What to do about imbueds' table hate?

Everyone that have played imbued knows what i mean, so what did you do to avoid crosstables rushes and/or bleeds? what about crosstable ancient influence? I mean, it's ok to play with that in a tournament, but in casual play it just pisses the player without a good reason. Please, share your experiences.

Omael ha escrito: [ quoted text not captured ] I have an Imbued deck that I only got the chance to play once in like...20 tables? Everytime I ask if it`s ok that I play with it, I get boos and threaths in response. I'm about to store all the cards away, since it`s useless there. But yeah, most imbued decks use gehenna cards, gehenna cards bring table hate. No way to avoid that, nobody packs gehenna defense (black hand ritual and emergency preparations), so the only way to remove it is to oust you, and proceed "normal" play. IMHO, NoR was a BAD expansion.

> But yeah, most imbued decks use gehenna cards, gehenna cards bring > table hate. No way to avoid that, nobody packs gehenna defense (black > hand ritual and emergency preparations), so the only way to remove it > is to oust you, and proceed "normal" play. > If that's the problem, you could stick with The Unmasking and Edge Explosion, and maybe Thirst/Nightmares Beyond Nightmares for weenie hosing. Reasonable players shouldn't have any in-game reason to screw you over if you stick to positive cards. Kevin Walsh

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm currently playing 1 slow withering (table hate) 1 the unmasking (important) 1 edge explosion (important) 1 thirst (antiweenie) 1 restricted vitae (almost noone cares) 1 torpid blood (noone that i remember have cared about this one) --6 So maybe i should take out slow withering, but it's really important for my deck with lock, if i'm still getting the same answer from the players i'll only use 5 gehennas.

Omael wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] I stopped playing it. The table would gang up against me and the game would usually time out (we play two hour time limit in social games). They weren't playing to win, they were ganging up against me to make sure i didn't play it again. Chris.

Omael <omael....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1149716782.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I had the experience of first being the guy who was complaining about imbued when they were new and I didn't know any of the rules or the new cards or types of cards. It just seemed like the imbued player was just piling up cards and I had no idea what he was doing without doing a lot of reading and remembering. Then I actually bought most of his imbued cards off him cause he wasn't that interested in them any more and then I had the reverse experience of being the guy who was enjoying playing his deck but everyone was yawning and barely interested in what I was doing. I realized a few things would help: 1. Introduce the set to new people with a brief introduction, explaining the rules simply in your own words -- don't just give them the rules cards. For instance, a new person's mind might boggle when he sees how the conviction cards pile up on your minions. Just explain that there's only three kinds of conviction cards, and show them to him ahead of time. 2. Once you've gotten the hang of playing with them, try to make sure your deck is focused on going forward, and not just on piling up a bunch of cards that you'll never use. Part of the problem too, is that a lot of imbued cards have multiple uses, which means that even after reading all your cards, opponents may still not know what to expect, or remember what everything does. Maybe instead of starting out with an all-imbued deck against new players, make a deck that only use a little of the new stuff. 3. The new mechanics might make your turn drag if you don't know what you are doing. Take your turns quickly as you are more accustomed to the cards. Have your conviction cards ready to play at the beginning of your turn, and know which ones you are going to play. I made the mistake of putting all my discards in a plastic card box and then I was digging through it every turn which was, I'm sure, very annoying. 4. If you use cards that hurt everyone on the table, be they Smiling Jack or Gehenna cards you have to expect some table hate, and you probably deserve some of it. If people can play their deck a lot easier if you are simply gone, then they may well enjoy watching you be ousted. How about using some cards that can help out your cross-table allies (like Owain Evans for example) so that they actually want you to stay in the game? 5. Make sure you know all the rules, because you may be the only one paying attention to your deck. Particularly remember to burn convictions when necessary as a cost -- I found the indication to do that on some cards to not be as clear as it could be. Play everything the right way and soon everyone will know what's going to happen. After a few games with the imbued, hopefully the other players will realize that they don't always have to be annoying (any more than any other deck). Remember that people fear most what they don't understand! 6. I do kind of appreciate how the natural instinct of vampire players is to destroy the hunters. If all else fails, just enjoy being a pariah and pack your deck with plenty of stuff to make people regret they messed with you! Any deck that is uberpowerful will get crosstable hate and so you have to be able to deal with it. Hope it helps. Thanks for the oportunity to write down some ideas that have been on my mind. Neil

