[Deck] Pistolero!

So after the abject failure of my +1 strength/CEL deck y'all helped me out with a couple weeks ago (too slow, vampires too big, too vulnerable to other types of combat), I stripped it for parts, and, deciding to take advantage of the cool new Concealed Weapon, I reassembled the wreckage as a new CEL/gun deck. Granted, it is built around the exact same Rush engine I always use (one could even claim it was "modular"...), but it has cool new stuff! Pistolero! Crypt: 1x Angel (2) cel 1x Kanya Akhtar (2) cel 2x Sarah Brando (3) CEL 2x Victor Toliver (4) CEL 2x Jimmy Dunn (4) CEL 1x Parmenides (4) CEL 1x Dodd (5) CEL 1x Rigby (5) CEL 1x Volker (5) CEL Avg of 3.75 4x Haven Uncovered 4x Blood Doll 2x Dreams of the Sphinx 1x Fame 1x Slave Auction 12x Bum's Rush 8x Concealed Weapon 8x .44 Magnum 8x Taste of Vitae 8x Computer Hacking 10x Psyche! 10x Blur 8x Pursuit 6x Side Slip Pretty straight forward--The crypt seems reasonable--I could use some of (or both of) the 1 point caitif with cel instead of the 2's, but I figure 2 blood gives more room for error when Blur costs a blood (that, and I could use Carter instead of Kanya, but I found his blue border *way* too garish for the crypt...) I was thinking about Black Cat instead of, say, Rigby, but I don't think her special works with Concealed (although still is handy if I wanna waste an action to equip), and I'm not real fond of Black Cats's picture. I kinda like the Slave Auction, as if I get it early, it is like 4 free pool, especially considering how few master cards there are, although it might simply be better off as a Blood Doll or a Fame. The minion cards seem pretty obvious, although I'd consider swapping out 2 Blur for 2 more Pursuit, for extra manuvers in a pinch, although there are plenty of manuvers already, considering the guns and the Bum's Rushes. Any ideas? Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "she tore down Paris on the tail of Thom Paine but the left wing's broken and the right's insane" -Bowie

Well, have been it's looking like i've done the way back. I have been playing a mono CEL guns deck for a few months and turned out for the +1 strentgh deck you've recently published, as Miller is one of my favourite vamps though I've included him in just one pro-cel deck, which granted me a few ideas, but there are a few things that nullifies the deck (cailean comes to my mind) I'll focused the deck toward the blocking side, that is: 4x atonement, 4x sport bike. And, as this deck has serious probailities to put 4+ minions in play per game, raise the total number of permanents. <snipped> > Granted, it is built around the exact same Rush engine I always use (one > could even claim it was "modular"...), but it has cool new stuff! > > Pistolero! > > Crypt: > 1x Angel (2) cel > 1x Kanya Akhtar (2) cel > 2x Sarah Brando (3) CEL > 2x Victor Toliver (4) CEL > 2x Jimmy Dunn (4) CEL > 1x Parmenides (4) CEL > 1x Dodd (5) CEL > 1x Rigby (5) CEL > 1x Volker (5) CEL WHERE IS BLACK CAT??????????????????????????????? Her special works preety well with concealed weapon, afaik. Also, Brachah is a relly cool adition: That inferior for is always ignored by kiss of ra users. Thus, instead of dodd, perhaps? you don't look to pack any !brujah permanents... > > Avg of 3.75 > > 4x Haven Uncovered > 4x Blood Doll > 2x Dreams of the Sphinx > 1x Fame > 1x Slave Auction > 2x Heidelberg and a 2x guardian angels could prove usefull, instead of those havens: You pack enough combat payload to banish almost any vamps worthy to be shot in play with a relative good number of bum's rushes, such as 12 :P. Wouldn't TiTR be more usefull than a single fame?With a fame, you can just out 1 player, TiTR aids you oust almost everyone in play. Also, as you'll have a good number of "spare" actions, why not Powerbase:Montreal instead of the slave auction? it will serve you preety well at every step of the game. > 12x Bum's Rush > 8x Concealed Weapon > 8x .44 Magnum > 8x Taste of Vitae > 8x Computer Hacking > 10x Psyche! > 10x Blur > 8x Pursuit > 6x Side Slip > Drop those 8x computer hackings. Instead, pack bleeding permanents: tasha and JS and 2 laptops. With the aid of heidelberg, it could turn for 2x bleed for 3 per turn at the later stage of the game, thus this deck will regain strength as turns passes by. Bum's rushes and cel combat allows the cycling to pull those permanents relatively fast. That will leave room for 2 copies of Pier 13 and 2 more pursuits.Or even ammo cards :-P > Any ideas? Hope those are relevant > > > Peter D Bakija > PD...@bigplanet.com > http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 > > "she tore down Paris on the tail of Thom Paine > but the left wing's broken and the right's insane" > -Bowie > Nice quote Smiling Tom, the Anarch

