LSJ. NRA

I read the new tournament rule that excludes NRA restriction. Does it mean that I can bleed, untap, bleed, infinite times?? Thanks, Enrique

On 20 Aug 2002 20:04:25 -0700, take...@yahoo.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dr._Enrique_Monta=F1o?=) wrote: >I read the new tournament rule that excludes NRA restriction. >Does it mean that I can bleed, untap, bleed, infinite times?? No. The Camarilla Edition rules specifically prohibit this. 6.1.1 Bleed, page 21 A minion cannot perform more than one bleed action each turn, even if he untaps. Also, only one political action per turn: 6.1.7 Political Actions, page 25 A minion cannot perform more than one politcal action each turn. Also, you cannot repeat an action card by name: 6.1.6 Action Card (or Card in Play), page 25 A minion cannot perform an action with the same action card or via the same card in play (including from the minion's own card text) more than once each turn, even if he untaps. Notice also that Retainers, Equipment, and Allies are all subsets of action cards (1.6.3.3, page 15), so that you cannot equip with the same piece of equipment multiple times in the same turn, but your crafty Ravnos can equip with a Laptop, untap, equip with a Treasured Samadji, untap, employ Tasha Morgan, untap, employ J.S. Simmons, Esq., untap, and then attempt to bleed. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

The Lasombra wrote: > The Camarilla Edition rules specifically prohibit this. From what I understand about the new NRA rules, you can currently hunt an infinite number of times, given enough Freak Drives, correct? Yaa! I finally have it! The deck that can withdraw from the game on the first turn! Crypt: 12x March Halcyan (she's the 1 point Pander with fortitude, correct?) Library: 90 Freak Drive On your first turn, get out March. On your second turn, hopefully, neither your predator or prey have any vampires out yet. March then hunts 90 times. You declare your intention to withdraw from the Jyhad! You then withdraw at the start of your third turn! You run off with 1 VP! Heeeeyaaaahhhh! Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "I need a doctor, kinda, sorta. What's wrong with me? He said there's a skid mark on my aorta and there's no remedy." -The Donnas

Peter D Bakija wrote: > The Lasombra wrote: > > The Camarilla Edition rules specifically prohibit this. > > From what I understand about the new NRA rules, you can currently hunt an > infinite number of times, given enough Freak Drives, correct? Finite and very large, but not infinite. :-) > Yaa! I finally have it! The deck that can withdraw from the game on the > first turn! > > Crypt: > 12x March Halcyan (she's the 1 point Pander with fortitude, correct?) > > Library: > 90 Freak Drive > > On your first turn, get out March. On your second turn, hopefully, neither > your predator or prey have any vampires out yet. March then hunts 90 times. > You declare your intention to withdraw from the Jyhad! You then withdraw at > the start of your third turn! You run off with 1 VP! Heeeeyaaaahhhh! ... assuming no one bothers to bleed you on their 3rd turn. At any rate, Nosfertu Putrescence could be used (with, say, 6 Bum's Rush in a 60-card deck) to get a similar effect ever since the days of Jyhad, and it doesn't fall victim to a second-turn block. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:51:04 +0200, Peter D Bakija wrote: > Crypt: > 12x March Halcyan (she's the 1 point Pander with fortitude, correct?) > > Library: > 90 Freak Drive Ohh... How many $$$ is that ? > On your first turn, get out March. On your second turn, hopefully, > neither your predator or prey have any vampires out yet. March then > hunts 90 times. You declare your intention to withdraw from the Jyhad! > You then withdraw at the start of your third turn! You run off with 1 > VP! Heeeeyaaaahhhh! See ! Rich players get an automatic VP ! Who said money can't win you games ? Francois, smiling like this ;>

LSJ wrote: > ... assuming no one bothers to bleed you on their 3rd turn. No, see, I get to declare on my second turn, 'cause I went first, see, and, umm, well, never mind. :-) >At any rate, Nosfertu Putrescence could be used (with, say, 6 Bum's Rush >in a 60-card deck) to get a similar effect ever since the days of Jyhad, >and it doesn't fall victim to a second-turn block. Yeah, we considered that one, but if you accidentally go first, you can't get Koko out till your second turn (increasing the chances of someone getting another minion to foil your clever plan), and if you go second and do get Koko out on turn one, you have to hope that someone else gets a vampire out imediately too, and then you gotta hope that it isn't your predator :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

