(LSJ) Final Loosening vs "Steal 2 blood"

Hi, Francois Villon announces his action to steal 2 blood from vampire A who has 2 blood. There is no successful block. vampire B plays Final Loosening [aus]. Obviously, Villon only gains 1 blood. Does A lose 2 blood (one would go to Villon, the other to the blood bank) ? Thanks ~ ~ Final Loosening Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Auspex/Dementation/Fortitude Requires an anarch. [aus] Play when the acting vampire would gain 1 or more blood. The acting vampire and this reacting anarch each gain 1 blood instead. [dem] Gain 4 votes. [for] Only usable when an ally is acting. The action fails and the ally takes 1 damage. Tap this reacting anarch. François Villon Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Toreador Group: 2 Capacity: 10 Discipline: chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Camarilla Prince of Paris: François may steal up to 2 blood from a younger vampire as a +1 stealth (D) action. +1 bleed.

[ quoted text not captured ] Francois would remove 2 blood from the target, gain 1, the player of Final Loosening would gain 1. But IANLSJ...

On Oct 11, 7:52 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > Francois Villon announces his action to steal 2 blood from vampire A > who has 2 blood. > There is no successful block. vampire B plays Final Loosening [aus]. > > Obviously, Villon only gains 1 blood. > Does A lose 2 blood (one would go to Villon, the other to the blood > bank) ? François Villon steals 1 blood from vampire A (move 1 blood from A to FV). Vampire B gains 1 blood from the bank. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/29edab727280d3da [ quoted text not captured ]

On Oct 11, 3:40 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Oct 11, 7:52 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > Francois Villon announces his action to steal 2 blood from vampire A > > who has 2 blood. > > There is no successful block. vampire B plays Final Loosening [aus]. > > > Obviously, Villon only gains 1 blood. > > Does A lose 2 blood (one would go to Villon, the other to the blood > > bank) ? > > François Villon steals 1 blood from vampire A (move 1 blood from A to > FV). > Vampire B gains 1 blood from the bank. > > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/29ed... > Thanks. I wasn't sure how exactly the "reduce" part applied to "steal" effects. This makes things clear.

On Oct 12, 12:40 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Oct 11, 7:52 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > Francois Villon announces his action to steal 2 blood from vampire A > > who has 2 blood. > > There is no successful block. vampire B plays Final Loosening [aus]. > > > Obviously, Villon only gains 1 blood. > > Does A lose 2 blood (one would go to Villon, the other to the blood > > bank) ? > > François Villon steals 1 blood from vampire A (move 1 blood from A to > FV). > Vampire B gains 1 blood from the bank. LSJ, I didn't see in that post a reference to why the target, Vamp X, of Francois' card text would only lose 1 blood to Francois. I understand that Francois can only gain one (Final Loosening) and that the Anarch gains 1 (Final Loosening) but not why Vamp X would lose 1 blood instead of 2. Wouldn't Francois successfully steal 2, end up gaining 1 (FL) and the other "washes off" since Francois can only gain 1 due to FL? > > Final Loosening > > Cardtype: Reaction > > Discipline: Auspex/Dementation/Fortitude > > Requires an anarch. > > [aus] Play when the acting vampire would gain 1 or more blood. The > > acting vampire and this reacting anarch each gain 1 blood instead. > > [dem] Gain 4 votes. > > [for] Only usable when an ally is acting. The action fails and the > > ally takes 1 damage. Tap this reacting anarch. > > - Show quoted text -

On Oct 11, 5:15 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Oct 12, 12:40 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > On Oct 11, 7:52 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > Francois Villon announces his action to steal 2 blood from vampire A > > > who has 2 blood. > > > There is no successful block. vampire B plays Final Loosening [aus]. > > > > Obviously, Villon only gains 1 blood. > > > Does A lose 2 blood (one would go to Villon, the other to the blood > > > bank) ? > > > François Villon steals 1 blood from vampire A (move 1 blood from A to > > FV). > > Vampire B gains 1 blood from the bank. > > LSJ, I didn't see in that post a reference to why the target, Vamp X, > of Francois' card text would only lose 1 blood to Francois. I > understand that Francois can only gain one (Final Loosening) and that > the Anarch gains 1 (Final Loosening) but not why Vamp X would lose 1 > blood instead of 2. Wouldn't Francois successfully steal 2, end up > gaining 1 (FL) and the other "washes off" since Francois can only gain > 1 due to FL? He normally would gain 2 (from vampire A). Final Loosening reduces that to 1 (but still from vampire A). [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - As a follow-up... Can Final Loosening have any effect on Theft of Vitae (or similar such as Kraken's Kiss, etc) where a strike would steal blood?

[ quoted text not captured ] No, it is not a combat card, and so cannot be played during combat (even if a non-combatant plays it) Reference: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/8e9e86d8639c2f83 Cheers. -YY

On Oct 12, 5:37 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > He normally would gain 2 (from vampire A). > > Final Loosening reduces that to 1 (but still from vampire A). I suppose "steal" and "move" have similar behaviour regarding the "reduce" part. Let's consider this example to check that I got it correctly: Vampire A plays Rave, and move 5 blood to Vampire B. Vampire C plays Final Loosening on Vampire B. Consequences: There is only 1 blood that moves from A to B (the other 4 counters remain on A), and C gains 1 blood from the blood bank. Is this correct? ~~ Rave Cardtype: Action +1 stealth action. Move as much blood (or life) and/or equipment from the acting minion to any ready vampires you control.

[ quoted text not captured ] IANLSJ, but since Final Loosening only works when the acting minion gains blood it´s kinda moot. although if rave is substituted whith redistribution then the question is if a vampire gains blood when its moved around and the amount of blood moved declared as the action is declared. cheers Tomas Redistribution Action Discipline: Sanguinus +1 stealth action. [san] This acting vampire gains a blood. Then move any amount of blood and equipment among the Blood Brothers in this circle. [SAN] As above, and untap this acting vampire.

On Oct 13, 9:38 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote: > On 12 Okt, 10:12, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Oct 12, 5:37 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > > > He normally would gain 2 (from vampire A). > > > > Final Loosening reduces that to 1 (but still from vampire A). > > > I suppose "steal" and "move" have similar behaviour regarding the > > "reduce" part. > > > Let's consider this example to check that I got it correctly: > > > Vampire A plays Rave, and move 5 blood to Vampire B. > > Vampire C plays Final Loosening on Vampire B. > > gains blood it´s kinda moot. Good point... re-reading the cardtexts would help. Redistribution does it, which is good. Thanks for correcting that :)