Venture Investment

Should the Venture Investment master card have the sub decription of investment? Vincent

On 10 Mar 2004 18:21:05 -0800, vincen...@hotmail.com (Vincent Price) wrote: >Should the Venture Investment master card have the sub decription of investment? Should? No. It does not have one. It was not omitted by the printer. It was not designed to have one. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

vincen...@hotmail.com (Vincent Price) wrote in message news:<a60ff9bd.04031...@posting.google.com>... > Should the Venture Investment master card have the sub decription of investment? > > Vincent I take it you are trying to combo this with Alan Sovereign? Ability: When you play an Investment card, add an additional counter to it from the blood bank.

Vincent Price wrote: > Should the Venture Investment master card have the sub decription of > investment? Why does it need one? The only situation I can see where it makes a difference is with Alen Soverign's special, which is "add an extra counter when you play an investment card". Is Ventrue Investment not an Investment card? It says "Investment" on it. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "Punk rock's been pretty good to me for twenty years. It's my year to give back: I'm dedicating the next year of my life to fucking the Bush administration." -Fat Mike, http://www.punkvoter.com

> I take it you are trying to combo this with Alan Sovereign? > > Ability: When you play an Investment card, add an additional counter > to it from the blood bank. I want Venture! for a new deck and if he will add a add one to the Venture investment I might play with him since that is my main reason for wanting to play Venture! I want big Investments. And since the master: Investment catagory was added until after the Venture Investment was printed I was hoping that it would be considered Investment

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:03:17 -0500, Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: >> Should the Venture Investment master card have the sub decription of >> investment? >Why does it need one? It doesn't. >The only situation I can see where it makes a >difference is with Alen Soverign's special, which is "add an extra counter >when you play an investment card". Correct. >Is Ventrue Investment not an Investment >card? It says "Investment" on it. No, it is not an investment card. See the Camarilla Edition and Black Hand versions of Short-Term Investment for the necesssary card text. Master. Investment. Short-Term Investment [Jyhad:C, VTES:C, Sabbat:C, SW:PV, FN:PR/PS, CE:PV2, BH:PTo2] Cardtype: Master Cost: 1 pool Master. Investment. Move 3 blood from the blood bank to this card. You may use a master phase action to move 1 blood from this card to your blood pool. Burn this card when the last blood counter on it is removed. [ quoted text not captured ]

Vincent Price wrote: > And since the master: Investment catagory was added until after the > Venture Investment was printed I was hoping that it would be > considered Investment Why wouldn't it be? There is nothing in the rulebook that defines "Investment" cards. So presumably, any card that says "Investment" on it is an "Investment" card. As such, it would make sense that Alan Soverign's special ability would work when a Ventrue Investment was put into play. This being said, you could just use another Ventrue Antitibu in your crypt instead, as it has the same effect. Unless Alan Soverign Clan Impersonaites into a Ventrue Antitribu, which as we all know, is the start of any winning strategy... [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra wrote: > No, it is not an investment card. > > See the Camarilla Edition and Black Hand versions of Short-Term > Investment for the necesssary card text. Yeah, I'm not seeing that as necessary card text. There is nothing in the rulebook that defines "Investment". All Alan Soverign says is "when you play an investement card, add an additional counter to it from the blood bank". When you play a Ventrue Investment, you are playing a card that is an investment, and as such, I would expect that Alan Soverign's special would trigger. Alan Soverign's special does not say "when you play a Master: Investment, add..." As such, much like I would expect Alan's special to work in conjuction with Ventrue Investment (which is an investment card), I'd expect it to work with a hypotetical action card called "Blood Investment" that used counters. I accept that there might be errata somewhere that prevents this from working by virtue of there being errata on Alan Soverign that I am unaware of, but just by virtue of reading the cards, I can't imagine why, in a million years, it wouldn't work. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija wrote: > The Lasombra wrote: > > >>No, it is not an investment card. >> >>See the Camarilla Edition and Black Hand versions of Short-Term >>Investment for the necesssary card text. > > > Yeah, I'm not seeing that as necessary card text. There is nothing in the It is. > rulebook that defines "Investment". All Alan Soverign says is "when you play > an investement card, add an additional counter to it from the blood bank". There is nothing in the rulebook that defines "gun", either. The only thing that makes a gun a gun is card text. "Zip Gun" isn't a gun because of its title. It's a gun because card text says it is (while in play). If a card allowed you to search your library for a gun, you couldn't pull a Zip Gun, for example, since it isn't a gun when it's in your library. > When you play a Ventrue Investment, you are playing a card that is an > investment, and as such, I would expect that Alan Soverign's special would > trigger. Alan Soverign's special does not say "when you play a Master: > Investment, add..." As such, much like I would expect Alan's special to work > in conjuction with Ventrue Investment (which is an investment card), I'd > expect it to work with a hypotetical action card called "Blood Investment" > that used counters. Ventrue Investment lacks card text that would make it an investment, so it is not an investment. Alan's special doesn't apply to playing Ventrue Investment. > I accept that there might be errata somewhere that prevents this from > working by virtue of there being errata on Alan Soverign that I am unaware > of, but just by virtue of reading the cards, I can't imagine why, in a > million years, it wouldn't work. There is no errata at work here. It would require errata to add "Investment" to Ventrue Investment's card text in order for it to be affected by Alan's special. Just by reading the cards, one can deduce that neither Powerbase: Chicago nor Ventrue Investment are investments (they lack "investment" text) and that they are neither guns as well (they lack "gun" text). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > Ventrue Investment lacks card text that would make it an investment, so it > is not an investment. Alan's special doesn't apply to playing Ventrue > Investment. I stand corrected. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:14:19 -0500, Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: >working by virtue of there being errata on Alan Soverign that I am unaware >of, but just by virtue of reading the cards, I can't imagine why, in a >million years, it wouldn't work. In short, unlike Shadowfist, where if a word is on a card, it is a descriptor of some sort, in V:tES, it can't just be part of the name. :) Xian thought about that Alan Sovereign thing too...