Omael wrote: > Everyone that have played imbued knows what i mean, so what did you do > to avoid crosstables rushes and/or bleeds? what about crosstable > ancient influence? > I mean, it's ok to play with that in a tournament, but in casual play > it just pisses the player without a good reason. See, I think currently everyone is still traumatized by the standard "sucks to be a vampire" decks that most Imbued decks tend to be (ya know, all the horrible events, Millicent Smith, whatever)--these decks tend to not only be wildly disruptive to everyone, but they also slow the game down a billion times, as everyone needs to read a hundred cards on the table every time they take an action. This sort of thing makes everyone mad, and results in the whole table conspring to kill the Imbued deck just to get them off the table. The long term solution? Everyone needs to develop non disruptive Imbued deck strategies. Ya know, ones that don't revolve around horrible Gehenna events and the master cards that make everyone hate you. Eventually, when people have Imbued technology that doesn't result in everyone hating them, people will stop hating them. -Peter

"Omael" <omael....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1149716782.5...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Everyone that have played imbued knows what i mean, so what did you do > to avoid crosstables rushes and/or bleeds? what about crosstable > ancient influence? > I mean, it's ok to play with that in a tournament, but in casual play > it just pisses the player without a good reason. Table hate is a legitimate response to a real metagame problem Imbued decks cause for current non-Imbued archetypes. In some respects, its an unfortunate game design problem to make the entire metagame shift so abruptly to a new expansion. But if a metagame shift will fix the problem, eventually peoples' decks will change and the problem will go away on its own. I say "if" because I suspect that if shifting how non-Imbued decks to cope with Imbued decks weakens the former too much when not playing Imbued decks, this will cause a quirky metagame issue that will just result in a greater influence of luck on game outcomes (e.g. who has an Imbued as his prey, meaning that he's either screwed if he doesn't get effective help from table hate or charmed if he does because he gets an easy victory point). If the metagame can't shift enough, there's always hope that the designers will eventually bridge the gap by printing more convenient, usable anti-Imbued cards similar to Break the Code. We'll see... Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] Thanks, Neil, for this truly insightful reply :) Your guidelines are really interesting, i may consider all of them. You forget to mention that "determine", is really tricky as it will redirect the bleed to your predator's predator aka "your cross table ally", i only play with 3 in my deck, and mainly use them to cancel my predators referendums, but i'm sure you have more experience. I just wanted to comment 2 things: 1. What are the horrible gehenna cards? i mean there should be a way to be able to play your edge explosion, without needing to pack 3 fort. libraries, 3 unmasking, 3 edge explosions. I think that maybe thirst is also ok because it will only screw weenies, restricted vitae isnt really that bad, i like the torpid blood one because it helps my combat meta too, but what do you usually run? 2. With an avenger deck with 20 cleaves and a couple of fame it would be too easy to go forward, for anyone that want to try, woodstake+wooden staff, or just convictions and a way to avoid s:ce, if anyone havetried a deck like this please tell me how it went.

