I know this is going to sound really (really, really) silly, but is the
action(s) to remove Pulled Fangs directed or undirected? The reason I ask is
that last night a game occured in which a vampire had pulled fangs played on
him, and his grand-prey wished to perform the actions to remove the card. He
reasoned that since it was a minion card, and therefore controlled by the
minion it was played on, that the action to replace was a (D) action.
However, since the card did not say it was directed, it was simply two +1
stealth undirected actions.
We checked around the normal sources (newsgroups, rulebook, errata, etc.)
and couldn't come to a definate conclusion. We found some e-mails from LSJ
suggesting it was undirected, but couldn't find a specific ruling. I know
the old (V:tES base) set said it was misprinted as a (D) action -- so does
that mean its not directed at all? (which is what I think it is).
Thanks,
Alexander Michels
Alexander Michels <mich...@onid.orst.edu> wrote:
> I know this is going to sound really (really, really) silly, but is the
> action(s) to remove Pulled Fangs directed or undirected? The reason I ask is
> that last night a game occured in which a vampire had pulled fangs played on
> him, and his grand-prey wished to perform the actions to remove the card. He
> reasoned that since it was a minion card, and therefore controlled by the
> minion it was played on, that the action to replace was a (D) action.
> However, since the card did not say it was directed, it was simply two +1
> stealth undirected actions.
The card is controlled by the minion it is on.
If the minion's controller takes a "Dentist" action, then it is undirected.
Otherwise, the action is directed at that minion.
(Think about it, you're putting your hands in his mouth! How much more
"directed" can you get?! :) )
Alexander,
I agree it sucks,
David
"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:1p7Zb.359598$na.537273@attbi_s04...
[ quoted text not captured ]
"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:1p7Zb.359598$na.537273@attbi_s04...
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I understand the reasoning. What confuses me is a post from LSJ from
December 12, 2000 (in a posting about card text migrations) that says
(quote):
* Pulled Fangs - the actions to burn are undirected actions.
Was this later changed?
Alexander
Alexander Michels wrote:
> I understand the reasoning. What confuses me is a post from LSJ from
> December 12, 2000 (in a posting about card text migrations) that says
> (quote):
>
> * Pulled Fangs - the actions to burn are undirected actions.
>
> Was this later changed?
No. That's still true. The migration turned the actions from (D) to
no-(D).
An action, to remove the pulled fangs or otherwise, is always directed
or undirected based on the controller of the action minion and his or
her relationship to the controller of the target (same = undirected,
different = directed), without regard to the presence or absence of
a (D) symbol in card text.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schreef in bericht
news:40369ABB...@white-wolf.com...
> Alexander Michels wrote:
> > I understand the reasoning. What confuses me is a post from LSJ from
> > December 12, 2000 (in a posting about card text migrations) that
says
> > (quote):
> >
> > * Pulled Fangs - the actions to burn are undirected actions.
> >
> > Was this later changed?
>
> No. That's still true. The migration turned the actions from (D) to
> no-(D).
>
> An action, to remove the pulled fangs or otherwise, is always directed
> or undirected based on the controller of the action minion and his or
> her relationship to the controller of the target (same = undirected,
> different = directed), without regard to the presence or absence of
> a (D) symbol in card text.
To add to this, since Pulled Fangs says it's at +1 stealth, if I'm
actually removing it from my own minion (making it undirectd), it's at
+2 stealth? The same for Seeds of Corruption?
And, since it's card text, can I just take 2 actions with 2 different
minions to remove the Pulled Fangs card or do I need to take two turns
for this because of NRA.
Izaak wrote:
> To add to this, since Pulled Fangs says it's at +1 stealth, if I'm
> actually removing it from my own minion (making it undirectd), it's at
> +2 stealth? The same for Seeds of Corruption?
No. +1 stealth is +1 stealth. Directedness (and undirectedness) have no
bearing on the action's stealth. There are special rules for having an
additional +1 stealth when encountering your own vampires in torpor
vs. encountering someone else's vampires in torpor via the cardless
"rescue" and "diablerize" actions, but there is no general rule for
adding stealth.
> And, since it's card text, can I just take 2 actions with 2 different
> minions to remove the Pulled Fangs card or do I need to take two turns
> for this because of NRA.
2 different minions on the same turn is OK.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schreef in bericht
news:4039403F...@white-wolf.com...
> Izaak wrote:
> > To add to this, since Pulled Fangs says it's at +1 stealth, if I'm
> > actually removing it from my own minion (making it undirectd), it's
at
> > +2 stealth? The same for Seeds of Corruption?
>
> No. +1 stealth is +1 stealth. Directedness (and undirectedness) have
no
> bearing on the action's stealth. There are special rules for having an
> additional +1 stealth when encountering your own vampires in torpor
> vs. encountering someone else's vampires in torpor via the cardless
> "rescue" and "diablerize" actions, but there is no general rule for
> adding stealth.
Hmm. I always thought that D actions targetting at something you control
yourself, become undirected and as such at +1 stealth.
So the D on Pentex Subversion is also just "D" and has no +1 stealth
when you try to remove it from your own minion?
Or is it at +1 stealth if I try to remove the Pentex Subversion I played
myself, since I still control it (?)
It was my understanding that targetting cards is like targetting the
minion the card is on. This is kinda confusing me, especially since I'm
trying to play a deck relying on Pentex Subversion, Seeds of Corruption
and a lot of Auspex...
Thanks in advance
In article <c1d4dm$j8e$1...@reader08.wxs.nl>, Izaak <i.hav...@SPAMklg.nl> wrote:
>Hmm. I always thought that D actions targetting at something you control
>yourself, become undirected and as such at +1 stealth.
No. All actions, directed or not, are at zero stealth in the absence of
cardtext or rules directions stating otherwise.
The action to remove pulled fangs does not have special rulebook treatment
(compare 'rescue a vampire you control from torpor,' which does have special
text in the rulebook defining its stealth level), so we turn to the
governing cardtext, which specifies it is a +1 stealth action. Since you
control the card, the action is undirected.
gomi
--
Tenser, said the Tensor;
Tenser, said the Tensor;
Tension, apprehension, and dissension have begun.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:53:16 +0100, "Izaak" <i.hav...@SPAMklg.nl>
scrawled:
>So the D on Pentex Subversion is also just "D" and has no +1 stealth
>when you try to remove it from your own minion?
whoever _played_ the Pentex Subversion is the controller, and thus the
target of the D action.
So if I play Pentex on your vampire, if one of your other vampires
wants to remove it, they have to take a D action against ME, at 0
stealth. If, however, _I_ wanted to remove the Pentex I played on your
vampire, one of my vampires could take a 0 stealth UNdirected action
(because i am the controller) to get rid of it. As LSJ said, just
because a normally D action becomes undirected doesn't mean it gains
+1 stealth out of thin air.
Defaults:
Master cards are controlled by the methuselah that played them (and
thus any actions against those cards are directed at the playing
methuselah. card texts can override control, as normal (see: Millicent
Smith and The Coven for examples of such overriding text))
Minion cards (ie: any library card that is not a Master card) are
controlled by the methuselah who's minion they are on. card text can
override this control, as normal (see: Cardinal Sin Failure of Mission
and Deep Cover Agent for examples of such overriding text).
hope that helps to clarify things a bit.
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm