I thank everyone's reactions (pro and con) to the Red Menace thread,
but I STILL hadn't heard an official ruling on the card text, so I have started
a new thread which (hopefully) our tireless net ret will answer.
I want to know the extent of the effects of Thoughts Betrayed.
First off: can both the acting and blocking minions play Thoughts
Betrayed (since both are played BEFORE combat begins, may these cards
BOTH be played)?
Secondly, what, exactly, is meant by "use"? Below is a repost of some stuff
I stuck in the Red Menace thread:
: The card text says that your opponent may not "use" any cards during combat.
: I can see many possibilities off the top of my head:: "use" really means "play new" and thus I can use flak jackets, guns,
: sport bikes, Elysiums, etc... since they have already been plaued.: it actually means "use any cards" which would mean I couldn't use flak
: jackets OR guns OR Elysium and will sit there taking punishment until
: the other guy sends me torpor or burns me (with the looser aggravated
: damage rules of V:TES).
Which of the above is it? (Or is it some odd combination?)
I also posted a couple of theorized fixes:
: the card is errata'd such that the effects only last one round (still bad
: but not quite as bad).: the card is errata'd such that NEITHER combatant can "use" or "play new"
: or whichever it is.: it's errata'd to be unique so it only has an effect once...: it's errata'd to mean that I can't use a specific TYPE of card, like
: damage prevention, or strikes.
At this point, I really don't care how the ruling goes, I just want to
know what this card means. We have been told time and time again that
Jyhad/V:TES was designed for 0 card limits... but I just don't
see that kind of forethought in this card...
-James
Thoughts Betrayed only stops the minion from playing cards (errata).
Cards already in play can be used normally.
If the active minion uses Thoughts Betrayed, then the blocking minion
is prohibited from doing so.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
On 14 Dec 1995 05:01:23 GMT, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) said:
Tom> Thoughts Betrayed only stops the minion from playing cards (errata).
Tom> Cards already in play can be used normally.
This is ok, makes Mariel and the old Elysium more useful than ever...
Tom> If the active minion uses Thoughts Betrayed, then the blocking minion
Tom> is prohibited from doing so.
Ack! How is this resolved, "whoever slams the card down first" or
what? What happens if the blocking minion uses TB and the acting
minion slams down a TB *after* that, does the blocker's TB cancel out
or what? Don't like this ruling. Don't like the card, for that matter
(altough DS is cool otherwise... well, 'Horrid Reality' looks pretty
unbalancing as well, but that's another can of worms).
//Petri
Before I could do anything to stop it, Petri Wessman wrote:
> Ack! How is this resolved, "whoever slams the card down first" or
> what? What happens if the blocking minion uses TB and the acting
> minion slams down a TB *after* that, does the blocker's TB cancel out
> or what? Don't like this ruling. Don't like the card, for that matter
> (altough DS is cool otherwise... well, 'Horrid Reality' looks pretty
> unbalancing as well, but that's another can of worms).
Generally speaking, the controller of the acting minion always gets the
opportunities to make choices or use card effects first (for instance,
playing maneuver cards or strike cards), and then the controller of the
blocking minion gets to respond. In the example you stated above, the
controller of the acting minion would get to play his card first, no
matter how fast the blocker's controller slapped down the card.
--
"It's at the end of his arm," thought Frito, nervously | Brian
shaking it, "it's got to be a hand." | Wilson
Petri Wessman (Petri....@hut.fi) wrote:
: On 14 Dec 1995 05:01:23 GMT, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) said:: Tom> Thoughts Betrayed only stops the minion from playing cards (errata).
: Tom> Cards already in play can be used normally.: This is ok, makes Mariel and the old Elysium more useful than ever...: Tom> If the active minion uses Thoughts Betrayed, then the blocking minion
: Tom> is prohibited from doing so.: Ack! How is this resolved, "whoever slams the card down first" or: what? What happens if the blocking minion uses TB and the acting
: minion slams down a TB *after* that, does the blocker's TB cancel out
: or what? Don't like this ruling. Don't like the card, for that matter
: (altough DS is cool otherwise... well, 'Horrid Reality' looks pretty
: unbalancing as well, but that's another can of worms).
