It seems like a promising card, especially because it appears to be
stackable. I especially like the design choice made that allows
opponents to remove it - but with real cost and difficulty. Finally,
a way to remove a permanent that isn't just, "Take an unblocked
action and it's gone." It's good to see the designers beginning to
use some real imagination about this point. And I've been bitching
a lot about design lately. It's also good to point out something
new I really like.
Anyway, now I want to steal your ideas. What's the best way to
introduce your prey's vampires to the concept of torpor? And get
them back out again so they can go back in again, preferably? Has
anyone achieved any noticeable success doing this so far?
If I were to design a deck off the top of my head, I guess my first
crack at it would start out with Blood Brothers, Gargoyles, Jimmy
Dunn and so forth for the Pot-For and just try to Grapple/prevent/
Disarm. Maybe use Kiss of Ra as well. But I think there's other
choices someone could make, such as Malk or !Malk deck full of Comas
or a Lasombra deck with Entombments.
Fred
Frederick Scott <freds64_at_...@removethis.com> wrote:
> It seems like a promising card, especially because it appears to be
> stackable. I especially like the design choice made that allows
What part of "Unique" makes it stackable?
[ quoted text not captured ]
Ack! I thought I remembered that but I kept looking at the card *text*
to figure out why it shouldn't be stackable.
(What charm you have in pointing out another's mistake.)
Fred
"Frederick Scott" <freds64_at_...@removethis.com> wrote in message
news:3DB09FDF...@removethis.com...
> Anyway, now I want to steal your ideas. What's the best way to
> introduce your prey's vampires to the concept of torpor? And get
> them back out again so they can go back in again, preferably? Has
> anyone achieved any noticeable success doing this so far?
>
> If I were to design a deck off the top of my head, I guess my first
> crack at it would start out with Blood Brothers, Gargoyles, Jimmy
> Dunn and so forth for the Pot-For and just try to Grapple/prevent/
> Disarm. Maybe use Kiss of Ra as well. But I think there's other
> choices someone could make, such as Malk or !Malk deck full of Comas
> or a Lasombra deck with Entombments.
Just put the card in any rush deck. Remember burning the vampires also
costs them a pool, so if you diablerise - they lose pool.
Thalles
"Frederick Scott" <freds64_at_...@removethis.com> wrote in message
news:3DB09FDF...@removethis.com...
[snip]
> Anyway, now I want to steal your ideas. What's the best way to
> introduce your prey's vampires to the concept of torpor? And get
> them back out again so they can go back in again, preferably? Has
> anyone achieved any noticeable success doing this so far?
The simplest idea that pops to mind is using it in a powerful combat deck
(insert whatever deck here :o) using Pulled Fangs with multiple copies of
Fame. All useful and damaging cards in their own right but together your
prey could be losing a vamp or two per turn plus 4-9 pool.
That's not very funny...... 4 from Fame/TitR - rescue (Humanitas?) - another
4 from 2nd rush and 1 from Fame on preys turn.
Keep it simple. Weenie to mid point POT or something maybe ?
Rob
Frederick Scott <freds64_at_...@removethis.com> wrote in message news:<3DB09FDF...@removethis.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Another question in regards to Tension in the Ranks, if you burn a
vampire in combat, does the opponent lose *two* pool ? Because, IIRC,
the first aggravated damage sends the opponent to torpor ( 1 pool ),
and subsequent additional aggravated damage burns the vampire ( 1 pool
). Correct or wrong ? :)
Magnus
On 19 Oct 2002 06:29:49 -0700, magn...@gmx.de (Magnus) wrote:
>Another question in regards to Tension in the Ranks, if you burn a
>vampire in combat, does the opponent lose *two* pool ?
No.
>Because, IIRC,
>the first aggravated damage sends the opponent to torpor ( 1 pool ),
No, it "wounds" the vampire, but it will not move to torpor until all
of the damage is resolved.
