[Card idea] Prey-blocker for Nos

A card that make one of your Nosferatus a prey-punishing blocker (Annekes ability). Too good or? The Scarecrow scourge Nosferatu Type: Action Cost: 2 blood +1 stealth action. Unique. Put this card on this acting vampire. This vampire may attempt to block a vampire controlled by another Methuselah after others have declined or failed to block.

Good idea, but I'm not a fan of the card. I'd prefer a !Nos location tha tyou'd tap to give a !Nos the possibility to block a minion of your prey. -- Orpheus Nearly made it to LSJ's Killfile !! <as...@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news: 1169721085.9...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

Orpheus wrote: > Good idea, but I'm not a fan of the card. I'd prefer a !Nos location tha > tyou'd tap to give a !Nos the possibility to block a minion of your prey. > hmm you mean that you think the !nos are worse off regarding clan goodies than the nos? if so i disagree >>A card that make one of your Nosferatus a prey-punishing blocker >>(Annekes ability). Too good or? >> >>The Scarecrow scourge >>Nosferatu >>Type: Action >>Cost: 2 blood >>+1 stealth action. Unique. >>Put this card on this acting vampire. This vampire may attempt to block >>a vampire controlled by another Methuselah after others have declined >>or failed to block. Yeah its too good. But i see where you are going. Maybe a reaction card that works like superior eagle's sight, is free, doesn't require disciplines but does require Nosferatu. Frede

> Orpheus wrote: > > > Good idea, but I'm not a fan of the card. I'd prefer a !Nos location tha > > tyou'd tap to give a !Nos the possibility to block a minion of your prey. > > > > hmm you mean that you think the !nos are worse off regarding clan > goodies than the nos? > > if so i disagree No, I think that : 1) it fits better thematically with the !Nos than the Nos, as for the cards that have been printed until now 2) The Nos have Princes, and at least one Tier1 deck, not including the ones with Beast (and any of the 2 clans). That also gives them access to 2nd Trad, which with such a card (and the occasional Raven Spy...) could be devastating ! So I think the best would be to make such a card either for the !Nos or for both sects, but anything that encourages playing "other" decks than Camarilla Tier1 is good IMO. -- Orpheus ---------------------------------------- "I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, ... but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." --Robert McCloskey

[ quoted text not captured ] Too good as a permanent. certainly when combinable with 2nd trad. as others have already said.

You think it would be balanced with Cailean getting his claws on this? I think not.

On Jan 25, 7:31 am, FC <f...@kemi.dtu.dk> wrote: > Orpheus wrote: > > Good idea, but I'm not a fan of the card. I'd prefer a !Nos location tha > > tyou'd tap to give a !Nos the possibility to block a minion of your prey.hmm you mean that you think the !nos are worse off regarding clan > goodies than the nos? > > if so i disagree > Frede Worse off? Sure. The Nos have more toys than the !Nos do, and both of them have a couple of good ones - but the !Nos in general have less clan-specific cards than just about any Sabbat/Indy/Cam clan save the Panders. And sadly, half of the limited pool of !Nos cards simply duplicate what other clans also get, greatly reducing the distinction of this clan over any other. Realistically, the !Nos have only four clan-specific cards that set them apart as being able to do things distinct from other clans: Using the Advantage, Courier, Dirty Little Secrets and Steam Tunnels. DLS is both weak and has only been reprinted in 10th edition tins; many players don't have ready access and wouldn't use it if they did. Courier and UtA are strong cards, but Steam Tunnels gets a lot of scorn from the community - I like it a lot, but many people don't. As a result, there's very little that the !Nos clan cards allow them to do that would encourage a player to play that clan that isn't just a retread of other clan's clan-specific cards, _plus_ they don't have many clan cards to begin with, comparatively. So IMO, they're not just worse off than the Nos, they're worse off than just about every other Sabbat/Cam/Independent clan, in some cases by far... (That said, it was a very nice thing to see the better Sabbat-era !Nos cards _finally_ reprinted in 3rd; in a recent pick-up game I got a distressing-to-the-table amount of pool thanks to multiple Using the Advantages...) -John Flournoy -ex !Nos newsletter-writer

