Wraithes...whats up with that?

Why is it that all mummies return to your library when burnt but not all wraithes are immune to non-aggravated damage like ex-nihilo and the ferryman are? Seems to imply to me that wraithes or the state of wraithness are ethereal and thus immune to non-agg. Was this just a balance decision or something else? T

Talo...@hotmail.com wrote: > > Why is it that all mummies return to your library when burnt but not > all wraithes are immune to non-aggravated damage like ex-nihilo and > the ferryman are? > > Seems to imply to me that wraithes or the state of wraithness are > ethereal and thus immune to non-agg. The exceptions should help imply otherwise. > Was this just a balance decision or something else? Balance is tantamount, of course. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[ quoted text not captured ] It probably was just a balance decision (making *all* the wraiths immune to non-agg would make most wraiths too powerful). If you thought Ambrosius with a Talbot's was bad, what if Brigitte, Felix, and even the Puppeteer could do the same thing? Any deck without agg would be pretty much screwed. And you have a bunch of blockers who can dish out damage and take none in return. In addition, it could be circumstantial that all mummies return to your library. Why do all mummies have 3 life? Why do all werewolves have 3 life? Why do all mages have 0 strength and a ranged attack? Through comparisons and analysis, you're trying to draw conclusions and connections that aren't necessarily there. Why do the Renegade Garou and Black Spiral Buddy "regenerate" while the Werewolf Pack doesn't? Or "Why is it that all mummies return to your library when burnt but not all mages have manuevers like the Outcast Mage, Thadius Zho, and Talaq the Immortal?" In addition, I'm sure it's hypothetically possible that there might be a new Mummy card that *doesn't* return to your library when built... >Seems to imply to me that wraithes or the state of wraithness are >ethereal and thus immune to non-agg. In addition, let me emphasize that I'm no Wraith expert. Maybe there's an in-game, logical explanation as to why some types of wraiths are immune while other types aren't. Any wraith experts out there? Halcyan 2

In message <20010921072221...@mb-fo.aol.com>, Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> writes > Or "Why is it that all mummies >return to your library when burnt but not all mages have manuevers like the >Outcast Mage, Thadius Zho, and Talaq the Immortal?" I was always perplexed about why Mehemet wasn't give a maneuver, however. The Ahl-i-Batin have the sphere of Correspondence at their disposal which is *the* discipline for quick movement and teleportation type effects. >>Seems to imply to me that wraithes or the state of wraithness are >>ethereal and thus immune to non-agg. > >In addition, let me emphasize that I'm no Wraith expert. Maybe there's an >in-game, logical explanation as to why some types of wraiths are immune while >other types aren't. Any wraith experts out there? Thinking randomly and tangentially, I'd suggest: - the wraith was, in general, simply closer to Oblivion - the wraith was tied far more tightly to a Passion or Fetter - the "destruction" triggered a Harrowing - a final complete loss of Corpus, even if they'd been surviving Harrowings -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Close your eyes so you don't feel them EBD690ECD7A1F They don't need to see you cry B457CA213D7E6 I can't promise I will heal you, but if you want to I will try 68C3695D623D5D

[ quoted text not captured ] Funny, I have recently been reading up on Wraith: The Oblivion and Mummy: The Ressurection (both of which you should buy, and no, I am not affiliated with White Wolf ;) ). Possible Wraith spoiling, if you haven't read Ends of Empire. Although Ferrymen are Wraiths, they have a number of distinct advantages over a normal Wraith, maybe the most important one being the lack of a Shadow. When become a ferryman, they undergo a ritual which removes the Shadow. It does have the nasty side effect of creating a separate creature of immense power (essentially the shadow comes alive as a separate creature equal in power to the Ferryman). This creature takes off to create havoc elsewhere. The Ferryman doesn't have to struggle with the Shadow on a day to day, and I also believe they don't undergo Harrowings in the same way other Wraiths do. Plus, to even be considered for a Ferryman, you have to be absurdley powerful in the Arcanoi (the Wraithly disciplines). Perhaps this is why Ambrosius has the non-agg damage benefit... to represent just how damn tough Ferryman are. There may be other reasons in the Wraithly world that I am not thinking of either. There are a whole bunch of additional benefits for Ferryman, detailed in Ends of the Empire. They also have some short comings, but they are few. As for the mummies, they are pretty much indestructable (Bane mummy and otherwise). They mention that there are a few ways for a Mummy to be destroyed forever (they particularly mention some Cathayan powers which will do so). But Mummy's all seem to return back from the Underworld, without exception. In short, I think the 'shuffling back into the deck' ability all the mummies have is because ALL mummies return. The other allies have differences to reflect their unique abilities. Hell, even the mummies have unique powers. Not all of them have Amam's diablerie capability, for example. It's probably just to make the game interesting too. How boring would it be if every mage had a maneuver, did 2R, bled at +1? Why bother creating new allies?

