course, but it only takes one to get the press that allows them to hit each
other over the head again.
Alec
--
Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics
ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
http://astrowww.astro.indiana.edu/personnel/ahabig/
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.