John Flournoy schrieb: > Worse off? Sure. The Nos have more toys than the !Nos do, and both of > them have a couple of good ones - but the !Nos in general have less > clan-specific cards than just about any Sabbat/Indy/Cam clan save the > Panders. And sadly, half of the limited pool of !Nos cards simply > duplicate what other clans also get, greatly reducing the distinction > of this clan over any other. > > Realistically, the !Nos have only four clan-specific cards that set > them apart as being able to do things distinct from other clans: Using > the Advantage, Courier, Dirty Little Secrets and Steam Tunnels. DLS is > both weak and has only been reprinted in 10th edition tins; many > players don't have ready access and wouldn't use it if they did. > Courier and UtA are strong cards, but Steam Tunnels gets a lot of scorn > from the community - I like it a lot, but many people don't. Yes, but it愀 not only the unique effects that make a clan strong but also the unique combination of rather common effects. Information Network and Nosferatu Kingdom are super powerfull cards and not many clans have access to a transfer down AND an intercept master. > As a result, there's very little that the !Nos clan cards allow them to > do that would encourage a player to play that clan that isn't just a > retread of other clan's clan-specific cards, _plus_ they don't have > many clan cards to begin with, comparatively. > > So IMO, they're not just worse off than the Nos, they're worse off than > just about every other Sabbat/Cam/Independent clan, in some cases by > far... Well their spread of vampires is excellent in my opinion. While they share the disciplines with Cam Nos, they have excellent specials on quite a few vampires: Teresite (+1 int against Cam), Beast (rush, +1 strength), Mateusz (+2 strength), Julio (+1 int against Cam, +1 strength), Calebos (+1 strength), Cailean (set range). Especially the fact that multiple vampires have plus strength and most have a very good discipline spread (a lot of 3 in-clan Sup) make the !Nos quite strong in my opinion. The Nos in comparison have (esp. in the 5-8 capacity range) usually less superior disciplines making them less usefull. To sum it up: For a intercept/combat deck I would always prefer !Nos over Nos even without the access to 2nd Trad. Of course the Nos are powerfull when including votes, but thats true for most Cam clans. Johannes

as...@hotmail.com schrieb: [ quoted text not captured ] I don愒 like that abilities that are limited to one discpline (at superior), namely AUS (+Anneke who also has AUS) are made available to a wide range of vampires (all Nos or !Nos). *IF* there is the need to improve a clan (hardly needed by neither Nos nor !Nos) I think it is better to stick to new(like new to the game) or allready existent concepts for that clan. And of course that card is too powerfull. You could run Sheldon (with Eagle愀 Sight) + another prince with this and it gets real ugly. -- johannes walch

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm not so sure this card is necessary, but I would agree that the !Nos are lacking in the number of clan-specific cards. Post third edition, here are the standard Sabbat clan tallies: !Brujah: 9 !Gangrel: 11 Lasombra: 10 !Malkavian: 10 !Nosferatu: 8 !Toreador: 8 !Tremere: 12 Tzimisce: 10 !Ventrue: 8 In Third Edition, only !Brujah, !Malks and !Tremere got new clan specific cards. I kind of wish there had been one per clan in Third Edition. Clearly, clan specific cards have potential to define the character of each clan more than any other cards in the game. There's a lot of potential upside here. Interestingly, the classic independent clans have way more specialized cards (~20) than regular clans (~10). I'm sure some of this is related to the in-clan disciplines shared by Brujah and !Brujah, for example. Since you can easily share a crypt, you can also take advantage of those clans' power cards. Still, there is lots of space for exploration within clans. It's also probably easier to keep the game "balanced" working in this space, rather than by adding an incredible new Dominate card for example. As for your actual card, I think it is way too strong because it give unlimited block ability. How about something like this: Tipoff Nosferatu antitribu Action (D): Place this card on a minion controlled by your prey. You still control this card. You may burn this card during an action to allow a Nosferatu antitribu you control to attempt to block this minion ignoring the normal prey, predator, or target restrictions for blocking actions. Not quite as good as Eagle's Sight/Falcon's Eye since it requires an action and is restricted to a single clan, but it does provide much of what you want. The good thing about this card is that you can have some small Nosferatu tipoff a bigger one as to the minion's location. Jeff

The Scarecrow Scourge V 1.1 !Nosferatu Type: Action +1 stealth action. Unique. Put this card on this acting vampire. This vampire may burn a blood to attempt to block a vampire controlled by your predator or prey after others have declined or failed (ignoring the normal prey, predator or target restrictions for blocking actions).

[ quoted text not captured ] Mmm. Sure, it gets more balanced with a cost. But I do not want Cailean to be able to play it. He don´t need to get any more fascist than he is, thanks.

On Jan 25, 12:34 pm, Johannes Walch <johannes.wa...@vekn.de> wrote: Julio (+1 int against Cam, +1 > strength) "Julio may burn a blood to get +1 intercept when attempting to block a Camarilla vampire." Doesn't Julio have +X against Cam, where X is how much blood he wants and needs to burn? There's nothing in the wording that would limit it to once per action.