(snip deck) Hey I played a similar deck at an unofficial tournament in Tempe last weekend! Gotta love the new concealed weapon. It's almost a crime that decks like this are so effective. I think my version doesn't even bother with the Psyche's and thus used manstopper rounds in it's place. Of course this was partly because I had no 5 caps in my crypt (indeed, no vamp above 3)--my thinking was with 6 or 7 available minions, even the slimiest presence deck runs out of the s:ce after the 3rd or 4th rush attempt. I was generally right-on. I've been tempted to make a gun deck with Joaquin Murietta and Ruth Mcginley (the two vamps in CE with nifty gun-specific specials.) Anyone else tried decks with them? Suggestion: replace a 2-3 of the computer hacks with some Speed of Thought. I used it when I absolutely positively wanted the edge, which as a very rare coincidence (since we normally have a vote heavy metagame) was all that I needed to burn to survive bloodhunts after Nik or someone committed diablerie. Otherwise... Al's Army Aparatus came in handy on a few occasions in my deck when I had the 2-3 concealed weapons in my hand but no gun. And it's free! -Matt

In message <b5ob1v$1jm$1...@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>, "Tom,Mad&Co" <t...@almadrava.net> writes: >Drop those 8x computer hackings. Instead, pack bleeding permanents: tasha >and JS and 2 laptops. Having no stealth beyond the inherent +1, these are easily blocked. Sure, you get a vampire beaten up (assuming you don't Obedience or have combat defence), but you either get beaten up now, or get beaten up on a Rush. So my choice is likely between letting you get extra bleed out and losing a vampire, or not letting you get extra bleed out and losing a vampire. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 Hi! I'm Nancy Drew! You must be the Hardy Boys! 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

Tom,Mad&Co wrote: > WHERE IS BLACK CAT??????????????????????????????? > Her special works preety well with concealed weapon, afaik. > Also, Brachah is a relly cool adition: That inferior for is always ignored > by kiss of ra users. Thus, instead of dodd, perhaps? you don't look to pack > any !brujah permanents... I don't think her special works with Concealed, as her special works when you take an equip action, and playing Concealed isn't an equip action. If it does work with a Concealed, she so goes in. On the other hand, I have been considering Kalinda, who's special ability is really good in this sort of deck. > 2x Heidelberg and a 2x guardian angels could prove usefull, instead of those > havens: You pack enough combat payload to banish almost any vamps worthy to > be shot in play with a relative good number of bum's rushes, such as 12 :P. The Heidelburg is a good idea. I usually shy away from being reactive in this sort of deck--the +1 intercept isn't really good if you don't have untaps, unless you leave minions untapped, and then you have to hope that your opponent's don't have more than +1 stealth. I like killing them on my terms :-) > > Wouldn't TiTR be more usefull than a single fame?With a fame, you can just > out 1 player, TiTR aids you oust almost everyone in play. True, true. Sadly, I only own the 1 TiTR, and it is in another deck... > Also, as you'll have a good number of "spare" actions, why not > Powerbase:Montreal instead of the slave auction? it will serve you preety > well at every step of the game. Not a bad idea, but I kinda don't wanna have to protect it--I like being able to use all of my spare actions (should any come up) just bleeding forward. Thanks for the comments! [ quoted text not captured ]

