Three Rules Questions

Just a handful of questions that I've had on my mind for months but only now do I have a chance to actually post them! #1. For effects that work "in combat", "during combat," or "once each combat", does the minion have to actually be a participating member of that combat? Anathema Choose a ready vampire. If the referendum is successful, put this card on that vampire. If the vampire with this card is reduced to zero blood in combat, he or she is burned, and the Methuselah controlling the opposing minion gains pool equal to the burned vampire's capacity. Lambach Once each combat, Lambach may burn 1 blood to make the damage from his hand strikes aggravated for the current round. Jalan-Aajav Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat aggravated damage as normal. A. A non-participating vampire with Anathema is reduced to 0 blood during combat (by playing Martyr's Resilience or Shared Strength). Does Anathema trigger? Since these combat cards have text stating "Only usable by a ready vampire not involved in combat", I'd argue that "not involved in combat" means this does not occur "in combat." Is that correct? B. I control Lambach or Jalan-Aajav. During a combat between two other minions, can I use Lambach or Jalan's special? (Might be done if I want to reduce their blood or if I borrowed them via Temptation). Common sense leads me to say no, but I can't find a ruling that actually prevents them from doing so. #2. Shared Nightmare [chi] Choose one or two allies or younger vampires controlled by your predator and/or prey. The chosen minions cannot block or cast votes for the rest of the current minion phase. [CHI] As above, but choose three allies or younger vampires. Due to the "and/or", you can choose a minion controlled by your predator and a minion controlled by your prey. However, the presence of just an "or" and the absence of "and/or" implies that you cannot choose a combination of allies and younger vampires. Is that correct? Thus you can choose 3 allies. You can also choose 3 younger vampires. But you cannot choose 1 ally and 2 youngers, or 2 allies and 1 younger? #3. Normally cards have either a blood cost or a pool cost, not both. For example, with Watenda's text, you are "burning an amount of blood equal to the blood or pool cost of the card". If the opposing minion plays a Burning Wrath or Mythic Form, you obviously have to pay the 3 blood cost and not the 0 pool cost. However, what happens if there is both a pool cost *and* a blood cost? A. Watenda is in combat with Rex. Rex's controller has a Chiram's Hold with a Caseless Rounds on it. Rex wants to play a Caseless Rounds on his shiny Assault Rifle. It thus costs 1 pool and 2 blood. Watenda wants to use his special to cancel the card. How much blood does Watenda need to burn? B. Marie Faucigny wants to equip with a Polaris Coach from her controller's ashheap via Filchware's Pawn Shop. The cost is 1 blood *and* 1 pool. Can Marie's controller choose whether her special applies to the blood or pool cost? My guess is yes. Thanks! - Eric Chiang

<echia...@yahoo.com> wrote > Just a handful of questions that I've had on my mind for months but > only now do I have a chance to actually post them! > > > #1. For effects that work "in combat", "during combat," or "once each > combat", does the minion have to actually be a participating member of > that combat? > > Anathema > Choose a ready vampire. If the referendum is successful, put this card > on that vampire. If the vampire with this card is reduced to zero blood > in combat, he or she is burned, and the Methuselah controlling the > opposing minion gains pool equal to the burned vampire's capacity. > > Lambach > Once each combat, Lambach may burn 1 blood to make the damage from his > hand strikes aggravated for the current round. > > Jalan-Aajav > Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat aggravated damage as > normal. > > A. A non-participating vampire with Anathema is reduced to 0 blood > during combat (by playing Martyr's Resilience or Shared Strength). Does > Anathema trigger? Since these combat cards have text stating "Only > usable by a ready vampire not involved in combat", I'd argue that "not > involved in combat" means this does not occur "in combat." Is that > correct? The Anathema states that the vampire be reduce to zero in combat which means that not only must the vampire actually be involved, personally, in the combat but they must receive damage. google of "LSJ anathema combat damage" gives http://www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR6-23.htm read near the end of the page under Anathema. Yah gotta smite their sorry ass to get the score. > B. I control Lambach or Jalan-Aajav. During a combat between two > other minions, can I use Lambach or Jalan's special? (Might be done if > I want to reduce their blood or if I borrowed them via Temptation). > Common sense leads me to say no, but I can't find a ruling that > actually prevents them from doing so. The text you listed says "each round" or "per round" so it means they must be in the combat to be experiencing "rounds". Even if Labbach or Jalan-aajav could (which they can't) do their special it only affects their own person so would be irrelevant if they did it during a combat in which they weren't involved. > #2. Shared Nightmare > [chi] Choose one or two allies or younger vampires controlled by your > predator and/or prey. The chosen minions cannot block or cast votes for > the rest of the current minion phase. > [CHI] As above, but choose three allies or younger vampires. > > > Due to the "and/or", you can choose a minion controlled by your > predator and a minion controlled by your prey. However, the presence of > just an "or" and the absence of "and/or" implies that you cannot choose > a combination of allies and younger vampires. Is that correct? Thus you > can choose 3 allies. You can also choose 3 younger vampires. But you > cannot choose 1 ally and 2 youngers, or 2 allies and 1 younger? I would say, my opinion unguided, that it is a mix of allies and younger vamps (not just allies exclusive-or vamps.) The idea being it's a control type effect and controls "lesser beings." The term minion could include older vamps. The term lesser minion never occurs in VTES. The "predator and/or prey" gives a choice of who you can choose from. If it was "and" then you'd have to get at least one from each Meth. If it was just "or" then you would have to choose which Meth you were attacking because it would be prey or predator directed. and/or means you can take any combination from the two. I'll leave #3 to folks with more experience. :) Just remember I-RR!-ANLSJ

[quote="carl"]The Anathema states that the vampire be reduce to zero in combat which means that not only must the vampire actually be involved, personally, in the combat but they must receive damage. google of "LSJ anathema combat damage" gives http://www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR6-23.htm read near the end of the page under Anathema. Yah gotta smite their sorry ass to get the score. [/quote] incorrect, see (from the WW-VTES rulings page): # Anathema: Burns the target vampire when the target is reduced to zero blood in combat, regardless of the source of the loss of blood (card text). Still won't burn a vampire just for entering a combat with zero blood, however - there must be an actual "reduction" in blood. [RTR 19980623] # Multiple Anathemas don't multy the pool gain. Once one Anathema resolves (burning the vampire), the others are burned (before they get to resolve). [LSJ 20021117]

echia...@yahoo.com wrote: > #3. Normally cards have either a blood cost or a pool cost, not both. > For example, with Watenda's text, you are "burning an amount of blood > equal to the blood or pool cost of the card". If the opposing minion > plays a Burning Wrath or Mythic Form, you obviously have to pay the 3 > blood cost and not the 0 pool cost. > > However, what happens if there is both a pool cost *and* a blood cost? > > A. Watenda is in combat with Rex. Rex's controller has a Chiram's > Hold with a Caseless Rounds on it. Rex wants to play a Caseless Rounds > on his shiny Assault Rifle. It thus costs 1 pool and 2 blood. Watenda > wants to use his special to cancel the card. How much blood does > Watenda need to burn? I would say you can choose if you burn blood for the blood cost or pool cost of the card because the card says "or". If you had to pay the sum it should read and. Therefore Watenda pays only 1, I guess. > B. Marie Faucigny wants to equip with a Polaris Coach from her > controller's ashheap via Filchware's Pawn Shop. The cost is 1 blood > *and* 1 pool. Can Marie's controller choose whether her special applies > to the blood or pool cost? My guess is yes. I would also say yes. When a card states "can do x or y" it usually implies that the Meth can choose between x and y. -- johannes walch