Francois Gombault wrote: > Ohh... How many $$$ is that ? > Pah! It's only, like, what, 30 Ventrue starter decks (assuming 60 Freaks being a tournament legal deck...)! And I already have, like, 7 or 8 Freaks! I'm well on my way to world domination! Ha! Never again shall I go to a tournament and score zero VPs. With this deck, I am virtually assured of *at least* one VP! Bwahahah. Ahem. Sorry. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote in message news:<B9891811.7299%PD...@bigplanet.com>... > LSJ wrote: > > > ... assuming no one bothers to bleed you on their 3rd turn. > > No, see, I get to declare on my second turn, 'cause I went first, see, and, > umm, well, never mind. > > :-) > > >At any rate, Nosfertu Putrescence could be used (with, say, 6 Bum's Rush > >in a 60-card deck) to get a similar effect ever since the days of Jyhad, > >and it doesn't fall victim to a second-turn block. > > Yeah, we considered that one, but if you accidentally go first, you can't > get Koko out till your second turn (increasing the chances of someone > getting another minion to foil your clever plan), and if you go second and > do get Koko out on turn one, you have to hope that someone else gets a > vampire out imediately too, and then you gotta hope that it isn't your > predator :-) wouldn't 60 traps be better? sure, you're likely to go to torpor (assuming your enemy doesn't have 60 presses to end...or just ends combat), plus it doesn't require nos...and if the minion that comes out is your predator's then hopefully it can't bleed you as it'd hopefully be in torpor. also, include 6 cards you actually want to have (sudden reversal, direct intervention, and 5 telepathic counters is good) and play with aus/AUS weenies, and it should be a go-er. salem. only got 1 vp all tourney with a "real" deck anyway.

Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote in message news:<B989189A.729A%PD...@bigplanet.com>... > Francois Gombault wrote: > > > Ohh... How many $$$ is that ? > > > > Pah! It's only, like, what, 30 Ventrue starter decks (assuming 60 Freaks > being a tournament legal deck...)! And I already have, like, 7 or 8 Freaks! > I'm well on my way to world domination! > > Ha! Never again shall I go to a tournament and score zero VPs. With this > deck, I am virtually assured of *at least* one VP! Bwahahah. > > Ahem. Sorry. Unless you self-contest March, of course. ;) Think about it... in the second round, you could self-contest at least 3 times! Of course, if you use Blanche Hill, you could hunt one more time - but she'd be blocked for sure, once people see that you're up to this really powerful gambit! Tobias Deventer http://deventerbynight.freewebspace.com

salem_ch...@yahoo.com (salem) wrote in message news:<293af2cc.0208...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] or infernal pursuit, or aura reading but I think this excercise is without combat foolery Tobias Deventer http://deventerbynight.freewebspace.com

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3D639C03...@white-wolf.com>... > Peter D Bakija wrote: > > Crypt: > > 12x March Halcyan (she's the 1 point Pander with fortitude, correct?) > > > > Library: > > 90 Freak Drive > > (snip) > ... assuming no one bothers to bleed you on their 3rd turn. > > At any rate, Nosfertu Putrescence could be used (with, say, 6 Bum's Rush > in a 60-card deck) to get a similar effect ever since the days of Jyhad, > and it doesn't fall victim to a second-turn block. I was wondering how this might work: 1st-turn: Control a 2-cap nosferatu. (withdraw conditions not met) 2nd-turn: Must enter combat if there are any ready vamps to Bum's Rush. (withdraw conditions not met). No library and reduced hand after combat. 3rd-turn: declare withdraw on untap. Now might be too late to do it... Is this correct or is there something i'm not understanding here? .- Luis Duarte - - - Powerbase:Lisbon-[http://planeta.clix.pt/vampire]

On 22 Aug 2002, Luis Duarte wrote: > > At any rate, Nosfertu Putrescence could be used (with, say, 6 Bum's Rush > > in a 60-card deck) to get a similar effect ever since the days of Jyhad, > > and it doesn't fall victim to a second-turn block. > > I was wondering how this might work: > 1st-turn: Control a 2-cap nosferatu. (withdraw conditions not met) > 2nd-turn: Must enter combat if there are any ready vamps to Bum's > Rush. (withdraw conditions not met). No library and reduced hand after > combat. > 3rd-turn: declare withdraw on untap. Now might be too late to do it... > > Is this correct or is there something i'm not understanding here? I think that's the plan. Although many predators can probably prevent the withdrawl at this point, not many decks are equipped to quickly bleed through 28 pool at 0 stealth. Some predators might permit the withdrawl in hopes of finding easier prey. A combat deck with no available Fame would have a particularly tough time, I think. I had a similar notion using Basil, 45 Disguised Weapons and 45 Meat Hooks (adjust down to fit the rushes in). Perhaps it wouldn't work out as smoothly (might jam on Disguised Weapons), but it would be funny to have Basil rush...say Gideon Fontaine with 45 Meat Hooks. :) "Come get it, ya big cheese!" -Matt