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/da00c69244f50217

On Jan 25, 11:34 am, Johannes Walch <johannes.wa...@vekn.de> wrote: > John Flournoy schrieb: > > Realistically, the !Nos have only four clan-specific cards that set > > them apart as being able to do things distinct from other clans: Using > > the Advantage, Courier, Dirty Little Secrets and Steam Tunnels. DLS is > > both weak and has only been reprinted in 10th edition tins; many > > players don't have ready access and wouldn't use it if they did. > > Courier and UtA are strong cards, but Steam Tunnels gets a lot of scorn > > from the community - I like it a lot, but many people don't. > Yes, but it´s not only the unique effects that make a clan strong but > also the unique combination of rather common effects. Information > Network and Nosferatu Kingdom are super powerfull cards and not many > clans have access to a transfer down AND an intercept master. Sure. But the fact that _any_ other clans have access to it makes it no longer 'unique', just 'uncommon' - and there's just not very much in the way of clan-specific cards that make the !Nos distinct and unique from other clans (both in quantity and variety.) > > So IMO, they're not just worse off than the Nos, they're worse off than > > just about every other Sabbat/Cam/Independent clan, in some cases by > > far... > Well their spread of vampires is excellent in my opinion. Agreed, definitely - There are plenty of (other) good reasons to play !Nos, and other factors that set them apart from other clans, but clan-specific cards really isn't one of them, and the relative inferiority of the clan-specific cards was what I was focusing my remarks on rather than discussing other factors. (Especially since I addressed some of the other factors like specific vampires or strategies in some newsletters.) > Johannes -John Flournoy

In message <1169814237.1...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [ quoted text not captured ] One alternative, which may or may not be appropriate, would be a capacity restriction, a la Atonement. That way, it stays away from the fuck-monsters. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

On Jan 26, 2:13 pm, James Coupe <j...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > In message <1169814237.142808.282...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > > > > a...@hotmail.com writes: > >On 26 Jan, 01:45, "Wookie813" <veknpont...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> The Scarecrow Scourge V 1.1 > >> !Nosferatu > >> Type: Action > >> +1 stealth action. Unique. > >> Put this card on this acting vampire. This vampire may burn a blood to > >> attempt to block > >> a vampire controlled by your predator or prey after others have > >> declined > >> or failed (ignoring the normal prey, predator or target restrictions > >> for blocking actions). One alternative, which may or may not be appropriate, would be a > capacity restriction, a la Atonement. That way, it stays away from the > fuck-monsters. That's not a bad idea. A "Capacity less than six" clause would then make "Attoned Scarecrows" a deck concept.

[ quoted text not captured ] Yeah. Sound like something I would play right after I´m bored of my Mummy´s Tounge-Tortured Confession-deck.

On Jan 27, 3:41 am, a...@hotmail.com wrote: > On 27 Jan, 04:55, "Wookie813" <veknpont...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Jan 26, 2:13 pm, James Coupe <j...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > > > That's not a bad idea. A "Capacity less than six" clause would then > > make "Attoned Scarecrows" a deck concept.Yeah. Sound like something I would play right after I´m bored of my > Mummy´s Tounge-Tortured Confession-deck. You may joke about that but Atonement is strong. I see that concept as being very, very broken. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

On 27 Jan, 14:37, "XZealot" <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > You may joke about that but Atonement is strong. I see that concept as being very, > very broken. Why would it be broken? And why is Atonement strong? I seldom see it in games, or in TWDA.

> > Mummy´s Tounge-Tortured Confession-deck. You may joke about that but Atonement is strong. I see that concept > as being very, very broken. I think the idea has potential to be strong-ish but not broken. It would make possible a !Nos wall. The deck would take a lot of non-D actions with midcaps and the deck would require plenty of untap/ reactions to hold, relying on Masters to oust. It's slowness would be balanced by it's staying power (in theory, and like most wall concepts). Atonement Type: Action Requires: capacity below 6 Cost: 2 blood Requires a ready vampire with a capacity below 6. +1 stealth action. Put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire gets +1 intercept when attempting to block. He or she does not tap when blocking a vampire of the same age or younger. Any vampire may burn this card as a (D) action; Followers of Set get -1 stealth when attempting that action. The Scarecrow Scourge V 1.2 !Nosferatu Type: Action +1 stealth action. Unique. Requires a vampire of capacity less than 6. Put this card on this acting vampire. This vampire may burn a blood to attempt to block a vampire controlled by your predator or prey after others have declined or failed (ignoring the normal prey, predator or target restrictions for blocking actions). The SS being unique, it would give one midcap opprotunity to thwart your Prey's forward motion. Stackable Atonements provide excellent defense against weenie and stealth bleed (if you can live long enough to get them into play). Combined with the bird retainers and an media loc it could provide a new angle from which to approach the !Nos, which I think would be a good thing. The cost would be high in minion actions and blood, too. I think it would be hard to break, but my win %, though skewed by my perpensity to play Assamites and abhorence of OBF + Bleed, shows that I often don't see the really good combos and lack the heart to be brutal.

