Complex Question

This came up today, and I wanted an official responce. The Setting: I'm at 7 pool with Camille Devereux and Gitane St. Claire in torpor. Badger was just influenced out last turn. Camille has one blood and Tasha Morgan, Gitane has 0 blood, a fame, the Soul Gem of Etrius, and J.S.Simmons. My predator has just finished bleeding me with Rebekka, Chantry Elder of Munich, who has a pulse of the Canille(superior). He ends his turn, by briging out Spiridonas. It is the begining of my turn. I untap both minions in torpor Gitane attempts to play Rapid Healing to leave torpor, Rebekka Wakes with Evenings Freshness and plays Enhanced Senses to block. Rapid Healing says combat doesn't occur, therefore I can not play Form of the Mist, correct? Assuming so, Gitean is desblorized, which activates the Soul Gem. I think the vampire comes into play immediately, and doesn't have to wait untill the influence phase. Is this also correct? Assuming so, the vampire drawn for the Soul Gem is Camile (another copy). Being younger she comes into play and contests the Camille already there. If this is the case, the camille in torpor can't take any actions this turn, since she and her retainer have eft play. My question is when can I get one of the Camilles back. On my next untap, I will forgo one camille, do I have to pay for the one I keep? Does the one I keep come into play immediately, or not for another full turn? Thanks, Jason

In article <19980228215...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, SirTemple <sirt...@aol.com> wrote: >This came up today, and I wanted an official responce. Well, I'm not official, but I'm sure LSJ (blessings upon him and peace) will duly chastise me if I stray from orthodoxy. >The Setting: >I'm at 7 pool with Camille Devereux and Gitane St. Claire in torpor. Badger >was just influenced out last turn. Camille has one blood and Tasha Morgan, >Gitane has 0 blood, a fame, the Soul Gem of Etrius, and J.S.Simmons. >My predator has just finished bleeding me with Rebekka, Chantry Elder of >Munich, who has a pulse of the Canille(superior). He ends his turn, by briging >out Spiridonas. >It is the begining of my turn. >I untap both minions in torpor >Gitane attempts to play Rapid Healing to leave torpor, Rebekka Wakes with >Evenings Freshness and plays Enhanced Senses to block. >Rapid Healing says combat doesn't occur, therefore I can not play Form of the >Mist, correct? Correct; Rebekka's controller has the option to diablerize instead. >Assuming so, Gitean is desblorized, which activates the Soul Gem. >I think the vampire comes into play immediately, and doesn't have to wait >untill the influence phase. Is this also correct? Correct. >Assuming so, the vampire drawn for the Soul Gem is Camile (another copy). >Being younger she comes into play and contests the Camille already there. >If this is the case, the camille in torpor can't take any actions this turn, >since she and her retainer have eft play. My question is when can I get one of >the Camilles back. On my next untap, I will forgo one camille, do I have to >pay for the one I keep? Does the one I keep come into play immediately, or not >for another full turn? From the Sabbat-updated rules, at <http://members.aol.com/bbretall/jyhad/rules/rules_2_7.htm> A. UNTAP PHASE (6.1) [12.1] [these bytes sacrificed to Shub-Internet, Black Router of the 'net with a thousand ports! Ia!] 2. If you have a contested card which all other Methuselahs have yielded, it becomes uncontested (controlled) and is untapped. (15) 3. Take the following steps in any order. (6.1) [12.1] [Ia!] b. Contest or Yield your contested cards and titles. (16) [12.1] i. Pay one pool for each unique card that you are Contesting. (16) [8] [Ia!] iii. Burn any card that you are yielding, along with any other cards or blood on that yielded card. (15) [8] So you don't get to yield Camille (A) until your next untap phase, and you don't get Camille (B) back until the untap phase after that. gomi -- kono sora wo daite kagayaku, shounen yo shinwa ni nare.