carl wrote: > <echia...@yahoo.com> wrote >>Just a handful of questions that I've had on my mind for months but >>only now do I have a chance to actually post them! >> >>#1. For effects that work "in combat", "during combat," or "once each >>combat", does the minion have to actually be a participating member of >>that combat? Yes, by default. (Contrast Mariel.) >>Anathema >>Choose a ready vampire. If the referendum is successful, put this card >>on that vampire. If the vampire with this card is reduced to zero blood >>in combat, he or she is burned, and the Methuselah controlling the >>opposing minion gains pool equal to the burned vampire's capacity. >> >>Lambach >>Once each combat, Lambach may burn 1 blood to make the damage from his >>hand strikes aggravated for the current round. >> >>Jalan-Aajav >>Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat aggravated damage as >>normal. >> >> A. A non-participating vampire with Anathema is reduced to 0 blood >>during combat (by playing Martyr's Resilience or Shared Strength). Does But not "in combat", as required by Anathema. Anathema doesn't say "during combat", but if it did, it would mean "in combat" by context. >>Anathema trigger? Since these combat cards have text stating "Only >>usable by a ready vampire not involved in combat", I'd argue that "not >>involved in combat" means this does not occur "in combat." Is that >>correct? The vampire is not in combat, so that is enough, correct. > The Anathema states that the vampire be reduce to zero in combat which means > that not only must the vampire actually be involved, personally, in the > combat but they must receive damage. > google of "LSJ anathema combat damage" > gives http://www.thelasombra.com/rules/RTR6-23.htm > read near the end of the page under Anathema. > Yah gotta smite their sorry ass to get the score. Where "receive damage" means "lose their last blood somehow (damage, theft, card cost, etc.)", yeah. >> B. I control Lambach or Jalan-Aajav. During a combat between two >>other minions, can I use Lambach or Jalan's special? (Might be done if >>I want to reduce their blood or if I borrowed them via Temptation). >>Common sense leads me to say no, but I can't find a ruling that >>actually prevents them from doing so. > > The text you listed says "each round" or "per round" so it means they must > be in the combat to be experiencing "rounds". > Even if Labbach or Jalan-aajav could (which they can't) do their special it > only affects their own person so would be irrelevant if they did it during a > combat in which they weren't involved. Well, it's really just an inherent meaning (implication/default) that they have to be in the combat, but sure. >>#2. Shared Nightmare >>[chi] Choose one or two allies or younger vampires controlled by your >>predator and/or prey. The chosen minions cannot block or cast votes for >>the rest of the current minion phase. >>[CHI] As above, but choose three allies or younger vampires. >> >>Due to the "and/or", you can choose a minion controlled by your >>predator and a minion controlled by your prey. However, the presence of >>just an "or" and the absence of "and/or" implies that you cannot choose >>a combination of allies and younger vampires. Is that correct? Thus you >>can choose 3 allies. You can also choose 3 younger vampires. But you >>cannot choose 1 ally and 2 youngers, or 2 allies and 1 younger? > > I would say, my opinion unguided, that it is a mix of allies and younger > vamps (not just allies exclusive-or vamps.) > The idea being it's a control type effect and controls "lesser beings." The > term minion could include older vamps. The term lesser minion never occurs > in VTES. Correct. The alternative wording the questioner is seeking is "three allies or three younger vampires". > The "predator and/or prey" gives a choice of who you can choose from. If > it was "and" then you'd have to get at least one from each Meth. If it was > just "or" then you would have to choose which Meth you were attacking > because it would be prey or predator directed. and/or means you can take > any combination from the two. > > > I'll leave #3 to folks with more experience. :) > Just remember I-RR!-ANLSJ >> #3. Normally cards have either a blood cost or a pool cost, not both. >> For example, with Watenda's text, you are "burning an amount of blood >> equal to the blood or pool cost of the card". If the opposing minion >> plays a Burning Wrath or Mythic Form, you obviously have to pay the 3 >> blood cost and not the 0 pool cost. >> >> However, what happens if there is both a pool cost *and* a blood cost? >> >> A. Watenda is in combat with Rex. Rex's controller has a Chiram's >> Hold with a Caseless Rounds on it. Rex wants to play a Caseless Rounds >> on his shiny Assault Rifle. It thus costs 1 pool and 2 blood. Watenda >> wants to use his special to cancel the card. How much blood does >> Watenda need to burn? Three. >> B. Marie Faucigny wants to equip with a Polaris Coach from her >> controller's ashheap via Filchware's Pawn Shop. The cost is 1 blood >> *and* 1 pool. Can Marie's controller choose whether her special applies >> to the blood or pool cost? My guess is yes. Yes. -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

<de...@hell.is> wrote >carl >> that not only must the vampire actually be involved, personally, in the >>combat but they must receive damage. > incorrect, see (from the WW-VTES rulings page): > # Anathema: Burns the target vampire when the target is reduced to zero > blood in combat, regardless of the source of the loss of blood (card yeah sorry. yes loss of blood. not just loss of blood caused by damage.