Ped Xing wrote: > Suggestion: replace a 2-3 of the computer hacks with some Speed of > Thought. I used it when I absolutely positively wanted the edge, which > as a very rare coincidence (since we normally have a vote heavy > metagame) was all that I needed to burn to survive bloodhunts after > Nik or someone committed diablerie. Not a bad deal--I kinda like that Speed of Thought. Not a good card, generally speaking, but certainly useful in such a situation. > > Otherwise... Al's Army Aparatus came in handy on a few occasions in my > deck when I had the 2-3 concealed weapons in my hand but no gun. And > it's free! I always like the Al's Army Aparatus/Waste Management Operation gag--put a good card on the bottom of your deck, get a gun, shuffle your deck. Maybe I can find a way to fit in both... [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <BAA5281C.D5ED%PD...@bigplanet.com>, Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> mumbled something about: >Tom,Mad&Co wrote: >> WHERE IS BLACK CAT??????????????????????????????? >> Her special works preety well with concealed weapon, afaik. >> Also, Brachah is a relly cool adition: That inferior for is always ignored >> by kiss of ra users. Thus, instead of dodd, perhaps? you don't look to pack >> any !brujah permanents... > >I don't think her special works with Concealed, as her special works when >you take an equip action, and playing Concealed isn't an equip action. If it >does work with a Concealed, she so goes in. dude! concealed weapon text: "Equip this minion with a weapon card ..." DUDE! D U D E! -- "There's no gray. There's just white that's got grubby." -- T.P.

Derek Ray wrote: > dude! > > concealed weapon text: > > "Equip this minion with a weapon card ..." > > DUDE! > > D U D E! So Black Cat *does* work with Concealed? The version of Black Cat I have sititng here says: "Equip actions with Black Cat cost 1 less pool..." Using a Concealed is not an "equip action". I'm confused. [ quoted text not captured ]

I wrote: > "Equip actions with Black Cat cost 1 less pool..." > > Using a Concealed is not an "equip action". > > I'm confused. And I solve my own dilemna by looking up Black Cat on the monger site and discovering that her current text is actually: "Equipping Black Cat costs 1 less pool..." Gosh darn those pesky new wordings. So Rigby is out and Black Cat is in. Fantastic! [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote: > And I solve my own dilemna by looking up Black Cat on the monger site > and discovering that her current text is actually: > > "Equipping Black Cat costs 1 less pool..." > > Gosh darn those pesky new wordings. Yeah, those darn new VTES (the set just after Jyhad) wordings! ;) > Peter D Bakija > PD...@bigplanet.com > http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 Kevin M. "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

>Not a bad deal--I kinda like that Speed of Thought. Not a good card, >generally speaking, but certainly useful in such a situation. Speed of Thought is kewl. I used to have a !Tremere/Gargoyle Celerity deck which packed a couple of copies. I always thought it was kind of cute when your Pikachu Gargoyle was able to zoom past all opposition with a Speed of Thought. In fact, the name for that deck was something like "My Pokeball Is Too Slow!" Halcyan 2 Gotta catch 'em all!

>4x Haven Uncovered >4x Blood Doll >2x Dreams of the Sphinx >1x Fame >1x Slave Auction Others have already suggested it (and I also mentioned it for your other CEL deck) but I think 2 x Fame and 2 x TitR is good. Even though you're out of Tensions. >12x Bum's Rush >8x Concealed Weapon >8x .44 Magnum >8x Taste of Vitae >8x Computer Hacking >10x Psyche! >10x Blur >8x Pursuit >6x Side Slip I would personally go with Flashes instead of Pursuits. With CEL and Flash, you can get in a lot of extra shots. If you really like the Pursuits, then I'd ditch some Blurs for Flashes instead. I'd also consider putting in some Preternatural Evasion though it's not as important with your disposable weenies. Similarly, in my CEL deck I use some Rapid Thought but that's only b/c my minions (mainly Princes) aren't quite as disposable. >I kinda like the Slave Auction, as if I get it early, it is like 4 free >pool, especially considering how few master cards there are, although it >might simply be better off as a Blood Doll or a Fame. Maybe a Secret Horde would be better? Or not. d00d! One other thing your deck is like so totally missing is Dragon's Breath Rounds. You should definitely pack a few just in case so you can burn annoying vampires or at least ensure M.A.D. in case you run up against spitting Assamites or Tzimisce with bad breath. Halcyan 2

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> escribió en el mensaje news:pQWfISBA...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <b5ob1v$1jm$1...@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>, > "Tom,Mad&Co" <t...@almadrava.net> writes: > >Drop those 8x computer hackings. Instead, pack bleeding permanents: tasha > >and JS and 2 laptops. > > Having no stealth beyond the inherent +1, these are easily blocked. > Sure, you get a vampire beaten up (assuming you don't Obedience or have > combat defence), but you either get beaten up now, or get beaten up on a > Rush. > > So my choice is likely between letting you get extra bleed out and > losing a vampire, or not letting you get extra bleed out and losing a > vampire. > You will not be able to block them *always*. This deck offers 4-5 minion actions per turn.If you can manage your time, you are able to equip with these. Also , it's just 4 actions in the deck, that 99% of the time will prove more usefull than computer hacks.