On Wed, 7 Jun 2006, Omael wrote: > I'm currently playing > > 1 slow withering (table hate) > 1 the unmasking (important) > 1 edge explosion (important) > 1 thirst (antiweenie) > 1 restricted vitae (almost noone cares) > 1 torpid blood (noone that i remember have cared about this one) > --6 > > So maybe i should take out slow withering, but it's really important > for my deck with lock, if i'm still getting the same answer from the > players i'll only use 5 gehennas. Don't do that. Just hang onto the Slow Withering until it's a good time to play it. Most of the time it'll count against your hand size while in play, so there's not much disadvantage to not playing it for a while. Let the game develop without it and play it when you really need it, like after a couple people are ousted and your deck really needs to perform. Or park it in a Storage Annex for later use, if holding it doesn't appeal to you. Matt Morgan

[ quoted text not captured ] Looks like you've got a very strange players :) Our players really like to see new things and new mechanics, though the majority isn't ready to USE them. Talking about the table hate, just ask yourself: is it well-deserved or not? If your deck actively messes with everyone's game, it may be. Good decks kill their preys, slow their predators and HELP their allies. You can do these things even with Imbued. For instance, your Anna "Dictatrix11" Suljic can provide 2 blood to an ally's vampire - why not include her or at least a bunch of Rejuvenates if you plan to drain the vampires' blood with Gehenna cards? Ancient Influence usually isn't a "crosstable hate" - somebody wants to get pool with it. Again, you can prepare to this threat - personally I prefer adding one support vampire to an Imbued deck (see my !Malk newsletters for details). Add Marie Faucigny - and voila! Ancient Influence will give you 2 pool instead of taking 5 away. Finally, you should know your cards very well and be able to explain their mechanics to any player. Imbued aren't overpowered, and crosstable actions against them are just silly - every sentient player should understand this if you care to explain. If all else fails, you can find a friend willing to play Imbued, build two Imbued decks to avoid contest, and play "table hate" yourself :) This should FORCE your players to get accustomed to the Imbued and understand their mechanics, and you will be able to play normally afterwards. Good luck! Yours, Ector

Omael <omael....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1149732492.7...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > Thanks, Neil, for this truly insightful reply :) > Your guidelines are really interesting, i may consider all of them. > You forget to mention that "determine", is really tricky as it will > redirect the bleed to your predator's predator aka "your cross table > ally", i only play with 3 in my deck, and mainly use them to cancel my > predators referendums, but i'm sure you have more experience. Actually I've only built one so-so imbued deck and played it a couple of times. But it was the general reaction that I noticed around imbued that made me think of how I could approach them differently. > I just wanted to comment 2 things: > 1. What are the horrible gehenna cards? i mean there should be a way to > be able to play your edge explosion, without needing to pack 3 fort. > libraries, 3 unmasking, 3 edge explosions. I think that maybe thirst is > also ok because it will only screw weenies, restricted vitae isnt > really that bad, i like the torpid blood one because it helps my combat > meta too, but what do you usually run? Yeah, I don't even have an edge explosion yet, so I dunno. Another thing about Gehenna cards -- remember that several Gehenna cards get scarier as there are more Gehenna cards in play, and that when you see someone putting a lot of events on the table it's easy to worry that the next one is really going to suck for you -- be it Fall of the Camarilla or Return to Founder. So sometimes it might seem worthwhile to get rid of the Gehenna card player before things get really bad! Neil

[ quoted text not captured ] Am I going to have to come up there and teach them how to play again? ;) But seriously, when was the qualifier(s?) again? -- salem http://users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/vtes/ (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

Omael wrote: > Please, share your experiences. I've seen three imbued decks in casual play, each did OK and didn't generate any particular table hate or random cross table actions. One was an equipment tool-box deck using Alan Sovereign advanced and investments with a few Gehenna events. One was an all imbued toolbox generally trying to bleed for 2 at 1 stealth with a couple of minions a round, just with the unmasking for intercept. One was an imbued - setite deck using cryptic mission and temptation with no events. Our local meta is quite combat focused so generally imbued spend a lot of time incapacitated trying to get three convictions on them. They're quite persistent and can put a bit of pressure on each turn but it's not the end of the world if one sits to your right.

