Thanks for answering the previous questions. Here are some more...
1)Can you please clarify the wording on Form of Mist (yet again). We keep
discussing that card and can't decide if it let's the acting minion
continue at just +1 stealth or +1 on top of whatever stealth that minion
had before it entered combat.
1b)If the minion plays a FoM can it play the same stealth cards it played
before it got into combat (if any)?
2)Vamp A taps to do something and Vamp B taps to block. Combat ends with
both minions still ready. Vamp C plays hidden lurker and gets into combat
with Vamp B. Combat ends once again with both minions still ready. Vamp D
plays a fast reaction and gets into combat with ??? Is it the original
acting Vamp A or is it with Vamp C who played hidden lurker? Does Vamp D
even have a choice?
3)After a Sleeping Mind card has been played at superior, can tapped
minions play a wake and deflect/misdirect a bleed (assuming the acting
vampire was attempting to bleed)? Does Sleeping Mind cancel any attempts
at playing a wake? or does it just cancel the untapping effects of a
Guard Dogs/2nd Tradition so on...?
Thanks again for any help...
Alex
I'm sure Scott will answer you also, but in case you are impatient here
are
the answers:
ALEX HARMON wrote:
>
> Thanks for answering the previous questions. Here are some more...
>
> 1)Can you please clarify the wording on Form of Mist (yet again). We keep
> discussing that card and can't decide if it let's the acting minion
> continue at just +1 stealth or +1 on top of whatever stealth that minion
> had before it entered combat.
> 1b)If the minion plays a FoM can it play the same stealth cards it played
> before it got into combat (if any)?
>
Form of Mist adds an additional +1 stealth. All other action modifiers
are
still in effect and thus can not be duplicated as a minion can not play
the
same action modifier on the same action.
> 2)Vamp A taps to do something and Vamp B taps to block. Combat ends with
> both minions still ready. Vamp C plays hidden lurker and gets into combat
> with Vamp B. Combat ends once again with both minions still ready. Vamp D
> plays a fast reaction and gets into combat with ??? Is it the original
> acting Vamp A or is it with Vamp C who played hidden lurker? Does Vamp D
> even have a choice?
>
This has been answered already by Scott and I think this was the
answer...
D can not play the Fast Reaction as there is no longer a blocking
minion.
Hidden Lurker, in a way, trumphed the Fast Reaction.
> 3)After a Sleeping Mind card has been played at superior, can tapped
> minions play a wake and deflect/misdirect a bleed (assuming the acting
> vampire was attempting to bleed)? Does Sleeping Mind cancel any attempts
> at playing a wake? or does it just cancel the untapping effects of a
> Guard Dogs/2nd Tradition so on...?
>
The wording on this one is pretty clear. A waking minion is not
untapped.
Thus a waking minion cannot block this action by card text but it CAN
react in other ways. The card only mentions affects on untapping and
blocking. Wakes and other forms of reactions are not affected.
[ quoted text not captured ]
ALEX HARMON wrote:
>
> Thanks for answering the previous questions. Here are some more...
>
> 1)Can you please clarify the wording on Form of Mist (yet again). We keep
> discussing that card and can't decide if it let's the acting minion
> continue at just +1 stealth or +1 on top of whatever stealth that minion
> had before it entered combat.
"+1" stealth is, by nature, additive. If it were meant to reset your
stealth to 1, then it would be written as "1 stealth" without the
plus sign. All stealth bonuses always apply for the duration of the
action (unless reset explicitly by cards like Veiled Sight).
> 1b)If the minion plays a FoM can it play the same stealth cards it played
> before it got into combat (if any)?
No, because of the restriction against playing more than one of
the same action modifier per action.
> 2)Vamp A taps to do something and Vamp B taps to block. Combat ends with
> both minions still ready. Vamp C plays hidden lurker and gets into combat
> with Vamp B. Combat ends once again with both minions still ready. Vamp D
> plays a fast reaction and gets into combat with ??? Is it the original
> acting Vamp A or is it with Vamp C who played hidden lurker? Does Vamp D
> even have a choice?
Fast Reaction cannot be played after the Hidden Lurker combat.
> 3)After a Sleeping Mind card has been played at superior, can tapped
> minions play a wake and deflect/misdirect a bleed (assuming the acting
> vampire was attempting to bleed)? Does Sleeping Mind cancel any attempts
> at playing a wake? or does it just cancel the untapping effects of a
> Guard Dogs/2nd Tradition so on...?