Awright! > Crypt: > 1x Angel (2) cel > 1x Kanya Akhtar (2) cel > 2x Sarah Brando (3) CEL > 2x Victor Toliver (4) CEL > 2x Jimmy Dunn (4) CEL > 1x Parmenides (4) CEL > 1x Dodd (5) CEL > 1x Rigby (5) CEL > 1x Volker (5) CEL I'd ditch one Brando, Paremendies and the 2nd Tolliver for 3x Black Cat. Also, I'd turf out Angel and Kanya for Antoinette the Chump and Nik - both cheaper. > Avg of 3.75 > > 4x Haven Uncovered > 4x Blood Doll > 2x Dreams of the Sphinx > 1x Fame > 1x Slave Auction How about Als Army Apparatus? Worth at least one. Also, Waste Management is cool, as is Gang Territory. Less Havens. A Cel skillcard for the cheapies.... all slots that are "nice to have". Slave Auction is a waste - go for another Blood Doll instead. Pretty Critical is at least 2x Heidleburg and a DI for that "Peace Treaty". > 12x Bum's Rush > 8x Concealed Weapon > 8x .44 Magnum > 8x Taste of Vitae > 8x Computer Hacking > 10x Psyche! > 10x Blur > 8x Pursuit > 6x Side Slip Less (much less) Blur (about 6). A mix of Flash and Pursuit (6 of each?) rather than just one. A bit less bleed. Some Legals rather than just Hacks. That extra bleed is well worth it (how about 3 of each?). Dragons Breath x2. Maybe an Arms Dealer. You never know when you might need an Ally. A bit less rush (you're also bleeding) - to about 10. Leathers? DH

Peter D Bakija wrote: > Tom,Mad&Co wrote: >>WHERE IS BLACK CAT??????????????????????????????? >>Her special works preety well with concealed weapon, afaik. > > I don't think her special works with Concealed, as her special works when > you take an equip action, and playing Concealed isn't an equip action. If it > does work with a Concealed, she so goes in. Put her in, coach. Black Cat: "Equipping Black Cat costs 1 less pool" No "action" requirement - any equipping will be affected by the special. Black Cat can use Concealed Weapon to equip with a Gas-Powered Chainsaw for free, or can use Concealed Weapon to equip with a Combat Shotgun for 2 pool. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In message <b5pi11$4pl$1...@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>, "Tom,Mad&Co" <t...@almadrava.net> writes: >You will not be able to block them *always*. This deck offers 4-5 minion >actions per turn. Who ever blocks things *always*? Intelligent play blocks critical actions. If your transient bleed modifiers (in the sense of transient cards, including action cards, rather than necessarily action modifiers) become permanents, the intelligent response is to sift your intercept through so that you block those permanents coming out. Blocking all the actions would just be plain stupid. But with four bleed permanents, so maybe 2 or 3 coming out if you don't get through the whole deck, and only being able to generate the inherent +1 stealth on them, being able to generate +1 intercept for them is not too difficult. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija wrote: > So after the abject failure of my +1 strength/CEL deck y'all helped > me out with a couple weeks ago (too slow, vampires too big, too > vulnerable to other types of combat), I stripped it for parts, and, > deciding to take advantage of the cool new Concealed Weapon, I > reassembled the wreckage as a new CEL/gun deck. > > Granted, it is built around the exact same Rush engine I always use > (one could even claim it was "modular"...), but it has cool new stuff! > > Pistolero! > > Avg of 3.75 > > 4x Haven Uncovered > 4x Blood Doll > 2x Dreams of the Sphinx > 1x Fame > 1x Slave Auction More Fame, like 2 more. > > 12x Bum's Rush > 8x Concealed Weapon > 8x .44 Magnum > 8x Taste of Vitae > 8x Computer Hacking > 10x Psyche! > 10x Blur > 8x Pursuit > 6x Side Slip I would need more dodges than this. People are always playing anti-gun these days. I don't like Blur in weenie decks. I would play with 4 Blur, and 6 Side Strike. You lose a little damage, but you gain flexibility. You might start needing more manuvers, in which case you could swap 2 Sideslips for pursuits. > > Pretty straight forward--The crypt seems reasonable--I could use some > of (or both of) the 1 point caitif with cel instead of the 2's, but I > figure 2 blood gives more room for error when Blur costs a blood > (that, and I could use Carter instead of Kanya, but I found his blue > border *way* too garish for the crypt...) You are way too stylish. I spend most of the time looking at other people's pool, I mean cards. You could go with weenie weenie(nik, Antionette, Kanya, and Carter), and a few celerity skill cards, but then you would be playing even more sleazy. Like me! > Any ideas? Dodge, Blurs costs too much, use more weenies for more effectiveness, but the deck is effective enough already, more fame. Colin Riggs