salem wrote: > wouldn't 60 traps be better? sure, you're likely to go to torpor > (assuming your enemy doesn't have 60 presses to end...or just ends > combat), plus it doesn't require nos...and if the minion that comes > out is your predator's then hopefully it can't bleed you as it'd > hopefully be in torpor. > also, include 6 cards you actually want to have (sudden reversal, > direct intervention, and 5 telepathic counters is good) and play with > aus/AUS weenies, and it should be a go-er. No, see, traps and Nosferatu Putrescence and whatever have vital flaws that make the "Attempt to withdraw on your second turn" decks weak! If you need to get into combat to play all of your cards, you also need: A) A way to get into combat (Bum's Rush or something) B) Someone to get into combat with. (A) requires having enough of the Bum's Rush in your deck that you can reasonably expect to draw one on the first turn, but not having enough so that you can jam on them. As a result, you can only put 6 in your deck, and even with 6 in a 60 card deck, it isn't impossible that you don't draw one for a couple turns, at which point you are screwed. (B) is completely beyond your control, and the hope is that your predator won't get out a vampire till turn 3 (see, this isn't a *good* plan...). With 60 Freak Drives and March Halcyan, you always get out a vampire on T1, you always (ok, barring an interception, but who is going to intercept March hunting?) run out your deck on T2. You just have to hope that your predator doesn't have blasters... [ quoted text not captured ]

Tobias wrote: > Unless you self-contest March, of course. ;) > > Think about it... in the second round, you could self-contest at least > 3 times! But see, you can't contest March. If you bring her out a second time, the second one burns. [ quoted text not captured ]

Luis Duarte wrote: > I was wondering how this might work: > 1st-turn: Control a 2-cap nosferatu. (withdraw conditions not met) > 2nd-turn: Must enter combat if there are any ready vamps to Bum's > Rush. (withdraw conditions not met). No library and reduced hand after > combat. > 3rd-turn: declare withdraw on untap. Now might be too late to do it... > > Is this correct or is there something i'm not understanding here? -Turn 1 you get out KoKo ('cause you didn't go first). -Turn 2 you Bum's Rush someone, play 54 Nosferatu Putrescence on Koko (giving him -53 hand damage). Combat ends one way or the other. -Turn 3, you declare your intent to withdraw from the Jyhad. -Turn 4, you fail, as you got bled for 1. Man. I just read that you need to declare your intent to withdraw during your *untap* phase! Man, that adds a whole extra turn. The Man is clearly conspiring to keep this tournament winning deck from dominating play... [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija wrote: > > With 60 Freak Drives and March Halcyan, you always get out a vampire on T1, > you always (ok, barring an interception, but who is going to intercept March > hunting?) run out your deck on T2. You just have to hope that your predator > doesn't have blasters... > Crypt: March Halcyon X 9 Rufina Soledad X 3 Library: Frak Drive X 55 Dawn Operation Bums Rush Skin of Steel Undead Persistence Trap Well, that ought to leave me with five cards on my hand if I get one transfer. Two or more gives me a decent chance to actually remove one vamp behind me :) Sten During

Sten During wrote: > Crypt: > > March Halcyon X 9 > Rufina Soledad X 3 > > Library: > > Frak Drive X 55 > Dawn Operation > Bums Rush > Skin of Steel > Undead Persistence > Trap > > Well, that ought to leave me with five cards on my hand if I get one > transfer. Two or more gives me a decent chance to actually remove > one vamp behind me :) Oooh. Cool! T1: Play March. T2: Hunt 55 times with March. Play Rufina. T3: oh, wait. It kinda falls apart here. Darn. You can now rush someone with Rufina and possibly kill them, but that foils your withdraw attempt on T3, so you can't actually attempt to withdraw till T4, and by then, you are assured of being foiled. *But*, if you go 3rd or 4th (or 5th) on the first turn (getting 3 or 4 transfers), you can get out March *and* Rufina on your first turn, which makes it not impossible to pull off: T1: Play March and Rufina. T2: Hunt 55 times with March. Rush your predators only vampire with Rufina and torporize them with the Trap/UP combo. T3: Attempt to withdraw. Hope your predator doesn't have a second vampire to get you with on their 4th turn. T4: You are freed! 1VP assured! Woo!!!!! So you have, what, a 60% of being able to pull this off? I'm down. [ quoted text not captured ]

> Crypt: > 12x March Halcyan (she's the 1 point Pander with fortitude, correct?) > Library: > 90 Freak Drive You might also be able to speed this up a bit, if you say 30 Freak Drive and 30 Dawn Ops. Nobody's going to block it anyway, so you might as well cycle 2 cards per action, so you can withdraw due to March Halcyon hunting 30 times in broad daylight. Style points :)

[ quoted text not captured ] And then when your first 8 cards are all Dawn Ops, what do you do? -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson

Peter D Bakija wrote: > Sten During wrote: > >> Crypt: >> >> March Halcyon X 9 >> Rufina Soledad X 3 >> >> Library: >> >> Frak Drive X 55 >> Dawn Operation >> Bums Rush >> Skin of Steel >> Undead Persistence >> Trap >> >> Well, that ought to leave me with five cards on my hand if I get one >> transfer. Two or more gives me a decent chance to actually remove >> one vamp behind me :) > > Oooh. Cool! > Yes Cool, but this version will actually work. Crypt: March Halcyon X 6 Franciscus X 3 Brazil X 3 Library: Freak Drive X 54 Force Of Will X 1 Daring the Dawn X 1 Telepathic Counter X 3 Suprise Influence X 1 T1: Get out March, Franciscus, and Brazil. Pay 1 to see one of you didn't get BraDiscard Freak Drive. T2: March Hunts 53 times. Everyone laughs, until you bleed with Force of Will while Daring the Dawn. March Burns. You get the Edge. T3: You gain a pool from the edge. You announce your intention to withdraw from the Jyhad. Everyone is frightened. You hold off bleeds and you fail a vote called by a Prince by throwing the edge and Suprise Influence. You are worshipped to the end of your days. Colin Riggs

>With 60 Freak Drives and March Halcyan, you always get out a vampire on T1, >you always (ok, barring an interception, but who is going to intercept March >hunting?) run out your deck on T2. You just have to hope that your predator >doesn't have blasters... I'd let you hunt and play 50 Freak Drives, but when you play #51, I'd Direct Intervention it just to spite you Bakija! =P Halcyan 2

Colin Riggs wrote: > March Halcyon X 6 > Franciscus X 3 > Brazil X 3 > > Library: > > Freak Drive X 54 > Force Of Will X 1 > Daring the Dawn X 1 > Telepathic Counter X 3 > Suprise Influence X 1 > > T1: Get out March, Franciscus, and Brazil. Pay 1 to see one of you didn't > get BraDiscard Freak Drive. > > T2: March Hunts 53 times. Everyone laughs, until you bleed with Force of > Will while Daring the Dawn. March Burns. You get the Edge. > > T3: You gain a pool from the edge. You announce your intention to withdraw > from the Jyhad. Everyone is frightened. You hold off bleeds and you fail a > vote called by a Prince by throwing the edge and Suprise Influence. You are > worshipped to the end of your days. Fantastic! Unless you don't draw March in your opening hand. Or your predator bleeds you for 3 on their 4th turn. But other than that, it should work... [ quoted text not captured ]

Halcyan 2 wrote: > I'd let you hunt and play 50 Freak Drives, but when you play #51, I'd Direct > Intervention it just to spite you Bakija! =P Now that would suck! What are you gonna do? [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.sc.edu> wrote: > Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: >>> Crypt: >>> 12x March Halcyan (she's the 1 point Pander with fortitude, correct?) >> >>> Library: >>> 90 Freak Drive >> >>You might also be able to speed this up a bit, if you say 30 Freak Drive >>and 30 Dawn Ops. Nobody's going to block it anyway, so you might as well >>cycle 2 cards per action, so you can withdraw due to March Halcyon hunting >>30 times in broad daylight. Style points :) > And then when your first 8 cards are all Dawn Ops, what do you do? Yeah yeah it's not flawless, but it would still be a funny way to take your VP. :)