The acting minion should ALWAYS have the chance to play out-of-combat
cards first...
: //Petri
--
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| "Confuse, annoy, and dee-STROY!!" Call me "Nicole" and I |
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In article <4aob33$2...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>
> Thoughts Betrayed only stops the minion from playing cards (errata).> Cards already in play can be used normally.
>> If the active minion uses Thoughts Betrayed, then the blocking minion> is prohibited from doing so.
>
Whoa! where did you pull that from? This second line needs to be erata
as well. The card says that it is played BEFORE COMBAT, and the card only
prohibits playing cards DURING COMBAT, which means that the blocking minion
should have the opportunity to play 1 card (minimum) before combat begins.
When did that wording change. :) ?
>
> Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
>
Ritaxis
--
Brian Wilson <bwi...@gate.net> wrote:
>> Ack! How is this resolved, "whoever slams the card down first" or
>> what? What happens if the blocking minion uses TB and the acting
>> minion slams down a TB *after* that, does the blocker's TB cancel out
>> or what? Don't like this ruling. Don't like the card, for that matter
>> (altough DS is cool otherwise... well, 'Horrid Reality' looks pretty
>> unbalancing as well, but that's another can of worms).>Generally speaking, the controller of the acting minion always gets the
>opportunities to make choices or use card effects first (for instance,
>playing maneuver cards or strike cards), and then the controller of the
>blocking minion gets to respond. In the example you stated above, the
>controller of the acting minion would get to play his card first, no
>matter how fast the blocker's controller slapped down the card.
Correct. And if the active player says "no, I'm not going to do
anything", and then the blocking player says "well, then I play
Thots Betrayed", it's too late for the active player to do anything.
She had her chance, and passed it up.
[ quoted text not captured ]
<rit...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> If the active minion uses Thoughts Betrayed, then the blocking minion
>> is prohibited from doing so.> Whoa! where did you pull that from? This second line needs to be erata
>as well. The card says that it is played BEFORE COMBAT, and the card only
>prohibits playing cards DURING COMBAT, which means that the blocking minion
>should have the opportunity to play 1 card (minimum) before combat begins.
Thoughts Betrayed says the minion cannot use (read: play) cards "until
after combat", not "during combat."
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <4bdrtg$8...@knot.queensu.ca>, 4k...@qlink.queensu.ca
(Cybernetic Samurai) wrote:
: So, okay, now I have a question... What if you play Thoughts
: Betrayed and then play Obedience? TB says that "opposing minions cannot use
: any cards until after combat" but Obedience says that "INSTEAD OF ENTERING
: COMBAT..."
Tom recently ruled that Obedience will beat out Thoughts Betrayed. In the
ruling (which unfortunately I can't quote from) he stated that TB is
played at the last instant before combat starts, but a combat must be
starting. Obedience is played as a reaction (before the blocking minion
is even tapped for the combat) and stops the combat from ever occuring.
: Does this mean that your opponent can't use cards at all until
: somebody goes into combat with them??? (Heh-heh-heh... This could be a
: great irritant for combat decks, especially if you play sneak and bleed.)
:
:
: Cheers,
: Ken
No, this is not the case. As with all cards that say 'do not replace
until combat is over', the card is replaced as soon as the action that
would have caused the combat is completed. Once the action has been
concluded (successfully or not) and any resulting combat from that action
is done, the Meth would be able to play cards again.
I hope this helps
stephen beaulieu
hi...@mail.utexas.edu
In article <4b25ci$b...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu says...
[ quoted text not captured ]
So, okay, now I have a question... What if you play Thoughts
Betrayed and then play Obedience? TB says that "opposing minions cannot use
any cards until after combat" but Obedience says that "INSTEAD OF ENTERING
COMBAT..." Does this mean that your opponent can't use cards at all until
somebody goes into combat with them??? (Heh-heh-heh... This could be a
great irritant for combat decks, especially if you play sneak and bleed.)
Cheers,
Ken
4k...@qlink.queensu.ca