Kevin M. wrote: > Yeah, those darn new VTES (the set just after Jyhad) wordings! ;) I tell ya. It turns out I don't even own a VTES Black Cat (only Jyhad), so never noticed the change. I guess this is more ammo for the "it is good to make complete sets" arguments :-) Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "she tore down Paris on the tail of Thom Paine [ quoted text not captured ]

Halcyan 2 wrote: > Speed of Thought is kewl. I used to have a !Tremere/Gargoyle Celerity deck > which packed a couple of copies. I always thought it was kind of cute when > your > Pikachu Gargoyle was able to zoom past all opposition with a Speed of Thought. > In fact, the name for that deck was something like "My Pokeball Is Too Slow!" Heh heh. Poke-vampires... [ quoted text not captured ]

Halcyan 2 wrote: > I would personally go with Flashes instead of Pursuits. Ya think? I figure the Pursuits are solid, as if I need a mnauver, I got a manuver, and if I need a free extra strike, I got a free extra strike. The Flash is good, but then I find myself needing to press, and needing another manuver, and possibly getting damaged more. But I certainly see how the Flashes could be just as good. > d00d! One other thing your deck is like so totally missing is Dragon's Breath > Rounds. I considered that, but then figured I didn't wanna burn my Magnums. But then I considered it again, and might stick a couple in. [ quoted text not captured ]

Tom,Mad&Co wrote: > You will not be able to block them *always*. This deck offers 4-5 minion > actions per turn.If you can manage your time, you are able to equip with > these. I generally find that I don't have that many actions to speare in decks like this, as forward momentum is really important. If you talke too long ousting your first prey, your grand prey gets too big. > Also , it's just 4 actions in the deck, that 99% of the time will > prove more usefull than computer hacks. The computer hacks in such a deck are surprisingly effective--bleed speed and freely cyclable actions that everyone can take. I always figure this sort of deck needs to be fast, and hacking is pretty fast. [ quoted text not captured ]

hamdamcwa wrote: > I'd ditch one Brando, Paremendies and the 2nd Tolliver for 3x Black > Cat. Also, I'd turf out Angel and Kanya for Antoinette the Chump and > Nik - both cheaper. I considered the multiple Black Cat angle, but then figured that she is a 5 who gets a Magnum for 1, totaling 6 pool for a CEL vamp with a gun. To put in a second Black Cat (well, without making more duplicates than I want), I'd have to replace a 4 with her, and a 4 with a magnum also costs 6 pool, but requires 1 fewer transfer. Sure, if I fit in Hidelburg, I can start profiting on the 4th gun I launder through Black Cat, but that just seems like wayyy too much work. I could just buckle down and replace Dodd with a second Black Cat, but then I have 4 pairs of doubles. But it might be worth it. > How about Als Army Apparatus? Worth at least one. Yeah, I am strongly considering replacing the Slave Auction with an AAA. Especially if I put in a second Black Cat. > Also, Waste > Management is cool, I totally love the WMO/AAA synergy that gets lots of cards back in your deck and shuffled up, but I don't know if I have the space. Maybe I could remove a Haven. >Pretty Critical is at > least 2x Heidleburg and a DI for that "Peace Treaty". Interesting. While certainly a possibility, I don't think I have *ever* seen a Peace Treaty in a game that wasn't a booster draft game... Thanks! [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > Put her in, coach. Right on, man. I saw her "new" wording, and became real pleased. > > Black Cat: "Equipping Black Cat costs 1 less pool" > > No "action" requirement - any equipping will be affected by the special. > > Black Cat can use Concealed Weapon to equip with a Gas-Powered Chainsaw > for free, or can use Concealed Weapon to equip with a Combat Shotgun > for 2 pool. Thanks for the info! [ quoted text not captured ]

