rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Rulings on Psyche vs CE and Theft vs Allies

7 messages from 5 participants · 21 September 2001 – 24 September 2001
original thread on Google Groups

Shaun McIsaac

LSJ >John Whelan <jbwh...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote: >> LSJ, here's another "Illusions of the Kindred" question for you: >> Suppose my opponent plays "Illusions...." and I immediately follow by >> playing "Psyche" at superior to start a new combat with the minion for >> whom combat just ended. What happens? > >Good question. > >Based on the precedent of trying to play Fast Reaction after Hidden >Lurker (i.e.: Hidden Lurker precludes the play of Fast Reaction), I'd >have to say that Psyche cannot be played after Illusions of Kindred >(unless no combat results from the Illusions - when the crypt is empty). >By the time Illusions finishes up, you are no longer "at the end of >combat when both combatants..." - you are long past that combat. Hrm, if that is so, why can Psyche at superior stop a Form of Mist at superior? The form has you continuing the action, and clearly by the time that action has finished, you couldn't use a Psyche. What other effects does a Psyche stop and which ones doesn't it stop? Does it prevent the damage from a catatonic fear? The untap from majesty? To be consistent, Psyche should simply replace "combat ends" with "new combat begins" and either cancel *all* further effects from the CE card/ability, or cancel *no* further effects from the CE card/ability. Also, there is an opinion in this area that Theft of Vitae will steal life from allies. How is it that allies ignore all burn blood effects, but not steal blood effects?

James Coupe

In message <8f507d2e.01092...@posting.google.com>, Shaun McIsaac <smci...@onesourcecorp.com> writes >Hrm, if that is so, why can Psyche at superior stop a Form of Mist at >superior? The form has you continuing the action, and clearly by the >time that action has finished, you couldn't use a Psyche. Indeed - hence playing it just after combat ends, re-starting combat. >What other >effects does a Psyche stop and which ones doesn't it stop? Does it >prevent the damage from a catatonic fear? This occurs after combat ends - which does occur in the instance of a Catatonic Fear/Psyche! combo. > The untap from majesty? This is a strike effect, so happens when the strike resolves. > To >be consistent, Psyche should simply replace "combat ends" with "new >combat begins" Perhaps, but the card is played after combat has ended. >Also, there is an opinion in this area that Theft of Vitae will steal >life from allies. How is it that allies ignore all burn blood >effects, but not steal blood effects? The allies read the rules. See 6.4.5 in the rules book, regarding Steal Blood. The example makes it clear how this is handled. Burn blood does not have similar rules for it. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Close your eyes so you don't feel them EBD690ECD7A1F They don't need to see you cry B457CA213D7E6 I can't promise I will heal you, but if you want to I will try 68C3695D623D5D

Tetragrammaton

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> ha scritto nel messaggio > McIsaac <smci...@onesourcecorp.com> writes > >Hrm, if that is so, why can Psyche at superior stop a Form of Mist at > >superior? The form has you continuing the action, and clearly by the > >time that action has finished, you couldn't use a Psyche. > > Indeed - hence playing it just after combat ends, re-starting combat. > > >What other > >effects does a Psyche stop and which ones doesn't it stop? Does it > >prevent the damage from a catatonic fear? > > This occurs after combat ends - which does occur in the instance of a > Catatonic Fear/Psyche! combo. > > > The untap from majesty? > > This is a strike effect, so happens when the strike resolves. > Imho, that's untrue. It's stated that : If the strike does something in addition to ending combat, that something takes place just after the combat ends. [RTR 19970630] So the majesty's "burn 1 blood to untap" should be done *after* combat ends, i think....(LSJ ?) > > To > >be consistent, Psyche should simply replace "combat ends" with "new > >combat begins" Combat it's already "ended" by the time Psyche! is played. (carrion crows, torn signpost, wheater control etc. are just burned). > > Perhaps, but the card is played after combat has ended. > Agree. > >Also, there is an opinion in this area that Theft of Vitae will steal > >life from allies. How is it that allies ignore all burn blood > >effects, but not steal blood effects? > > The allies read the rules. See 6.4.5 in the rules book, regarding Steal > Blood. The example makes it clear how this is handled. > > Burn blood does not have similar rules for it. > Agree again. Emiliano, prince of Rome > --

LSJ

Tetragrammaton wrote: > If the strike does something in addition to ending combat, that something > takes place just after the combat ends. [RTR 19970630] > > So the majesty's "burn 1 blood to untap" should be done *after* combat ends, > i think....(LSJ ?) Good argument. The 1997 ruling is/was for things done for damage, since S:CE specifically precludes damage. It would also extend naturally to any other "strike-like" effect - effect directed at the target of the strike. It seems rather natural, however, that the striking minion pays the blood and untaps when the strike resolves. I'll put this on the RT list. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. ERC Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

James Coupe

In message <8WXq7.19409$Lp6.6...@news.infostrada.it>, Tetragrammaton <nospam_a...@hotmail.com> writes >> > The untap from majesty? >> >> This is a strike effect, so happens when the strike resolves. >> > >Imho, that's untrue. It was meant in the sense that the ending of combat is part of the resolution of the strike. The other part happens in sequence, but is still part of the resolution of the strike. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D When all the world seemed to sleep, why, why did you go? EBD690ECD7A1F Was it me? Was it you? B457CA213D7E6 Questions in a world of blue. 68C3695D623D5D

Tetragrammaton

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> ha scritto nel messaggio news:3BAC71E0...@white-wolf.com... > Tetragrammaton wrote: > > If the strike does something in addition to ending combat, that something > > takes place just after the combat ends. [RTR 19970630] > > > > So the majesty's "burn 1 blood to untap" should be done *after* combat ends, > > i think....(LSJ ?) > > Good argument. The 1997 ruling is/was for things done for damage, since S:CE > specifically precludes damage. It would also extend naturally to any other > "strike-like" effect - effect directed at the target of the strike. > > It seems rather natural, however, that the striking minion pays the blood and > untaps when the strike resolves. > > I'll put this on the RT list. > Oh, please, don't make the RT have another separate ruling just only for majesty... I think superior majesty could pretty works well under the current RTR 19970630, ain't it ?.... Just my thought [ quoted text not captured ]

Kevin M.

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3BAC71E0...@white-wolf.com... > Tetragrammaton wrote: > > If the strike does something in addition to ending combat, that something > > takes place just after the combat ends. [RTR 19970630] > > > > So the majesty's "burn 1 blood to untap" should be done *after* combat ends, > > i think....(LSJ ?) > > Good argument. The 1997 ruling is/was for things done for damage, since S:CE > specifically precludes damage. It would also extend naturally to any other > "strike-like" effect - effect directed at the target of the strike. > > It seems rather natural, however, that the striking minion pays the blood and > untaps when the strike resolves. > > I'll put this on the RT list. I'm assuming this ruling would apply to things like inferior Meld With The Land, etc., as well, and not just Majesty. > > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. ERC > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (remove PLEASENOSPAMME for direct reply) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, _The_Art_of_War_ "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier