rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Mask of a Thousand Faces + Pentex Loves You! / Club Illusion

6 messages from 5 participants · 09 October 2009 – 10 October 2009
original thread on Google Groups

John Best

Hi all, I had a cursory look for this, but no dice (I'm not sure if its not been asked before or if the terms I used were too specific). -------------------------------------------------------- Relevant card texts: Club Illusion Master: unique location. 1 pool. When any anarch vampire declares a bleed action, he or she can burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed on that action (only usable once each action). Pentex(TM) Loves You! Master: unique location. 2 pool You may tap this card and choose a Sabbat vampire. Once during the current action, the chosen vampire may burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed. Mask of a Thousand Faces Action Modifier obf: Only usable by a ready, untapped vampire other than the acting minion who is capable of performing the action. Not usable if any action modifiers or other effects have been used that could not have been used if this vampire were the acting vampire. Untap the acting minion and tap this vampire instead. The action continues with this vampire as the acting minion. OBF: As above, with +1 stealth. ------------------------------------------------------ Scenario #1. Club Illusion is in play. Minion A declares a bleed for 1. They burn a blood as per Club Illusion to increase the bleed to 2. A block is declared. Minion B plays Mask of 1k Faces at superior to take over as the acting minon at +1 steath. The block fails. The action resolves as: 1. A bleed for 1, the window to burn a blood for Club illusion has passed, the original acting minion doesn't regain the blood they paid. 2. A bleed for 1, the window to burn a blood for Club illusion has passed, the original acting minion regains the blood they paid. 3. A bleed for 2, Minion A regains a blood, Minion B burns one since they have become the acting minion, and in effect would have burned one at the point of declaration 4. A bleed for 2, Minion A has burned a blood to increase it, Minion B takes over after the window for declaration has closed, but before resolution. Of all the outcomes, I suspect its actually 1. Despite increasing the bleed for minion A, its B that's really bleeding, and since its the same action, and past the point of declaration, Club Illusion is no longer relevant. Minion A has already burned the blood, they can't get it back now. Similarly, Pentex Loves You! Scenario #2 PLY! is in play. Minion A declares a bleed for 1. PLY! is tapped during the action and Minion A chosen to be allowed to burn a blood to increase the bleed. Blood is burned to increase bleed to 2 . Block declared. Mask of 1k Faces is played by Minion B at superior. Block fails. Now we'll leave aside the fact that PLY! could have been tapped just before action resolution, and the blood burned then by minion 2. Given the sequence above the action resolves as: 1. A bleed for 1. Minion A was chosen for PLY! and it's irrelevant that they're no longer bleeding. They don't get the blood they burned back. 2. A bleed for 1. Minion A was chosen for PLY! and it's irrelevant that they're no longer bleeding. They get the blood they burned back since they are not bleeding. 3. A bleed for 1, BUT if Minion A bleeds, they will be bleeding for 1 additionally native due to PLY! 4. A bleed for 2, since the "Minion A" that was chosen for PLY! was really Minion B in a silly hat, ergo it was that minion that was chosen. Minion A gains a blood, Minion B burns one. In this case, I think 1 is the most likely. Initially I thought 3, but PLY specifies "the current action". Hope its not too confused. Advice appreciated.

John Flournoy

> > 4. A bleed for 2, since the "Minion A" that was chosen for PLY! was > > really Minion B in a silly hat, ergo it was that minion that was > > chosen. Minion A gains a blood, Minion B burns one. > > > In this case, I think 1 is the most likely. Initially I thought 3, but > > PLY specifies "the current action". > > 4. Wait, so the original acting minion retroactively gets a blood back, and the newly-acting minion has to spend one? Does this mean that if Minion A had played Elder Intervention for stealth (paying a blood), and Minion B masks it, suddenly B has to pay a blood that A gets back? I was under the impression that cards and effects already played (and payed for) by Minion A stayed paid for by Minion A, even if minion B later Masks to be the acting minion. -John Flournoy

D.J.

On Oct 9, 4:56 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > John Best wrote: > > Scenario #1. (Club Illusion - snip) > > 4. A bleed for 2, Minion A has burned a blood to increase it, Minion B > > takes over after the window for declaration has closed, but before > > resolution. > > 4. This one I get. But... (Scenario 2, Pentex Loves You!) > > 4. A bleed for 2, since the "Minion A" that was chosen for PLY! was > > really Minion B in a silly hat, ergo it was that minion that was > > chosen. Minion A gains a blood, Minion B burns one. > > 4. Huh? Minion A was specifically chosen. You don't have to choose an actively-bleeding minion. I don't get how this transfers to Minion B. Can you explain further? (I'd expected the response to the PLY situation to be "You can't play Mask; Minion A used an effect, granted by PLY!, that was unavailable to Minion B." Clearly not, but...) - D.J.

LSJ

John Flournoy wrote: >>> 4. A bleed for 2, since the "Minion A" that was chosen for PLY! was >>> really Minion B in a silly hat, ergo it was that minion that was >>> chosen. Minion A gains a blood, Minion B burns one. >>> In this case, I think 1 is the most likely. Initially I thought 3, but >>> PLY specifies "the current action". >> 4. > > Wait, so the original acting minion retroactively gets a blood back, > and the newly-acting minion has to spend one? Sorry, no. Didn't read the change there. 5. A bleed for two.No further blood movement.

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] No blood movement, but otherwise it has text like Club Illusion, and works similarly.

wumpus

[ quoted text not captured ] There appears to be a difference in the text: Club Illusion gives +1 bleed to the action, while Pentex gives +1 bleed to the minion. I would've ruled that Minion B couldn't take over the Pentex bleed, but I don't understand how Mask interacts with vampires with inherent bleed, strength, or other specials, and so don't play with it any more... Alex