>and subsequent additional aggravated damage burns the vampire ( 1 pool
>). Correct or wrong ? :)
All of the damage is resolved at the same time. There is no step in
resolving multiple points of aggravated damage for you to stop, put
the vampire in torpor, then continue resolving the damage.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
http://www.TheLasombra.com
>>Because, IIRC,
>>the first aggravated damage sends the opponent to torpor ( 1 pool ),> No, it "wounds" the vampire, but it will not move to torpor until all
> of the damage is resolved.>>and subsequent additional aggravated damage burns the vampire ( 1 pool
>>). Correct or wrong ? :)> All of the damage is resolved at the same time. There is no step in
> resolving multiple points of aggravated damage for you to stop, put
> the vampire in torpor, then continue resolving the damage.
And besides, Tension in the Ranks only works on ready vampires.
Vampires in Torpor who burn don't trigger it.
Magnus wrote:
:: Another question in regards to Tension in the Ranks, if you burn a
:: vampire in combat, does the opponent lose *two* pool ?
No way !
excerpt from card text of amaranth : "Only usable when the opposing vampire
should go to torpor. Diablerize the opposing vampire *instead*"
excerpt from card text of decapitate : "Burn the opposing vampire instead of
sending that vampire to torpor."
here you are =)
"The Horror" <tdem...@anhb.uwa.edu.au> wrote in message
news:aoqkc1$io1$1...@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
>>>> Just put the card in any rush deck. Remember burning the vampires also
> costs them a pool, so if you diablerise - they lose pool.
>
IIRC, Tension in the Ranks only causes pool loss for the torporizing or burning
of a *ready* minion, which means usually diablerizing will not cause pool loss
(basically the only exception is Amaranth, which simply changes them going to
torpor to them burning, either of which would have caused a pool loss).
"Frederick Scott" <freds64_at_...@removethis.com> wrote in
message news:3DB09FDF...@removethis.com
> Anyway, now I want to steal your ideas. What's the best way to
> introduce your prey's vampires to the concept of torpor? And get
> them back out again so they can go back in again, preferably? Has
> anyone achieved any noticeable success doing this so far?
You could put in a gangrel tactic using Dawn Operation, Drawing out the
Beast and Form of Mist. You can replace the Form of Mist with Elysium
Arboretum, but you won't get the actual action (whatever it is) through.
I you are going Gangrel, Wolf Claws and prevention with Ritual Challenge
or Depravity (there are so many ways to avoid one point of damage, but
it gets harded with two or three) and using Fortitude to avoid damage
yourself works for me quite well. If you use !Gangrel, you can then
diablerise and cancel the blood hunt if the votes aren't going your way.
To get into combat, look no further than Wynn. Fame also goes in this
for that extra kick.
Any agg damage and Rotschreck when you block their actions is always
good, and stops people playing tiresome damage prevention or strike:
Combat ends. Tremere are always good at this, and so are the Tzimisce.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
John Keech wrote:
>
(some stuff elided)
> If you use !Gangrel, you can then
> diablerise and cancel the blood hunt if the votes aren't going your way.
> To get into combat, look no further than Wynn. Fame also goes in this
> for that extra kick.
>
> Any agg damage and Rotschreck when you block their actions is always
> good, and stops people playing tiresome damage prevention or strike:
> Combat ends. Tremere are always good at this, and so are the Tzimisce.
Ah, Rotschreck. I was forgetting about Rotschreck, though it has to be
used on someone else's turn so can only be used in a reaction/intercept-
based deck. That can be a problem if your prey starts refusing to act.
And it can only be used once per turn. On the plus side, you can use it
when another player through ag damage at your prey's vampire (or anyone
else whose vampire you'd like to see in torpor and/or lose pool). I
suppose this all means that it's a good tactic but needs to be grafted
onto a deck that fundamentally does something else, like defending
Smiling Jack.
By the way, I wouldn't care about diablerie. I'm just as happy letting
the bring their vampire out of torpor, whereupon I can begin scheming
to get it back into torpor, retriggering the pool loss, ad naseum.
>
> You could put in a gangrel tactic using Dawn Operation, Drawing out the
> Beast and Form of Mist. You can replace the Form of Mist with Elysium
> Arboretum, but you won't get the actual action (whatever it is) through.