Colin Riggs wrote: > Dodge, Blurs costs too much, use more weenies for more effectiveness, but > the deck is effective enough already, more fame. Yeah, I am defenitely considering more dodge, but currently, the local deck pool has lots of close combat but not much long range. I should probably be more worried about DotB, however... [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com wrote: >> I would personally go with Flashes instead of Pursuits. > >Ya think? I figure the Pursuits are solid, as if I need a mnauver, I got a >manuver, and if I need a free extra strike, I got a free extra strike. The >Flash is good, but then I find myself needing to press, and needing another >manuver, and possibly getting damaged more. I also like Flash better. Round 1: Maneuver to long with Flash, strike gun, press with Flash Round 2: Maneuver to long with gun, strike gun. It's better than Pursuit against fortitude (Skin of Steel), but not as good against S:CE because you use the Flash up front. But also, with Flash you can manuever/press as many times as you have Flashes. Pursuit is only once. Personal preference I guess. Jason Babbitt

In message <BAA64555.D676%PD...@bigplanet.com>, Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> mumbled something about: >I considered the multiple Black Cat angle, but then figured that she is a 5 >who gets a Magnum for 1, totaling 6 pool for a CEL vamp with a gun. To put >in a second Black Cat (well, without making more duplicates than I want), >I'd have to replace a 4 with her, and a 4 with a magnum also costs 6 pool, >but requires 1 fewer transfer. Sure, if I fit in Hidelburg, I can start >profiting on the 4th gun I launder through Black Cat, but that just seems >like wayyy too much work. How many minions would you like to have guns? If you save on 3 guns by railroading the equip action through Black Cat, that's one copy of Sarah Brando that you can influence out for the same cost. I don't think I'd put 3 in, though. Probably only 2, unless I was intending to go whole-hog and stick 5 of her in, along with a bunch of cel weenies (working deck name: Pussy Galore) who can easily spare the actions to fetch the toys off her. And of course a few Raves in the deck would be mandatory. ("i'd like to take a +1 stealth action to give all my ready minions a gun...") >> How about Als Army Apparatus? Worth at least one. > >Yeah, I am strongly considering replacing the Slave Auction with an AAA. >Especially if I put in a second Black Cat. Mucho Mandatory. Al's > Waste Management. >> Also, Waste >> Management is cool, > >I totally love the WMO/AAA synergy that gets lots of cards back in your deck >and shuffled up, but I don't know if I have the space. Maybe I could remove >a Haven. Weeeelll... I don't know about that. WMO doesn't get lots of cards back in your deck. It just gets a few. Sure, that's great at the tail end of the game, but this style of deck doesn't need cards to be effective. It has some of the best permanents for playing without a library. >>Pretty Critical is at >> least 2x Heidleburg and a DI for that "Peace Treaty". > >Interesting. While certainly a possibility, I don't think I have *ever* seen >a Peace Treaty in a game that wasn't a booster draft game... I stick one in a lot of decks these days. Stupid weenie CEL. =) [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <el028vsq47jnrsdak...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> mumbled something about: >actions to fetch the toys off her. And of course a few Raves in the >deck would be mandatory. ("i'd like to take a +1 stealth action to give >all my ready minions a gun...") Which, thinking about it, is probably one of THE best ways to get into combat (that doesn't involve Bum's Rush or the like). "you want to WHAT? oh, fuck, no, i'm blocking that" [ quoted text not captured ]

On 25 Mar 2003, Jason Babbitt wrote: > I also like Flash better. I like it all. ;) I'd either up the number of Psyches or Flashes, but then I plan to see Trap/UP most games, and I'm rarely disappointed. Oh hey, Pete, speaking of Psyche: might you consider Jalal? I know he's a lurching, drooling, stomping six cap, but a built-in Psyche is ooooober hot, especially with guns. Then, you could put in that Kalinda you were talking about. And *then* you could almost call it an Assamite deck! Chicks dig the guys who play Assamites at tournaments; I think it's called "Nightingale" something or other.... David Cherryholmes Duke Radiology P.E.T. Facility (919) 684-7714 david.che...@duke.edu

<Snip> > >Pretty Critical is at > > least 2x Heidleburg and a DI for that "Peace Treaty". > > Interesting. While certainly a possibility, I don't think I have *ever* seen > a Peace Treaty in a game that wasn't a booster draft game... Yeah, but hence the ironical "..."'s. You know I mean the one card you weren't expecting that totally ruins your game: DotB / Terror Frenzy, Up Yours!, Peace Treaty, Sleight of Hand, Machine Blitz, Anarchist Uprising... etc etc etc. "DI - saving your ass by the skin of your teeth since 1996" ;) DH