On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:23:42 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >> >>In addition, let me emphasize that I'm no Wraith expert. Maybe there's an >>in-game, logical explanation as to why some types of wraiths are immune while >>other types aren't. Any wraith experts out there? > > >Thinking randomly and tangentially, I'd suggest: > >- the wraith was, in general, simply closer to Oblivion >- the wraith was tied far more tightly to a Passion or Fetter >- the "destruction" triggered a Harrowing >- a final complete loss of Corpus, even if they'd been surviving > Harrowings > So are normal wraithes subject to normal damaging effects in the RPG? Seems odd to me if that is the case. T

>So are normal wraithes subject to normal damaging effects in the RPG? >Seems odd to me if that is the case. Well it also seems odd that a Werewolf Pack is unable to "regenerate" normal (or aggravated) damage as well. Halcyan 2

In message <3bab8717.127225374@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes >So are normal wraithes subject to normal damaging effects in the RPG? >Seems odd to me if that is the case. Yes and no. Any physical attack upon them will result in a loss of a health level. However, that's one health level (temporary Corpus) regardless of it being a punch or a small truck running into them, or whatever. They then go incorporeal for a short period of time. Complete loss of temporary Corpus can trigger a Harrowing. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2001 22:09:26 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >In message <3bab8717.127225374@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes >>So are normal wraithes subject to normal damaging effects in the RPG? >>Seems odd to me if that is the case. > >Yes and no. Any physical attack upon them will result in a loss of a >health level. However, that's one health level (temporary Corpus) >regardless of it being a punch or a small truck running into them, or >whatever. They then go incorporeal for a short period of time. > >Complete loss of temporary Corpus can trigger a Harrowing. > A what? So why dont they just go incorporeal in the first place? T

In message <3bad35de.237520934@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes >>Yes and no. Any physical attack upon them will result in a loss of a >>health level. However, that's one health level (temporary Corpus) >>regardless of it being a punch or a small truck running into them, or >>whatever. They then go incorporeal for a short period of time. >> >>Complete loss of temporary Corpus can trigger a Harrowing. >> > >A what? "A Harrowing is a nightmare ride through the Tempest, a passion play or psycho-drama starring the wraith and directed by the wraith's Shadow with a supporting cast of Spectres. Harrowings are designed to torture a wraith, empower her Shadow and force her into making mistakes which may rip away her Passions, Fetters or her very essence and send her screaming to Oblivion. To some extent, the Harrowing is like a game, a challenge to the wraith to choose the right course of action which will allow her to escape from the nightmare. Naturally, the Shadow tries either to stack the cards so that the wraith chooses incorrectly, or to make all choices seem so ill that the wraith cannot decide among them and consequently does nothing. In either case, the Shadow 'wins' and takes as its prize some part of the wraith's Passions or Fetters. This weakens them and brings them closer to the nothingness of Oblivion - or drags the wraith down into the Void. If the wraith triumphs, she breaks free of the Harrowing and retains her Fetters and Passions. Though she may be unscathed, she is usually not unchanged." Wraith: The Oblivion, 2nd edition, page 183. >So why dont they just go incorporeal in the first place? Doesn't work like that. A wraith in the skin-lands is corporeal until hit. (At which point they go incorporeal for several turns, based on their stamina.) There's probably an Arcanoi power that allows it too, though a brief scan doesn't show any up in the basic book. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D When all the world seemed to sleep, why, why did you go? EBD690ECD7A1F Was it me? Was it you? B457CA213D7E6 Questions in a world of blue. 68C3695D623D5D

On Sun, 23 Sep 2001 02:48:05 +0100, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > >Wraith: The Oblivion, 2nd edition, page 183. > >>So why dont they just go incorporeal in the first place? > >Doesn't work like that. A wraith in the skin-lands is corporeal until >hit. (At which point they go incorporeal for several turns, based on >their stamina.) > >There's probably an Arcanoi power that allows it too, though a brief >scan doesn't show any up in the basic book. > Interesting. Thanks James, I dont have anything past VTM and a little rage and mage myself. I do wonder where ExNihilo comes from then. Just poetic liscence then perhaps. T

In message <3bb015f1.35120306@news>, Talo...@hotmail.com writes >I do wonder where ExNihilo comes from then. Just poetic liscence then >perhaps. The Ash Path **** Ex Nihilo Ex Nihilo allows a necromancer to enter the Underworld physically. While in the lands of the dead, the vampire is essentially an extra- solid ghost. He maintains his normal number of health levels, but can be hurt only by things that inflict aggravated damage on ghosts (weapons forged from souls, certain ghostly powers etc.) A vampire physically in the Underworld can pass through solid objects (at the cost of one health level) and remain "incorporeal" thus for a number of turns equal to his Stamina rating. On the other hand, vampires present in the Underworld are subject to all of the Underworld's perils, including ultimate destruction. A vampire killed in the Deadlands is gone forever, beyond even the reach of other necromancers. - Vampire: The Masquerade, 3rd edition, pp. 164-5 The card does quite a good job of mimicking such, whilst still leaving a useful card at the end of it. [ quoted text not captured ]