[ quoted text not captured ] I personally don't mind the status quo and Alan Sovereign + Ventrue Investment tends to be a relatively corner-case scenario anyway (with minimum impact). Nonetheless, I am slightly curious why Sutekh's ability is a function of card title (not just card text). You've made a good point about the Zip Gun scenario (card text/trait not title make it a Gun) and I understand how Ventrue Investment parallels that. But how about Bane Mummies? There is no "Bane Mummy" trait printed on the card, and thus it seems that the designation is based purely on card title. Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> wrote: > I personally don't mind the status quo and Alan Sovereign + Ventrue Investment > tends to be a relatively corner-case scenario anyway (with minimum impact). Just as a side note.. if cards were getting errata'd to become Investments, I'd also like to see Acquired Ventrue Assets become an Investment. Maybe some other non-Powerbase pool-gaining masters? Just for consistency... > Nonetheless, I am slightly curious why Sutekh's ability is a function of card > title (not just card text). You've made a good point about the Zip Gun scenario > (card text/trait not title make it a Gun) and I understand how Ventrue > Investment parallels that. But how about Bane Mummies? There is no "Bane Mummy" > trait printed on the card, and thus it seems that the designation is based > purely on card title. Before Camarilla Edition, this also applied to Klaus Van Der Veken, when Hunting Grounds were merely in the card title. It also applies to Rosa Martinez. "Regent" is only a card title. The card text only says that the vampire becomes a Cardinal. There may be other examples...

> There is no errata at work here. > > It would require errata to add "Investment" to Ventrue Investment's card > text in order for it to be affected by Alan's special. > What can I say I was hoping it would work, I wanted to use Alan's special without try and investment deck. Vincent

> > Should the Venture Investment master card have the sub decription of > > investment? > > Why does it need one? The only situation I can see where it makes a > difference is with Alen Soverign's special, which is "add an extra counter > when you play an investment card". Is Ventrue Investment not an Investment > card? It says "Investment" on it. The only reason that any masters seem to have the Investment decription would be for Alan, otherwise there is no reason any master would need that sub catagory of Investment. Vincent

Xian wrote: > In short, unlike Shadowfist, where if a word is on a card, it is a > descriptor of some sort, in V:tES, it can't just be part of the name. Yeah, see, I got confused by the Designator rules, and completely forgot about the clearly obvious paralel in the "gun" cards... I am so smart. S. M. R. T. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> Nonetheless, I am slightly curious why Sutekh's ability is a function of >card >> title (not just card text). You've made a good point about the Zip Gun >scenario >> (card text/trait not title make it a Gun) and I understand how Ventrue >> Investment parallels that. But how about Bane Mummies? There is no "Bane >Mummy" >> trait printed on the card, and thus it seems that the designation is based >> purely on card title. > >Before Camarilla Edition, this also applied to Klaus Van Der Veken, when >Hunting >Grounds were merely in the card title. > >It also applies to Rosa Martinez. "Regent" is only a card title. The card >text >only says that the vampire becomes a Cardinal. > >There may be other examples... The example of Hunting Grounds was a good one, thanks for the reminder. In addition to Klaus, don't forget that the original Hunting Grounds themselves referred to the generic group of Hunting Grounds (since a vamp could only gain 1 blood from HG's each turn). Rosa is an interesting case too, since, as you noted, the Regent card doesn't technically say anything about a "Regent" title or trait. As a sidenote, it may be important to specifically exclude from this discussion cards that fetch cards of a particular title. Dan Murdoch & Giant's Blood, Bindusara & Elder Library, Arcane Library, & Fragment, and Ur-Shulgi & Tajdid for example. In these cases, it is searching for a specific card title (and not a group of cards), so I think that's rather understandable. But once you open the door to allowing to search for groups of cards, the line b/w title and card text becomes fuzzy (as it is with Bane Mummies). Rosa's case is a bit atypical since it doesn't say something like "control a vampire with the Regent card", and instead implies the existence of a Regent trait. Halcyan 2