On 28 Jan, 21:15, "Wookie813" <veknpont...@yahoo.com> wrote: > The Scarecrow Scourge V 1.2 > !Nosferatu > Type: Action > +1 stealth action. Unique. > Requires a vampire of capacity less than 6. > Put this card on this acting vampire. This vampire may burn a blood to > attempt to block a vampire controlled by your predator or prey after > others have > declined or failed (ignoring the normal prey, predator or target > restrictions > for blocking actions). I still don´t get why you want it to be !Nos instead of Nos. By making it Nos we would maybe create a new concept (Nos block-deck) instead of just reinforcing an old one (!Nos block deck). > The SS being unique, it would give one midcap opprotunity to thwart > your Prey's forward motion. This was the whole idea. A card that give you chance to punish your prey more directely than the ordinary booooring Smiling Jack-boredom. Making it unique was to not make it broken.

John Flournoy schrieb: > Agreed, definitely - There are plenty of (other) good reasons to play > !Nos, and other factors that set them apart from other clans, but > clan-specific cards really isn't one of them, and the relative > inferiority of the clan-specific cards was what I was focusing my > remarks on rather than discussing other factors. (Especially since I > addressed some of the other factors like specific vampires or > strategies in some newsletters.) Ok, I see where you are going and I think you are right. A few clan specific cards for the !Nos would not hurt even if they are very playable at the moment. Given the fact that such cards will be printed at some point I would welcome if they did not give additional intercept in any way. There is allready plenty of this available in the game. -- johannes walch

On Jan 28, 1:50 pm, a...@hotmail.com wrote: > On 27 Jan, 14:37, "XZealot" <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > You may joke about that but Atonement is strong. I see that concept as being very, > > very broken.Why would it be broken? And why is Atonement strong? I seldom see it > in games, or in TWDA. Just because no one realizes how good it is doesn't mean it's not good, see Temptation of Greater Power. When combined with an reaction card that actually untaps you (i.e. black sunrise, trophy:Domain or guard dogs) it is super strong. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] I might be totally off base here, but to me this wording is similar to Esau's wording (When Esau declares a bleed action, he may burn 1 blood to flip a coin. If it's heads, Esau gets an additional +1 bleed for that action. +1 bleed). If I recall correctly, it has been ruled that Esau's ability can only be used once per action. So why is it different with Julio? -- Regards, Daneel

[ quoted text not captured ] From the thread around the link cited as above: When/If X happens, you can do Y implies once (for an instantaneous event X). When/If X is happening, you can do Y is ambiguous, and tends to mean more than once (for X that are ongoing) (Greta matched that pattern, and was errata'ed to be once).

In article <1170063081.5...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, as...@hotmail.com wrote: > On 28 Jan, 21:15, "Wookie813" <veknpont...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I still don´t get why you want it to be !Nos instead of Nos. By making > it Nos we would maybe create a new concept (Nos block-deck) instead of > just reinforcing an old one (!Nos block deck). Why can't you do this already with, ya know, AUS and Eagle's Sight? You can build a deck around Sheldon (who has AUS, for, and is a Justicar to combo with 2nd) or Khalid (who can hang out with Ingram Frizer), and both of them have good pals with aus to hang out with and give a skill card to. I'm unconvinced that this is something that requires inventing a new card to facilitate. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html

> Why can't you do this already with, ya know, AUS and Eagle's Sight? You > can build a deck around Sheldon (who has AUS, for, and is a Justicar to > combo with 2nd) or Khalid (who can hang out with Ingram Frizer), and > both of them have good pals with aus to hang out with and give a skill > card to. I'm unconvinced that this is something that requires inventing > a new card to facilitate. I can do it with Sheldon - but I don´t wanna play group 1. And I do not wanna play a card for the ability. Sorry for suggesting a new card. I didn´t want to upset anyone.