[LSJ] Title votes

Hi all, This came up last week during a game, and it caused an interesting debate. We decided that it could work, but would like to get an official answer (in the end it didn't matter, as it was voted down, but still ...). The set up is as follows. I'm playing a Daughter/weenie Ventrue vote deck (and ended up playing against 3 other vote/high voting decks). My prey is playing Ventrue, and has Arika and Lucinde in play. I get the sneaky idea to call Ventrue Justicar, but instead of choosing my one piddly Ventrue, I choose Arika, in the hopes that if the vote passes, Arika becomes the Ventrue Justicar. But since my prey also has Lucinde in play, that the Justicar title is then immediately be given up, as a methuselah cannot self-contest. Net result, Arika loses her 4 votes. So the question is, can this be done? The argument against was that since a player cannot self-contest, the vote couldn't be used on Arika since he already had a Ventrue Justicar in play. The argument for it is a title being contested, not the actual card (i.e. if I have voted someone into being the Prince of Paris, that doesn't prevent me from bringing out Francois Villon, just that one of my vampires must give up the title immediately, correct?). By extention, could Praxis Seizures/Crusades be called on vampires controlled by a player who also controls the Prince/Archbishop of the city in question? Name: Ventrue Justicar [Jyhad:R, VTES:R, CE:R] Venture Justicar Cardtype: Political Action Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. Choose a ready Ventrue. Successful referendum means he or she is declared Ventrue Justicar. In this referendum, each Ventrue gets 1 extra vote. This could lead to a contested title. Thanks! Chris, aka Martin, Elder of Clan Tremere

[ quoted text not captured ] A methuselah's minions may contest titles with each other. A methuselah may *not* contest unique *cards* with himself (and will burn the next one that comes into play). > By extention, could Praxis Seizures/Crusades be called on vampires > controlled by a player who also controls the Prince/Archbishop of the > city in question? They can be called, and will contest until the next untap phase (at which point, a smart methuselah will order one of them to yield, unless he has some Secret Plan(tm) to make them both Go Anarch and/or get Garlicked or play some other card that requires a non-titled vampire, or whatever). John

<jnew...@difsol.com> wrote in message news:1112293773.6...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... > martin_tremere wrote: > > I'm playing a Daughter/weenie Ventrue vote deck (and ended up playing > > against 3 other vote/high voting decks). My prey is playing Ventrue, > > and has Arika and Lucinde in play. > > > > I get the sneaky idea to call Ventrue Justicar, but instead of choosing > > my one piddly Ventrue, I choose Arika, in the hopes that if the vote > > passes, Arika becomes the Ventrue Justicar. But since my prey also has > > Lucinde in play, that the Justicar title is then immediately be given > > up, as a methuselah cannot self-contest. Net result, Arika loses her 4 > > votes. > A methuselah's minions may contest titles with each other. A methuselah > may *not* contest unique *cards* with himself (and will burn the next > one that comes into play). Correct. So, if the referendum passes, Arika becomes Ventrue Justicar and contests the title with Lucinde. > > By extention, could Praxis Seizures/Crusades be called on vampires > > controlled by a player who also controls the Prince/Archbishop of the > > city in question? > > They can be called, and will contest until the next untap phase (at > which point, a smart methuselah will order one of them to yield, unless > he has some Secret Plan(tm) to make them both Go Anarch and/or get > Garlicked or play some other card that requires a non-titled vampire, > or whatever). Note that while one yields, the other would have to also yield unless he or she paid a blood to contest. If one contests and the other yields, then the one who didn't yield still won't get the title back until the *next* untap phase (not the current one). -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (Remove spam trap to reply). V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

LSJ a écrit : [ quoted text not captured ] Wow ! Quite a notebook case. The sort of things that you'd think never happens. But it did ! I'm impressed. Do all the players play Ventrue in your part of town ? ;) Orpheus

> > >>>I'm playing a Daughter/weenie Ventrue vote deck (and ended up playing > >>>against 3 other vote/high voting decks). My prey is playing Ventrue, > >>>and has Arika and Lucinde in play. > >>>I get the sneaky idea to call Ventrue Justicar, but instead of choosing > >>>my one piddly Ventrue, I choose Arika, in the hopes that if the vote > >>>passes, Arika becomes the Ventrue Justicar. But since my prey also has > >>>Lucinde in play, that the Justicar title is then immediately be given > >>>up, as a methuselah cannot self-contest. Net result, Arika loses her 4 > >>>votes. > > Correct. > > So, if the referendum passes, Arika becomes Ventrue Justicar and contests > > the title with Lucinde. Just to be sure, then - Arika loses her 4 votes permanently? > Wow ! Quite a notebook case. The sort of things that you'd think never > happens. But it did ! I'm impressed. > > Do all the players play Ventrue in your part of town ? ;) No... this game was warped. In our combat heavy, theme-deck heavy metagame somehow 4 out of 6 players decided to play vote heavy decks, only one of which was a pure Ventrue deck. My vote deck got crushed between two decks with 7 votes each on the table. Derek

"Derek Rawlings" <dmraw...@telus.net> wrote in message news:424C5557...@telus.net... > > > So, if the referendum passes, Arika becomes Ventrue Justicar and contests > > > the title with Lucinde. > > Just to be sure, then - Arika loses her 4 votes permanently? She loses the IC title as soon as she gains another, even if the second is immediately contested, yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <424C5557...@telus.net>, Derek Rawlings <dmraw...@telus.net> writes: >> > So, if the referendum passes, Arika becomes Ventrue Justicar and contests >> > the title with Lucinde. > >Just to be sure, then - Arika loses her 4 votes permanently? Whenever you gain a new title (even if that title is immediately contested), you relinquish the old one, permanently. So yes, no more 4 vote Arika goodness. -- James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?" 13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:31:53 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> scrawled: >In message <424C5557...@telus.net>, Derek Rawlings ><dmraw...@telus.net> writes: >>> > So, if the referendum passes, Arika becomes Ventrue Justicar and contests >>> > the title with Lucinde. >> >>Just to be sure, then - Arika loses her 4 votes permanently? > >Whenever you gain a new title (even if that title is immediately >contested), you relinquish the old one, permanently. > >So yes, no more 4 vote Arika goodness. but if she yielded, then she can become anarch, and then she can become Liason. yay! back to 4 votes! salem http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)