>
wouldnt using form of mist or elysium cancel drawing out the beast?
combat ends, so is there a press step? (not sure if there is a press
step when you play combat ends-can anyone answer this? james?
lasombra?)
johann
Johann wrote:
>
> >
> > You could put in a gangrel tactic using Dawn Operation, Drawing out the
> > Beast and Form of Mist. You can replace the Form of Mist with Elysium
> > Arboretum, but you won't get the actual action (whatever it is) through.
> >
>
> wouldnt using form of mist or elysium cancel drawing out the beast?
Yes. DotB waits until the press step to inflict the damage.
Ending combat before that (FoMist, Elysium, Thunder, etc.) will prevent
the damage from occuring.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
>
> The simplest idea that pops to mind is using it in a powerful combat deck
> (insert whatever deck here :o) using Pulled Fangs with multiple copies of
> Fame. All useful and damaging cards in their own right but together your
> prey could be losing a vamp or two per turn plus 4-9 pool.
>
> That's not very funny...... 4 from Fame/TitR - rescue (Humanitas?) - another
> 4 from 2nd rush and 1 from Fame on preys turn.
>
> Keep it simple. Weenie to mid point POT or something maybe ?
So far with limited testing, Tzimsice agropoke/ Rotschreck / TitR is
working quite well. Some how I need to make some room for Fame ; p
My friends already hate me, I don't blame them.
Pc.
We have been seeing ALOT of this card in play in the local metagame of
late and I have made some interesting observations about it that seem
appropriate to this discussion. My favorite aspect of it is that it
effects everyone at the table, including the methuselah who played it,
unlike Fame which can only effect one targeted vamp.
Consequently, this card had some funny results in one particular game:
a player who had put TitR in play actually ended up ousting himself
with it since his potence weenies kept getting torporized/burned by
his Thau/Cel-combat predator. Obviously a good combat deck should be
dealing the damage and not taking it, but there are always exceptions
and it's something to keep in mind before putting it into play.
Baltimore Purge + TitR also had some interesting effects as well, both
postive and negative depending on how you look at the cost/benefit
ratio, since arguably for the one pool the Purger pays, he can make 4
other players burn one pool. In general however, the card had the
effect of discouraging the Baltimore Purges because of this cost,
though after 1 particular purge, what followed was a couple of
diablerie actions (and subsequent failed blood hunts) which turned the
cost to the victim from merely 1 pool to 3, something that can't be
done with this card in combat.
Also, I 100% agree with your observations, Fred, about the
difficulties inherent in getting rid of it. In all the games I have
seen it, I have never seen someone waste the master phase action (and
the two master cards) to remove it. On the other hand, when compared
to Fame, at least it is removable.
Ped Xing wrote:
> Baltimore Purge + TitR also had some interesting effects as well, both
> postive and negative depending on how you look at the cost/benefit
> ratio, since arguably for the one pool the Purger pays, he can make 4
> other players burn one pool. In general however, the card had the
> effect of discouraging the Baltimore Purges because of this cost,
> though after 1 particular purge, what followed was a couple of
> diablerie actions (and subsequent failed blood hunts) which turned the
> cost to the victim from merely 1 pool to 3, something that can't be
> done with this card in combat.
Thanks for the report. Definitely interesting stuff. One question,
though: I think it's been clarified that diablerie does not trigger
Tension in the Ranks because the vampire burned was not ready, as per
card text. In view of that, I'm curious how the cost to the victim
could be more than one. And how it could possibly be three, in any
event.
> Also, I 100% agree with your observations, Fred, about the
> difficulties inherent in getting rid of it. In all the games I have
> seen it, I have never seen someone waste the master phase action (and
> the two master cards) to remove it. On the other hand, when compared
> to Fame, at least it is removable.
Actually, Fame is removable. It actually happened when I was playing
against a character from one of my bad dreams ;-) in a tournament once.
I had Humanitas and Catacombs on a vampire and had torporized one of his
vampires I'd played Fame on. His response was to diablerize his own
vampire. At +1 stealth, no less. And sadly, his allies had political
control so no blood hunt.
"Sacha" <paul...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:818c06e0.02102...@posting.google.com...
> So far with limited testing, Tzimsice agropoke/ Rotschreck / TitR is
> working quite well. Some how I need to make some room for Fame ; p
>
> My friends already hate me, I don't blame them.
>
> Pc.
Where is this deck P?
I have not seen it so I cannot rain burning goodness down on it yet.
-JTP
> >
> > My friends already hate me, I don't blame them.
> >
> > Pc.
>
> Where is this deck P?
>
> I have not seen it so I cannot rain burning goodness down on it yet.
>
> -JTP
This is a varrient on my regular Tzimisce wall that I play. You saw it
several months ago in a tournement, you were my Preditor, Carmien was
your preditor some Settite dog was his and Ryan was my prey. I killed
Ryan, the squid killed Carmien and the game timed out with all of us
getting an additional 1/2 vic.
That was the game that I came up with like 7 intercept cross table to
try to keep Carmien in the game (only because I love his accent)
unfortunatly he got cooked the next turn, ungratful bastard!
As I recall we were both playing Tzimisce.
I think this time it is even more degenerate, I built it to Ryan and
Matty's scale.
If you make All Your Base Thursday, you as well be able to experience
the Tzmisce/ Tremere class struggle first hand.
Ummm sweet burning goodness.
Lest we forget, the Tzimisce are not constrained to using their agg in
the second round.
Pc.
"Sacha" <paul...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:818c06e0.02102...@posting.google.com...
> This is a varrient on my regular Tzimisce wall that I play. You saw it
> several months ago in a tournement, you were my Preditor, Carmien was
> your preditor some Settite dog was his and Ryan was my prey. I killed
> Ryan, the squid killed Carmien and the game timed out with all of us
> getting an additional 1/2 vic.
>
> That was the game that I came up with like 7 intercept cross table to
> try to keep Carmien in the game (only because I love his accent)
> unfortunatly he got cooked the next turn, ungratful bastard!
>
> As I recall we were both playing Tzimisce.
I wasn't me. I have not played against you since the last storyline
tournament (or shortly thereafter). I have not played Tzims yet until last week.
> I think this time it is even more degenerate, I built it to Ryan and
> Matty's scale.
E Gads! Thats inhumane.
> If you make All Your Base Thursday, you as well be able to experience
> the Tzmisce/ Tremere class struggle first hand.
I will be there, but my Tremere may not. Besides, they're not the suppliers
of burning goodness.
>
> Ummm sweet burning goodness.
>
> Lest we forget, the Tzimisce are not constrained to using their agg in
> the second round.
Neither is protean.
-JTP
> though: I think it's been clarified that diablerie does not trigger
> Tension in the Ranks because the vampire burned was not ready, as per
> card text. In view of that, I'm curious how the cost to the victim
> could be more than one. And how it could possibly be three, in any
You know, I don't think we realized this while we were playing! Thanks
for bringing the relevant card text to my attention!
>
> > Also, I 100% agree with your observations, Fred, about the
> > difficulties inherent in getting rid of it. In all the games I have
> > seen it, I have never seen someone waste the master phase action (and
> > the two master cards) to remove it. On the other hand, when compared
> > to Fame, at least it is removable.
>
> Actually, Fame is removable. It actually happened when I was playing
> against a character from one of my bad dreams ;-) in a tournament once.
> I had Humanitas and Catacombs on a vampire and had torporized one of his
> vampires I'd played Fame on. His response was to diablerize his own
> vampire. At +1 stealth, no less. And sadly, his allies had political
> control so no blood hunt.
Ooh, I have an anecdote about this, too.
I was playing a Hesha / Francois / Pochtli / Arika bloat and steal
deck, with a !Bruhaj predator who had decapitated Pochtli and made
Hesha famous. I had gotten Hesha out and tempted Frederick the Weak
early on. After borrowing Fred, I returned him in torpor, but I kept
piling up the temptation counters just in case.
When Hesha got Famous, I took control of Frederick, drained Hesha to 1
blood via Heidelberg, munched Freddy, burned Hesha, and then popped
out a fresh, new Hesha (I had an info highway too). So getting rid of
the Fame only cost me 1 blood and an action :-)