Veil of Darkness
Card type: Event
Gehenna.
Do not replace as long as this card is in play. Each turn, when a
vampire plays his or her first card that turn that requires any
Disciplines, that vampire's controller reveals the top card of his or
her library (before drawing to replace). If it is a master card, the
original card has no effect (no cost is paid), and in addition, if the
original card required Obtenebration, the vampire burns 2 blood.
Hagar Stone
Ability: Black Hand: While Hagar is ready, you have +1 hand size.
While Hagar is untapped, do not replace cards you play on your turn
until Hagar taps or your turn ends.
Hypothetical situation: Hagar Stone is untapped, and Bloodfeud bleeds
cardlessly. My prey attempt to block, and Bloodfeud generates some
stealth with obfuscate. Veil of Darkness is in play, so I check the
next card in line. It is a master card, so Bloodfeud's stealth is
cancelled, but I do not draw it (per Hagar's text). After finishing up
Bloodfeud's action, I decide to have Hagar bleed with Kindred Spirits.
The relevent question: do I replace the cards that were held until
Hagar taps before or after checking for Veil of Darkness? Which
happens first, Hagar tapping to attempt the action, or Hagar playing
(and replacing) Kindred Spirits. If the two effects are simultaneous
(which is how it normally seems) do I get to choose which comes first?
Or does "(before replacing)" on Veil of Darkness include replacements
other than for the card that was just played?
This might appear to be a pointless academic question, but I've
actually built a deck with these two cards in it, and I want to be
sure I don't play it incorrectly.
Thanks.
Jesse
CthuluKitty wrote:
> Veil of Darkness
> Card type: Event
> Gehenna.
>
> Do not replace as long as this card is in play. Each turn, when a
> vampire plays his or her first card that turn that requires any
> Disciplines, that vampire's controller reveals the top card of his or
> her library (before drawing to replace). If it is a master card, the
> original card has no effect (no cost is paid), and in addition, if the
> original card required Obtenebration, the vampire burns 2 blood.
>
>
> Hagar Stone
> Ability: Black Hand: While Hagar is ready, you have +1 hand size.
> While Hagar is untapped, do not replace cards you play on your turn
> until Hagar taps or your turn ends.
>
> Hypothetical situation: Hagar Stone is untapped, and Bloodfeud bleeds
> cardlessly. My prey attempt to block, and Bloodfeud generates some
> stealth with obfuscate. Veil of Darkness is in play, so I check the
> next card in line. It is a master card, so Bloodfeud's stealth is
> cancelled, but I do not draw it (per Hagar's text). After finishing up
> Bloodfeud's action, I decide to have Hagar bleed with Kindred Spirits.
>
> The relevent question: do I replace the cards that were held until
> Hagar taps before or after checking for Veil of Darkness? Which
> happens first, Hagar tapping to attempt the action, or Hagar playing
> (and replacing) Kindred Spirits.
Playing Kindred Spirits technically comes first (which is why Hagar doesn't tap
if it is DI'ed).
> If the two effects are simultaneous
> (which is how it normally seems) do I get to choose which comes first?
> Or does "(before replacing)" on Veil of Darkness include replacements
> other than for the card that was just played?
If the two were simultaneous, the "before replacing" would cover it, yes,
yielding the same result.
LSJ enlightened me:
> > The relevent question: do I replace the cards that were held until
> > Hagar taps before or after checking for Veil of Darkness? Which
> > happens first, Hagar tapping to attempt the action, or Hagar playing
> > (and replacing) Kindred Spirits.
>
> Playing Kindred Spirits technically comes first (which is why Hagar doesn't tap
> if it is DI'ed).
I thought that might have to do with it. It also seemed possible that
the two events were simultaneous and codependent, in which case the
same result would occur with DI.
> > If the two effects are simultaneous
> > (which is how it normally seems) do I get to choose which comes first?
> > Or does "(before replacing)" on Veil of Darkness include replacements
> > other than for the card that was just played?
>
> If the two were simultaneous, the "before replacing" would cover it, yes,
> yielding the same result.
Ok. Thanks.
If I know that the top card in my deck is a master card, Hagar won't
play Kindred Spirits.
On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:29:30 -0700, CthuluKitty <vtana...@riseup.net>
wrote:
> If I know that the top card in my deck is a master card, Hagar won't
> play Kindred Spirits.
If you have other copies in hand, it might be worth it anyway to get the
effect from the second copy.
--
Regards,
Daneel