On the Nature of Broken Combos // New Orleans Tournament Results

Or the Interaction of Mind Rape and Banishment "Rules Team Rulings 9/28/98. The errata and rulings below go into effect for DCI Sanctioned Tournaments on 11/1/98 (the standard delay for rulings and errata issued after the 15th of the month). The clarifications apply immediately, of course. Mind Rape and Return to Innocence When played on a vampire who is then the victim of a Banishment, these cards (like all minion cards) become uncontrolled (and cease to function) until the vampire returns to the controlled area. When the vampire returns to the controlled area, these cards' effects resume, ready to be "activated" at the next appropriate time." On my turn, I Mind Rape Jost Werner controlled by my predator. This causes him to be tapped and to not untap during my predator's untap phase. On my turn, I use Jost to call Banishment on Jost. The referendum passes. During my influence phase, I transfer 3 blood off of Jost. If I never bring Jost back into the controlled area, will my predator ever see Jost again? Presumably not. Unfortunately, I had not planned on being the dominate voting force with that deck and hadn't added sufficient Banishment cards (only 2) to match the 10 Mind Rape cards. Otherwise, the recent New Orleans tournament would have seen an even better The Lasombra Rape Them All deck than it saw this past Sunday. The winning deck at the final table did nothing until its grand prey (me) was out of the game. Something to be said for sitting on your hands I guess. Fortunately for me the final game, my prey was playing with large Tremere with superior dominate so that at one point, a Mind Rape'd Muaziz with superior dominate was able to Mind Rape Jost Werner controlled by my predator. Results: Norm 1st place, Dominate/Presence bleeds with Major pool gain Chris 2nd place, Presence Stealth bleed with Rebekka and Jost Steve? 3rd place, Thought's Betrayed/Theft/Walk big Tremere Jeff 4th place, The Lasombra Rape Them All Will 5th place, Unknown Deck Type Lauren 6th place, Brujah Rush (with only 2 Immortal Grapples) Overall, a good time was had by all and a second tournament is planned for late February / early March. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

TheLa...@hotmail.com wrote: > Or the Interaction of Mind Rape and Banishment > > "Rules Team Rulings 9/28/98. > > The errata and rulings below go into effect for DCI Sanctioned > Tournaments on 11/1/98 (the standard delay for rulings and errata > issued after the 15th of the month). > > The clarifications apply immediately, of course. > > Mind Rape and Return to Innocence > When played on a vampire who is then the victim of a Banishment, > these cards (like all minion cards) become uncontrolled (and cease > to function) until the vampire returns to the controlled area. > When the vampire returns to the controlled area, these cards' > effects resume, ready to be "activated" at the next appropriate > time." > > On my turn, I Mind Rape Jost Werner controlled by my predator. > This causes him to be tapped and to not untap during my predator's > untap phase. On my turn, I use Jost to call Banishment on Jost. > The referendum passes. During my influence phase, I transfer 3 blood > off of Jost. If I never bring Jost back into the controlled area, > will my predator ever see Jost again? A good question, but the ruling you cite has no bearing on this case study, since you've burned Mind Rape before you played Banishment. The Banishment breaks the Mind Rape effect altogether (since the lingering effect from the burned Mind Rape is not one of the things a Banished vampire "remembers"): * A Banished vampire remembers only two things: how much blood he has and what cards are played on him. Other effects are ended. (e.g., acquired/lost titles, Deevolution, etc.) [RTR 960112] The breaking of that effect either sends the banished vampire to his "real" controller's uncontrolled region or allows you to bring him out during your Infuence phase under your (permanent) control. And I'm not sure which of these is more "correct" by card text, though I do know which one I'd prefer to be "right". I'll put it on the list for RT review. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html [ quoted text not captured ]

vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote: >The Banishment breaks the Mind Rape effect altogether (since the lingering >effect from the burned Mind Rape is not one of the things a Banished >vampire "remembers"): > * A Banished vampire remembers only two things: how much blood he has and > what cards are played on him. Other effects are ended. (e.g., > acquired/lost titles, Deevolution, etc.) [RTR 960112] Interesting... Are Master: Skill cards (or other capacity altering cards) considered "effects" for the purpose of this rule? Capacity increasing titles? Camarilla Vitae Slave? Revelation of the Sire? Wrath of the Inner Circle? A vampire struck by a Depraved Violet Tremain? Regards, R. David Zopf guenh...@mindspring.com Atom Weaver and V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC

In article <75bjhg$f9f$1...@camel0.mindspring.com>, Richard D. Zopf <guenh...@mindspring.com> wrote: >vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote: >>The Banishment breaks the Mind Rape effect altogether (since the lingering >>effect from the burned Mind Rape is not one of the things a Banished >>vampire "remembers"): >> * A Banished vampire remembers only two things: how much blood he has and >> what cards are played on him. Other effects are ended. (e.g., >> acquired/lost titles, Deevolution, etc.) [RTR 960112] >Interesting... Are Master: Skill cards (or other capacity altering >cards) considered "effects" for the purpose of this rule? #include not-LSJ.h Skill cards are played on the vampire and stay with it, hence are specifically included per RTR above. >Capacity increasing titles? No, per RTR text above. >Camarilla Vitae Slave? Played on the minion, stays with it. >Revelation of the Sire? Played on the minion, stays with it. >Wrath of the Inner Circle? Played on the minion, stays with it. >A vampire struck by a Depraved Violet Tremain? Recovers lost capacity. gomi all subject to LSJ review, natch -- you say they taught you how to read and write yeah, they taught you how to count i say they taught you how to buy and sell your own body by the pound

Richard D. Zopf wrote: > > vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote: > > >The Banishment breaks the Mind Rape effect altogether (since the lingering > >effect from the burned Mind Rape is not one of the things a Banished > >vampire "remembers"): > > > * A Banished vampire remembers only two things: how much blood he has and > > what cards are played on him. Other effects are ended. (e.g., > > acquired/lost titles, Deevolution, etc.) [RTR 960112] > > Interesting... Are Master: Skill cards (or other capacity altering > cards) considered "effects" for the purpose of this rule? Master: Skill cards are effects, but (moreover) they are also cards on the banished vampire. By the text you quoted, they are remembered. Here's some more of the entry from the errata/rulings list that may help: Banishment [DS] - Political Action * Disciplines on the vampire will count towards his capacity, since they are master cards. [TOM 951209] * All minion cards on the vampire become uncontrolled as well, and are immune to contesting or affects like Arson or Cryptic Mission. These cards come back into play when the vampire does. [RTR 960112] * All master cards on the vampire are still controlled and could be contested. Passive effects remain in effect (Disciplines, e.g.) while active effects cannot be used (Blood Doll, e.g.) [RTR 960112] * A Banished vampire remembers only two things: how much blood he has and what cards are played on him. Other effects are ended. (e.g., acquired/lost titles, Deevolution, etc.) [RTR 960112] * Note that "for the rest of the game" effects pointing at the Banished vampire (from some other source) will resume if/when the vampire comes back into play (e.g., Blood Bond). [TOM 960210] Since the Master: Skill card is still controlled (it is a master card), it continues to affect the Banished vampire's capacity. (point 1, above). > Capacity increasing titles? These are also handled by the text you quoted: acquired titles are lost. > Camarilla Vitae Slave? Is still on the vampire (since it is a card), but is uncontrolled (since it is a minion card) so doesn't affect the vampire's capacity. > Revelation of the Sire? Is still on the vampire (since it is a card), but is uncontrolled (since it is a minion card) so doesn't affect the vampire's capacity. > Wrath of the Inner Circle? Is still on the vampire (since it is a card), but is uncontrolled (since it is a minion card) so doesn't affect the vampire's capacity. > A vampire struck by a Depraved Violet Tremain? It (the -1 capacity thing) is not a card on the banished vampire, nor is it an effect that is "pointed at" the vampire from another source, so it is forgotten. [ quoted text not captured ]