[LSJ] Title, Sect & Advanced/Merged vampires

Greetings. This is my first post, so hopefully it's intelligible... I'm under the impression that a titled vampire that changes Sect loses that title, but if they were to regain their original Sect, the title would return. Is this correct? If so, does this apply to Advanced/Merged vampires too? e.g. if Jeremy MacNeil was to become Sabbat (via Into the Fire, say), become a Cardinal, and then was Merged, do I understand correctly that he'd now be an independant vampire with the title of Baron? If he was then turned back into a Sabbat (via another Into the Fire), would he now become a Cardinal once more? Thanks in advance.

On 18 Aug 2003 22:26:25 -0700, drag0...@yahoo.co.uk (DragonBear) scrawled: >Greetings. This is my first post, so hopefully it's intelligible... > >I'm under the impression that a titled vampire that changes Sect loses >that title, but if they were to regain their original Sect, the title >would return. >Is this correct? sort of. they still have the title while in the wrong sect, it's just totally ignored for game purposes (except title contestion, whereupon they instantly yield the title) see section 10 of the rulebook. It's quite a lot clearer than the old rulebook(s) was aout these things. also, the vtes FAQ (available from www.thelasombra.com) has a section on sects/titles. >If so, does this apply to Advanced/Merged vampires too? yeah. >e.g. if Jeremy MacNeil was to become Sabbat (via Into the Fire, say), >become a Cardinal, and then was Merged, do I understand correctly that >he'd now be an independant vampire with the title of Baron? correct. >If he was then turned back into a Sabbat (via another Into the Fire), >would he now become a Cardinal once more? No. When he became a Baron, he lost, utterly, his cardinal title, because a vampire may only ever have one title. If Jeremy[[]'s (merged) card text was merely an anarch, and not a baron, then when he returned to the sabbat he would regain the use of his cardinal title, as there would have been no other title to displace it. >Thanks in advance. no probs. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

salem wrote: > drag0...@yahoo.co.uk (DragonBear) scrawled: >>I'm under the impression that a titled vampire that changes Sect loses >>that title, but if they were to regain their original Sect, the title >>would return. >>Is this correct? > > sort of. they still have the title while in the wrong sect, it's just > totally ignored for game purposes (except title contestion, whereupon > they instantly yield the title) Right. The vampire "loses the benefit of" the title while he is of the wrong sect/clan for the title. He doesn't lose the title completely (unless it is contested or he gains a new title to replace the old inactive one). >>If so, does this apply to Advanced/Merged vampires too? > yeah. Correct. >>e.g. if Jeremy MacNeil was to become Sabbat (via Into the Fire, say), >>become a Cardinal, and then was Merged, do I understand correctly that >>he'd now be an independant vampire with the title of Baron? > correct. > >>If he was then turned back into a Sabbat (via another Into the Fire), >>would he now become a Cardinal once more? > > No. When he became a Baron, he lost, utterly, his cardinal title, > because a vampire may only ever have one title. > > If Jeremy[[]'s (merged) card text was merely an anarch, and not a > baron, then when he returned to the sabbat he would regain the use of > his cardinal title, as there would have been no other title to > displace it. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3F420F0D...@white-wolf.com>... > salem wrote: > > drag0...@yahoo.co.uk (DragonBear) scrawled: > >>e.g. if Jeremy MacNeil was to become Sabbat (via Into the Fire, say), > >>become a Cardinal, and then was Merged, do I understand correctly that > >>he'd now be an independant vampire with the title of Baron? > > correct. > > > >>If he was then turned back into a Sabbat (via another Into the Fire), > >>would he now become a Cardinal once more? > > > > No. When he became a Baron, he lost, utterly, his cardinal title, > > because a vampire may only ever have one title. > > > > If Jeremy[[]'s (merged) card text was merely an anarch, and not a > > baron, then when he returned to the sabbat he would regain the use of > > his cardinal title, as there would have been no other title to > > displace it. > > Correct. OK, so what about a 'normal' vampire with a title, say Cardinal, who once Merged became independant but had 2 votes? Are the 2 votes as Independant considered a title and therefore they've lost their Cardinal title forever? (I couldn't find anything in thelasombra's FAQ on titles, and section 10 of the rules state "Some Independent vampires may start with votes, as listed on card text. Treat these vampires as if they had titles of their own." I assume this last sentence ruins my hopes of regaining the Cardinal title via Into the Fire alone (i.e. I'd need to pass another Cardinal vote)? (And yes, I am talking about Lambach/Adv-Lambach!) Cheers.

On 19 Aug 2003 22:49:08 -0700, drag0...@yahoo.co.uk (DragonBear) scrawled: >OK, so what about a 'normal' vampire with a title, say Cardinal, who >once Merged became independant but had 2 votes? Are the 2 votes as >Independant considered a title and therefore they've lost their >Cardinal title forever? correct. >(I couldn't find anything in thelasombra's FAQ on titles, and section >10 of the rules state "Some Independent vampires may start with votes, >as listed on card text. Treat these vampires as if they had titles of >their own." I assume this last sentence ruins my hopes of regaining >the Cardinal title via Into the Fire alone (i.e. I'd need to pass >another Cardinal vote)? correct. >(And yes, I am talking about Lambach/Adv-Lambach!) correct. for future reference, the section you're looking for in the FAQ is 3.35. being: 3.35 Which vampires are titled? Which vampires have fewer votes in a Free States Rant vote? Sabbat titles: Bishop Archbishop Priscus Cardinal Camarilla titles: Primogen Prince Justicar Inner Circle Independent titles: 1 vote 2 votes Anarch titles: Baron These are only for cards that come into play with their titles. Any other card that grants votes must explicitly state that it is granting a title for the votes to count as a title. Is a vampire "titled" if he has votes from Legendary Vampire, Bloodbath, Legacy of Pander, Political Struggle, or Firebrand? Not unless they have (or gain) one of the titles listed above. Also see section 10 of the rulebook: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ [ quoted text not captured ]

salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<3776kv0gjq2bnk4f7...@4ax.com>... > On 19 Aug 2003 22:49:08 -0700, drag0...@yahoo.co.uk (DragonBear) > scrawled: > > for future reference, the section you're looking for in the FAQ is > 3.35. > etc... Thanks heaps for your responses. :)