Sleeping Mind does not restrict Wake. It only restricts actual untapping
(like Guard Dogs/2nd Tradition) and it prevents tapped minions from
blocking (so the Wakes cnnot be used to block, despite card text).
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com)
Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
(*) - Subject to review by Rules Team
L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> Fast Reaction cannot be played after the Hidden Lurker combat.
>
I went and read both Hidden Lurker and Fast Reaction, and the only
reason I can see that you cant fast reaction someone who has just hidden
lurkered (?) is that fast reaction has a clause about entering combat
after a 'blocking minion' of yours completes combat. Therefore, A minion
who has just been hidden lurkered must be considered as no longer
blocking even if the action that initiated the original combat was
blocked. Which is fine. However I would like some kind of comprehensive
(definitive even) answer to the question 'when does an action end?' if
possible LSJ. Does Psyche simply restart the combat or does it end the
action? That kind of thing...
James B
James B. Floate wrote:
> L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> > Fast Reaction cannot be played after the Hidden Lurker combat.
> >
> I went and read both Hidden Lurker and Fast Reaction, and the only
> reason I can see that you cant fast reaction someone who has just hidden
> lurkered (?) is that fast reaction has a clause about entering combat
> after a 'blocking minion' of yours completes combat.
The Jyhad text also required that the opposing minion be the acting
minion. The ruling stems from an effort to maintain the pair of cards
(Fast Reaction and Hidden Lurker) as close to their original intent
as possible. Such rulings would not be made if started today (intentions
no longer hold sway in the face of card text), ...
So, Fast Reaction cannot be played after Hidden Lurker since the
blocking minion has not "just completed combat" with the acting
minion. Rather, he's just completed combat with some modifying
minion. But he is still the blocking minion.
> Therefore, A minion
> who has just been hidden lurkered must be considered as no longer
> blocking even if the action that initiated the original combat was
> blocked. Which is fine. However I would like some kind of comprehensive
> (definitive even) answer to the question 'when does an action end?' if
> possible LSJ. Does Psyche simply restart the combat or does it end the
> action? That kind of thing...
The action doesn't end until another action begins or the minion
phase ends. (i.e., it doesn't end until all effects modifying the
action or the resulting combat(s) are finished and no Methuselah wish
to play any new effects on the action/combat). For the duration of
the action, the acting minion is still the acting minion (unless
effects like Mask explcitly change that) and the blocking minion is
still the blocking minion (subject to card text). (*)
Psyche restarts the combat. The nature of the combatants remains the
same (e.g., if the first combat was between the acting minion and
the blocking minion, then the Psyche'd combat would involve the same
minions, who would still be considered the acting minion and the
blocking minion, respectively.)
Is that complete enough, or have I omitted/overlooked something?
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) wrote:
: So, Fast Reaction cannot be played after Hidden Lurker since the: blocking minion has not "just completed combat" with the acting
: minion. Rather, he's just completed combat with some modifying
: minion. But he is still the blocking minion.
So just to make sure, this terminology allows a second Hidden
Lurker to be played by a third minion on the acting side, since
the blocking minion has just completed combat with one of your
minions, yes? Similarly, multiple Fast Reactions can be played
to pound some poor shmoe of an acting minion, right?
-Dave Green
[ quoted text not captured ]
No. This is exactly what this terminology seeks to avoid.
The second Hidden Lurker cannot be played, since the combat (the
first Hidden Lurker combat) doesn't involve the *acting* minion.
Fast Reaction cannot be played after a Fast Reaction, since the
combat doesn't involve the *blocking* minion.
Fast Reaction cannot be played after Hidden Lurker because the
combat doesn't involve the acting minion.
Hidden Lurker cannot be played after Fast Reaction because the
combat doesn't involve the blocking minion.
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> The action doesn't end until another action begins or the minion
> phase ends. (i.e., it doesn't end until all effects modifying the
> action or the resulting combat(s) are finished and no Methuselah wish
> to play any new effects on the action/combat). For the duration of
> the action, the acting minion is still the acting minion (unless
> effects like Mask explcitly change that) and the blocking minion is
> still the blocking minion (subject to card text). (*)
>
> Psyche restarts the combat. The nature of the combatants remains the
> same (e.g., if the first combat was between the acting minion and
> the blocking minion, then the Psyche'd combat would involve the same
> minions, who would still be considered the acting minion and the
> blocking minion, respectively.)