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > In article <19980228215...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, > SirTemple <sirt...@aol.com> wrote: > >This came up today, and I wanted an official responce. > > Well, I'm not official, but I'm sure LSJ (blessings upon him and peace) will > duly chastise me if I stray from orthodoxy. > > >The Setting: > >I'm at 7 pool with Camille Devereux and Gitane St. Claire in torpor. Badger > >was just influenced out last turn. Camille has one blood and Tasha Morgan, > >Gitane has 0 blood, a fame, the Soul Gem of Etrius, and J.S.Simmons. > >My predator has just finished bleeding me with Rebekka, Chantry Elder of > >Munich, who has a pulse of the Canille(superior). He ends his turn, by briging > >out Spiridonas. > >It is the begining of my turn. > >I untap both minions in torpor > >Gitane attempts to play Rapid Healing to leave torpor, Rebekka Wakes with > >Evenings Freshness and plays Enhanced Senses to block. > >Rapid Healing says combat doesn't occur, therefore I can not play Form of the > >Mist, correct? > > Correct; Rebekka's controller has the option to diablerize instead. You speak the truth. > >Assuming so, Gitean is desblorized, which activates the Soul Gem. > >I think the vampire comes into play immediately, and doesn't have to wait > >untill the influence phase. Is this also correct? > > Correct. No. When the bearer of the Soul Gem is diablerized, the Gem is burned with no other effect (VTES card text). This text seems to be in error (if anyone recalls my lengthy explanation on VTES-L), but there it is. I'm seeing if the RT cares to issue errata to fix it (making work as it did in the Jyhad printing). But that takes time. Remainder of this analysis taken as if Soul Gem still functioned as it did in Jyhad. Note that this is not official: > >Assuming so, the vampire drawn for the Soul Gem is Camile (another copy). > >Being younger she comes into play and contests the Camille already there. > >If this is the case, the camille in torpor can't take any actions this turn, > >since she and her retainer have eft play. My question is when can I get one of > >the Camilles back. On my next untap, I will forgo one camille, do I have to > >pay for the one I keep? Does the one I keep come into play immediately, or not > >for another full turn? > > From the Sabbat-updated rules, at > <http://members.aol.com/bbretall/jyhad/rules/rules_2_7.htm> > > A. UNTAP PHASE (6.1) [12.1] > > 2. If you have a contested card which all other Methuselahs have yielded, > it becomes uncontested (controlled) and is untapped. (15) > 3. Take the following steps in any order. (6.1) [12.1] > > b. Contest or Yield your contested cards and titles. (16) [12.1] > i. Pay one pool for each unique card that you are Contesting. (16) [8] > > iii. Burn any card that you are yielding, along with any other cards > or blood on that yielded card. (15) [8] > > So you don't get to yield Camille (A) until your next untap phase, and > you don't get Camille (B) back until the untap phase after that. Correct, assuming that you pay 1 pool to contest Camille B in the same untap that you yield Camille A. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

In article <34FAB6...@wizards.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: >Gomi no Sensei wrote: >> Correct. >No. When the bearer of the Soul Gem is diablerized, the Gem is burned >with no other effect (VTES card text). This text seems to be in error >(if anyone recalls my lengthy explanation on VTES-L), but there it is. >I'm seeing if the RT cares to issue errata to fix it (making work as >it did in the Jyhad printing). But that takes time. Aack. I warn't aware of that, owning only the Jyhad Gems. O, those wacky text changes. >Remainder of this analysis taken as if Soul Gem still functioned as >it did in Jyhad. Note that this is not official: >> From the Sabbat-updated rules, at >> <http://members.aol.com/bbretall/jyhad/rules/rules_2_7.htm> >> A. UNTAP PHASE (6.1) [12.1] >> 2. If you have a contested card which all other Methuselahs have yielded, >> it becomes uncontested (controlled) and is untapped. (15) >> 3. Take the following steps in any order. (6.1) [12.1] >> b. Contest or Yield your contested cards and titles. (16) [12.1] >> i. Pay one pool for each unique card that you are Contesting. (16) [8] >> iii. Burn any card that you are yielding, along with any other cards >> or blood on that yielded card. (15) [8] >> So you don't get to yield Camille (A) until your next untap phase, and >> you don't get Camille (B) back until the untap phase after that. >Correct, assuming that you pay 1 pool to contest Camille B in the >same untap that you yield Camille A. Um...I'm slightly confoozled. since under 3b, the steps i or iii can be taken in any order, couldn't one yield camille A first, then, since camille b is no longer contested, not pay for it? [ quoted text not captured ]

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > >> A. UNTAP PHASE (6.1) [12.1] > >> 2. If you have a contested card which all other Methuselahs have yielded, > >> it becomes uncontested (controlled) and is untapped. (15) > >> 3. Take the following steps in any order. (6.1) [12.1] > >> b. Contest or Yield your contested cards and titles. (16) [12.1] > >> i. Pay one pool for each unique card that you are Contesting. (16) [8] > >> iii. Burn any card that you are yielding, along with any other cards > >> or blood on that yielded card. (15) [8] > > >> So you don't get to yield Camille (A) until your next untap phase, and > >> you don't get Camille (B) back until the untap phase after that. > > >Correct, assuming that you pay 1 pool to contest Camille B in the > >same untap that you yield Camille A. > > Um...I'm slightly confoozled. since under 3b, the steps i or iii can be > taken in any order, couldn't one yield camille A first, then, since > camille b is no longer contested, not pay for it? Camille B is still contested - she stops being contested during step A.2. of your next untap (which is why you won't have to pay a second blood at that time). [ quoted text not captured ]

Assuming so, Gitean is desblorized, which activates the Soul Gem. > Thanks, > Jason In addition to LSJs response the Soul Gem is not activated by diablerie according to the most recent card text, so this problem really solves itself. Karl