Hamandeggs wrote : <Snip> > DotB / Terror Frenzy, > Up Yours!, Peace Treaty, Sleight of Hand, Machine Blitz, Anarchist > Uprising... etc etc etc. I'm currently loving Terror Frenzy, what a great card. Rob -- Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com http://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

> So after the abject failure of my +1 strength/CEL deck > y'all helped me out > with a couple weeks ago (too slow, vampires too big, too > vulnerable to other > types of combat), I stripped it for parts, and, deciding > to take advantage > of the cool new Concealed Weapon, I reassembled the wreckage as a new > CEL/gun deck. > > Granted, it is built around the exact same Rush engine I > always use (one > could even claim it was "modular"...), but it has cool new stuff! > > Pistolero! > You know, I wanted to make a big weenie CEL sabbat deck... If I owned a few hungry coyote I would try it... The basic concept is minion tapping, and influencing more and more vampires... All of the 7+ cap CEL vampires... Only master cards in it would be 12 minion taps, 3 hungry coyote, the partheon, imformation highway and 2 waste management... Only pursuit, side strikes, a few blurs and tasting... Then I swarm... With the Waste management; getting guns, cel combat cards and minion taps back into my deck... Would be annoying at the least... Would be ugly at best... =D Would even try to make it if I had 2 hungry coyotes... S:ce would be annoying, but combat is secondary, this will be just a big weenie deck... Starts slow, so ppl aren't too worried... CEL with gun is hunting? Do I really wanna block that? But once I can get a 5th, or 6th minion out... Then ppl will start looking my way... And when I can get 7? ewww... [ quoted text not captured ]

"Peter D Bakija" <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote in message news:BAA4F8A9.D5B9%PD...@bigplanet.com... > So after the abject failure of my +1 strength/CEL deck y'all helped me out > with a couple weeks ago (too slow, vampires too big, too vulnerable to other > types of combat), I stripped it for parts, and, deciding to take advantage > of the cool new Concealed Weapon, I reassembled the wreckage as a new > CEL/gun deck. > > Granted, it is built around the exact same Rush engine I always use (one > could even claim it was "modular"...), but it has cool new stuff! > > Pistolero! > > Crypt: > 1x Angel (2) cel > 1x Kanya Akhtar (2) cel > 2x Sarah Brando (3) CEL > 2x Victor Toliver (4) CEL > 2x Jimmy Dunn (4) CEL > 1x Parmenides (4) CEL > 1x Dodd (5) CEL > 1x Rigby (5) CEL > 1x Volker (5) CEL Must.... Resist.... Can't.... What! No Ian Forestal? What with all the wacky discipline combos in this deck? I mean he is broken <sar>. -- Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

Derek Ray wrote: > How many minions would you like to have guns? > > If you save on 3 guns by railroading the equip action through Black Cat, > that's one copy of Sarah Brando that you can influence out for the same > cost. True, but you have to coutneract the cost of the Hiedelberg first. > > I don't think I'd put 3 in, though. Probably only 2, unless I was > intending to go whole-hog and stick 5 of her in, along with a bunch of > cel weenies (working deck name: Pussy Galore) who can easily spare the > actions to fetch the toys off her. And of course a few Raves in the > deck would be mandatory. ("i'd like to take a +1 stealth action to give > all my ready minions a gun...") Oooh. Raves! That's pretty cool. > I stick one in a lot of decks these days. Stupid weenie CEL. =) Heh heh. I'll see how this one works. Maybe I'll fill my foes with fear :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

David Cherryholmes wrote: > Oh hey, Pete, speaking of Psyche: might you consider Jalal? I know he's > a lurching, drooling, stomping six cap, but a built-in Psyche is ooooober > hot, especially with guns. Ooh, yeah! I was totally thinking about using him--his built in Psyche is pretty solid. Hmm... > > Then, you could put in that Kalinda you were talking about. And *then* > you could almost call it an Assamite deck! Chicks dig the guys who play > Assamites at tournaments; I think it's called "Nightingale" something or > other.... I always wanted to be cool for playing the Assamites! [ quoted text not captured ]

hamdamcwa wrote: > Yeah, but hence the ironical "..."'s. You know I mean the one card you > weren't expecting that totally ruins your game: DotB / Terror Frenzy, > Up Yours!, Peace Treaty, Sleight of Hand, Machine Blitz, Anarchist > Uprising... etc etc etc. Sometimes I miss out on the ironic punctuation. Which is sad, as I use it all the time. And then I'll be sad too, when I get killed by the Peace Treaty I never expected... [ quoted text not captured ]