Peter D Bakija wrote: > > T1: Play March and Rufina. > T2: Hunt 55 times with March. Rush your predators only vampire with Rufina > and torporize them with the Trap/UP combo. > T3: Attempt to withdraw. Hope your predator doesn't have a second vampire to > get you with on their 4th turn. > T4: You are freed! 1VP assured! Woo!!!!! > > So you have, what, a 60% of being able to pull this off? > Actually my chance is less (with 9 copies of March), but if I go second I only influence up Rufina (provided of course I have her in my uncontrolled), hunt 55 times a rush backwards. The one blood left makes playing Skin of Steel legal. Just realised that there should be 2 copies of Bums Rush as I know that if I'm rushing with Rufina, then there's a 100% chance that I'll see March during that influence-phase - effectively making it into a combo. Skin of Steel is paired with Dawn Op and Trap is Paired with Undead Persistence. Should be enough to theoretically handle two vamps behind me :) Sten During

>Actually my chance is less (with 9 copies of March), but if I go >second I only influence up Rufina (provided of course I have her >in my uncontrolled), hunt 55 times a rush backwards. The one blood >left makes playing Skin of Steel legal. > >Just realised that there should be 2 copies of Bums Rush as I know >that if I'm rushing with Rufina, then there's a 100% chance that >I'll see March during that influence-phase - effectively making >it into a combo. Skin of Steel is paired with Dawn Op and Trap is >Paired with Undead Persistence. Should be enough to theoretically >handle two vamps behind me :) Ah, but what do you do about your prey bleeding you with Night Moves? Or cross-table bleeds with Kindred Spirits? =P Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: > > Ah, but what do you do about your prey bleeding you with Night Moves? Or > cross-table bleeds with Kindred Spirits? =P > > Halcyan 2 > Argh!!!!! My world falls apart, er, maybe not *grin* :=) Sten During

"L. Scott Johnson" <sjoh...@math.sc.edu> wrote in message news:ak2ule$1f5kht$1...@ID-99714.news.dfncis.de... > Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: > >> Crypt: > >> 12x March Halcyan (she's the 1 point Pander with fortitude, correct?) > > > >> Library: > >> 90 Freak Drive > > > >You might also be able to speed this up a bit, if you say 30 Freak Drive > >and 30 Dawn Ops. Nobody's going to block it anyway, so you might as well > >cycle 2 cards per action, so you can withdraw due to March Halcyon hunting > >30 times in broad daylight. Style points :) > > And then when your first 8 cards are all Dawn Ops, what do you do? Take out 5 freak drives and 5 Dawn ops and put in 10 Scrounging. :) [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote in message news:<B98A5B4B.7350%PD...@bigplanet.com>... > Tobias wrote: > > > Unless you self-contest March, of course. ;) > > > > Think about it... in the second round, you could self-contest at least > > 3 times! > > But see, you can't contest March. If you bring her out a second time, the > second one burns. Hmmm, now that would be annoying. Thank goodness it doesn't happen with a more expensive vampire, then! Tobias Deventer

Peter D Bakija wrote: > The Lasombra wrote: > > >>The Camarilla Edition rules specifically prohibit this. > > > From what I understand about the new NRA rules, you can currently hunt an > infinite number of times, given enough Freak Drives, correct? > > Yaa! I finally have it! The deck that can withdraw from the game on the > first turn! > > Crypt: > 12x March Halcyan (she's the 1 point Pander with fortitude, correct?) > > Library: > 90 Freak Drive > > On your first turn, get out March. On your second turn, hopefully, neither > your predator or prey have any vampires out yet. March then hunts 90 times. > You declare your intention to withdraw from the Jyhad! You then withdraw at > the start of your third turn! You run off with 1 VP! Heeeeyaaaahhhh! > > > Peter D Bakija > PD...@bigplanet.com > http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 > > "I need a doctor, kinda, sorta. What's wrong with me? > He said there's a skid mark on my aorta and there's no remedy." > -The Donnas > You could do this faster and cheaper with a 60 card deck. Raille

Peter D Bakija wrote: > > With 60 Freak Drives and March Halcyan, you always get out a vampire on T1, > you always (ok, barring an interception, but who is going to intercept March > hunting?) run out your deck on T2. You just have to hope that your predator > doesn't have blasters... > Jake Washington could waylay this infernal play with a well timed computer hacking. Nothing like a turn 1 bleed Raille