LSJ: control apon ousting

Question re; 1.3. The Golden Rule of Card Ownership Your cards are never transferred to another player permanently as a result of card play. At the end of the game, the cards you began the game with are returned to you. If you are ousted, all the cards you control are burned. Any of your opponents' cards you may control are placed in their respective owners' ash heaps (see Important Terms, sec. 1.1). Any of your cards that other players control remain until the controlling players are ousted. Does this mean that mind raped, marionetted, etc. minions that I control when the owning player is ousted remain under my control? Or does the 'return to owner's control at X' effect still kick in, rendering them inert and unusuable? Or do they simply return to their owner and thus disapear at the end of the effect? T

On 24 Jun 2003 13:56:40 -0700, talo...@hotmail.com (Talonz) wrote: >Question re; >1.3. The Golden Rule of Card Ownership >Does this mean that mind raped, marionetted, etc. minions that I >control when the owning player is ousted remain under my control? No. If the end of control effect triggers on the turn of a player still in the game, the control will end at that time and the minion will be burned. If control of the card is supposed to end on the turn of the player that is ousted, ie a Mind Rape that has tapped the vampire but the vampire has not yet been taken, that card will stay in play until the minion it is on leaves the game. See the new card text of the Sabbat War Mind Rape, then follow this scenario: I Mind Rape a younger vampire of my predator. I am ousted before it comes to be my turn again. The vampire does not untap as normal for the rest of the game, because the Mind Rape card is never burned. A petty revenge, but revenge none the less. (Its a minion card on a minion, therefore it is controlled by the controller of the minion as its card text does not explicitly state that the player of the card retains control.) >Or does the 'return to owner's control at X' effect still kick in, >rendering them inert and unusuable? They burn. >Or do they simply return to their >owner and thus disapear at the end of the effect? This one. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

TheLa...@hotmail.com writes: >I Mind Rape a younger vampire of my predator. >I am ousted before it comes to be my turn again. >The vampire does not untap as normal for the rest >of the game, because >the Mind Rape card is never burned. I know that's the rule, but that particular effect is definitely wrong. A card that burns on "your" next <whatever> should also still be controlled by you, for just that reason. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) "It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson

In article <20030624215059...@mb-m02.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) wrote: >TheLa...@hotmail.com writes: > >>I Mind Rape a younger vampire of my predator. >>I am ousted before it comes to be my turn again. >>The vampire does not untap as normal for the rest >of the game, because >>the Mind Rape card is never burned. > >I know that's the rule, but that particular effect >is definitely wrong. A card that burns on "your" >next <whatever> should also still be controlled >by you, for just that reason. normally, those cards mention that "you still control this card". Mind Rape doesn't, however, because it doesn't say "your next <whatever>"; it says "the next <whatever> of the acting vampire's controller". this means that if Vamp A, not controlled by me, Mind Rapes Vamp B, and i take control of A before the next turn of its controller (via Hostile Takeover, etc.), then I get to burn the Mind Rape and take control of B. -- charles lechasseur - da...@novideospamtron.ca

bunsen...@yahoo.com (Charles Lechasseur) wrote in message news:<bunsenburner-2...@modemcable138.167-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca>... > In article <20030624215059...@mb-m02.aol.com>, > curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) wrote: > > >TheLa...@hotmail.com writes: > > > >>I Mind Rape a younger vampire of my predator. > >>I am ousted before it comes to be my turn again. > >>The vampire does not untap as normal for the rest >of the game, because > >>the Mind Rape card is never burned. > > >the controler of the vampire who played the mindrape is the controler of the mindrape. so the mindrape is burned when the controler is ousted. simple reason: how can you ever take control of a vamp by a mindrape if you dont control the card. but I do get a quetion for [LSJ] on the ousting. I played a brinkman ship and it passed. if I get ousted, does the effect last until the end of game? Do I control vote cards? same question for: rumors of gehenna and year of fortune?

In article <fd5a4c98.03062...@posting.google.com>, oortj...@hotmail.com (Oortje4ever) wrote: >the controler of the vampire who played the mindrape is the controler >of the mindrape. so the mindrape is burned when the controler is >ousted. >simple reason: how can you ever take control of a vamp by a mindrape >if you dont control the card. no, Mind Rape lacks card text to say that the controller of the vampire who played the Mind Rape controls the Mind Rape itself. so effectively, the target of Mind Rape controls the card (like all minion cards, they are controller by the controller of the minion they are on, by default.) Mind Rape's card text says that "During the acting vampire's controller's next minion phase, he or she must burn this card to untap the vampire and take control of the vampire until the end of his or her turn." So even though the acting vampire's controller doesn't control the Mind Rape, it is he or she that must burn it to take control of the Mind Rape's target. Also, why would you need to control the Mind Rape to take control of its target? Nothing in the rules prohibits you from gaining control of a card without you controlling the effect that gives you control. See Parmenides, for example. or Millicent Smith. [ quoted text not captured ]

Oortje4ever wrote: > but I do get a quetion for [LSJ] on the ousting. > I played a brinkman ship and it passed. if I get ousted, does the > effect last until the end of game? Do I control vote cards? > same question for: rumors of gehenna and year of fortune? Control of master cards is covered in 1.6.2 Control of minion cards is covered in 1.6.3 -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/