XZealot wrote: > Must.... Resist.... Can't.... > > What! No Ian Forestal? What with all the wacky discipline combos in this > deck? I mean he is broken <sar>. BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAA. I, uh, I'm...BWAHAhahaahHAAHAHAAA. Ahem. BWAHAHHAAAA, Hack. Agh. Phew. That was a good one. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <BAA7B40B.D6E6%PD...@bigplanet.com>, Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> mumbled something about: >Derek Ray wrote: > >> How many minions would you like to have guns? >> >> If you save on 3 guns by railroading the equip action through Black Cat, >> that's one copy of Sarah Brando that you can influence out for the same >> cost. > >True, but you have to coutneract the cost of the Hiedelberg first. Screw Heidelberg. They can go fetch the guns off her themselves as an action. Celerity works pretty well as a defensive discipline, too, if someone feels like blocking, and the gun doesn't get burned that way. (Then again, Heidelberg pays for itself in other ways -- moving all the blood to the guy with the Blood Doll, for example.) >> I don't think I'd put 3 in, though. Probably only 2, unless I was >> intending to go whole-hog and stick 5 of her in, along with a bunch of >> cel weenies (working deck name: Pussy Galore) who can easily spare the >> actions to fetch the toys off her. And of course a few Raves in the >> deck would be mandatory. ("i'd like to take a +1 stealth action to give >> all my ready minions a gun...") > >Oooh. Raves! That's pretty cool. Rave has -always- been a good card; it just gets ignored if you're not using a toolboxy sort of deck. :) But there are a lot of times where you want to bring up one more vampire just to explode his blood onto a bunch of other people who need it. >> I stick one in a lot of decks these days. Stupid weenie CEL. =) > >Heh heh. I'll see how this one works. Maybe I'll fill my foes with fear :-) If not, you'll at least fill them with The Giggles. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> Then, you could put in that Kalinda you were talking about. And *then* >> you could almost call it an Assamite deck! Chicks dig the guys who play >> Assamites at tournaments; I think it's called "Nightingale" something or >> other.... > >I always wanted to be cool for playing the Assamites! No, no, no, no, NO! Assamites are like total losers man! =( Halcyan 2

Derek Ray wrote: > Screw Heidelberg. They can go fetch the guns off her themselves as an > action. Celerity works pretty well as a defensive discipline, too, if > someone feels like blocking, and the gun doesn't get burned that way. Reasonable. > > (Then again, Heidelberg pays for itself in other ways -- moving all the > blood to the guy with the Blood Doll, for example.) Also reasonable. > Rave has -always- been a good card; it just gets ignored if you're not > using a toolboxy sort of deck. :) But there are a lot of times where > you want to bring up one more vampire just to explode his blood onto a > bunch of other people who need it. Yeah--I don't think I have ever actually used one in practice, but I always kinda thought it should be good. > If not, you'll at least fill them with The Giggles. That seems most likely. [ quoted text not captured ]

Halcyan 2 wrote: > No, no, no, no, NO! Assamites are like total losers man! =( But they are all sexy, what with the hats and all... [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<pQWfISBA...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>... > In message <b5ob1v$1jm$1...@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>, > "Tom,Mad&Co" <t...@almadrava.net> writes: > >Drop those 8x computer hackings. Instead, pack bleeding permanents: tasha > >and JS and 2 laptops. > > Having no stealth beyond the inherent +1, these are easily blocked. > Sure, you get a vampire beaten up (assuming you don't Obedience or have > combat defence), but you either get beaten up now, or get beaten up on a > Rush. > > So my choice is likely between letting you get extra bleed out and > losing a vampire, or not letting you get extra bleed out and losing a > vampire. Why not use Cat Burglary? This might be one of the only decks imaginable in which it has a place, and I really hope that every card has *some* use. I really don't think it's worth the action to equip, but some alternative for Hack is certainly possible. And everyone knows the Brujah and like clans are great at s+b ;). Patrick Columbus, OH