>
> Is that complete enough, or have I omitted/overlooked something?
well..... i am not sure about some of my points, but let me check:
a) "do not replace until after combat" also meant "do not replace until
end of action"
b) you told me if a psyche was used to restart a combat from a bum's
rush, that the bum's rush could be replaced.
now....point a) suggests to me that if you, say, rampaged someone's
location, and it was not blocked, then if you replaced the rampage, then
you have decided to end your minion phase, because you didn't start a
new action (which is the other criterion for indicating an action is
over).
so you're not allowed to replace a "do not replace" card until you start
a new action, so this is not a good way to cycle looking for an action
card.
point b) suggests to me that if you psyche, there is no longer an
action...and thus if you played FoM at superior in the resulting combat,
all it wuld do would end combat, not continue the action....
my worries about point b) are moot (no, not a master out-of-turn) if "do
not replace until after combat" really means:
"do not replace until after combat, or, if there was no combat, after
the action is completed",
NOT:
"do not replace until after the combat (if any) AND the action is
completed"
which still leaves point a) valid, as far as i can work it.
now i'm confused.
salem....
salem christ.... wrote:
> L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> > The action doesn't end until another action begins or the minion
> > phase ends. (i.e., it doesn't end until all effects modifying the
> > action or the resulting combat(s) are finished and no Methuselah wish
> > to play any new effects on the action/combat). For the duration of
> > the action, the acting minion is still the acting minion (unless
> > effects like Mask explcitly change that) and the blocking minion is
> > still the blocking minion (subject to card text). (*)
> >
> > Psyche restarts the combat. The nature of the combatants remains the
> > same (e.g., if the first combat was between the acting minion and
> > the blocking minion, then the Psyche'd combat would involve the same
> > minions, who would still be considered the acting minion and the
> > blocking minion, respectively.)
> >
> > Is that complete enough, or have I omitted/overlooked something?
>
> well..... i am not sure about some of my points, but let me check:
>
> a) "do not replace until after combat" also meant "do not replace until
> end of action"
Correct. The cards which say "do not replace until after combat" are
replaced at the next end of combat or at the end of the action, whichever
comes first.
> b) you told me if a psyche was used to restart a combat from a bum's
> rush, that the bum's rush could be replaced.
Correct. The combat is ended, so the "do not replace until after combat"
cards are replaced. (BTW, Psyche doesn't restart the combat - it simply
starts a new combat. Sorry for misspeaking earlier.)
> now....point a) suggests to me that if you, say, rampaged someone's
> location, and it was not blocked, then if you replaced the rampage, then
> you have decided to end your minion phase, because you didn't start a
> new action (which is the other criterion for indicating an action is
> over).
Hmm. OK. So just use the alternate wording of the rule:
" (i.e., it doesn't end until all effects modifying the action or the
resulting combat(s) are finished and no Methuselah wish to play any
new effects on the action/combat)."
The part about a new action was just intended as a simpler way of
stating this, but I see now that they are not exactly the same. Sorry
about that.
So, the Rampage is finished when all Methuselah's have nothing more
to modify/react.
> so you're not allowed to replace a "do not replace" card until you start
> a new action, so this is not a good way to cycle looking for an action
> card.
Right. So this criterion is in error. You *are* allowed to replace
"do not replace" cards, despite my earlier phrasing.
> point b) suggests to me that if you psyche, there is no longer an
> action...and thus if you played FoM at superior in the resulting combat,
> all it wuld do would end combat, not continue the action....
I do not see this logic. Replacing a card and ending an action are not
the same thing. In point b), the card was replaced because a combat
had ended. But this is not the same thing as ending the action.
> my worries about point b) are moot (no, not a master out-of-turn) if "do
> not replace until after combat" really means:
> "do not replace until after combat, or, if there was no combat, after
> the action is completed",
> NOT:
> "do not replace until after the combat (if any) AND the action is
> completed"
> which still leaves point a) valid, as far as i can work it.
It means the former.
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ (VtES Rep) wrote:
>
> salem christ.... wrote:
> > L. Scott Johnson wrote:
> > > The action doesn't end until another action begins or the minion
> > > phase ends. (i.e., it doesn't end until all effects modifying the
<more>
Pooh Bottom Curses! My server crashed and I didnt get the response to my
original post. Could you please post it again LSJ or mail me direct? I
would appreciate it. See you, I am off to check out other providers...
James B.