[ quoted text not captured ] There are two possibilities. 1st. Your deck is really very strong, so ganging on you is the only way to stop you. Then the reaction is not different to the reaction to some Weenie or Arika decks. The only thing you can do, make a deck that is not so obviously strong. Using fewer Gehenna events for example. 2nd. The crosstable play against your deck is bad play. People dont like your deck, and by not playing to win play against you. That really is a problem with playing style. On the long run, it would be necessary to teach your players how to play to win. What can you do now? Show the players, that it is bad to play crosstable without a reason. If they all try to kill you, sell your soul. Make a table splitting deal with your prey to get one VP. If you are successful, tell all that you needed to make such a dirty deal, because it was the only thing you could do, after they all attacked you.

pd...@lightlink.com wrote: > The long term solution? Everyone needs to develop non disruptive Imbued > deck strategies. Ya know, ones that don't revolve around horrible > Gehenna events and the master cards that make everyone hate you. > Eventually, when people have Imbued technology that doesn't result in > everyone hating them, people will stop hating them. My current Imbued deck has only one event: Blood Cult Awareness Network, and that effect has never come to bear. In two runs (both at four-player tables), it achieved 2 GWs and 7VPs (although the 3VP game was tediously close to being a 1VP game instead). The easiest way to avoid table hate is to avoid giving the table a reason to hate you.

LSJ wrote: > The easiest way to avoid table hate is to avoid giving the table a > reason to hate you. Precisely. My current Imbued deck is totally hateable. It plays with all the horrible Gehenna events. And Millicent Smith. And all that other annoying as hell crap. And everyone hates it. So I swore I'd take it apart and make something new, so everyone would stop hating me :-) The current state of affairs has, for the most part, the Imbued being used for tier one technology--the "sucks to be a vampire" deck, as that is the most obvious strategy to use the Imbued in. Which is good for the Imbued, but bad for everyone else, so they tend to get whacked cross table just so they can be ousted at which point everyone else gets to play a normal game (kind of similar to Nergal, the "Let's all kill Nergal, and then play a regular game of VTES..." factor). When everyone figures out tier two+ technology (i.e. Imbued decks that aren't likely to generate unreasonable table hate), this will all go away I'm sure, as there will no longer be incentive to cross table oust them (currently, there is often very strong incentive to cross table oust the Imbued--the want to be able to play a card without having to read 5 events and to 3 random things just to play it). -Peter

Neil wrote: > 1. Introduce the set to new people with a brief introduction, explaining the > rules simply in your own words -- don't just give them the rules cards. For > instance, a new person's mind might boggle when he sees how the conviction > cards pile up on your minions. Just explain that there's only three kinds of > conviction cards, and show them to him ahead of time. > > 2. Once you've gotten the hang of playing with them, try to make sure your > deck is focused on going forward, and not just on piling up a bunch of cards > that you'll never use. Part of the problem too, is that a lot of imbued > cards have multiple uses, which means that even after reading all your > cards, opponents may still not know what to expect, or remember what > everything does. Maybe instead of starting out with an all-imbued deck > against new players, make a deck that only use a little of the new stuff. These problems are huge in our playgroup. One problem besides the sheer number of cards stacked on the minions (like 5 imbued all with 8+ cards on them...) and the numerous and complicated effects of some others is that the virtue icons are really difficult to differentiate. Even as the imbued player I sometimes have problems getting them right. Was there a problem doing them white on black instead the other way around? By the way another question. When will the online rulebook be updated with the NoR rules?

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, LSJ wrote: > My current Imbued deck has only one event: Blood Cult Awareness > Network, and that effect has never come to bear. Is that an Imbued-only deck? I can't see why you wouldn't include The Unmasking and Edge Explosion at least. I mean, unless you never want to block anything with Imbued and don't use Convictions or Powers, I guess. > In two runs (both at four-player tables), it achieved 2 GWs and 7VPs > (although the 3VP game was tediously close to being a 1VP game > instead). You find it tedious when you turn a 1 VP game into a 3 VP game? :) > The easiest way to avoid table hate is to avoid giving the table a > reason to hate you. Or tell lots of good jokes. Matt Morgan

Matthew T. Morgan wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, LSJ wrote: > > > My current Imbued deck has only one event: Blood Cult Awareness > > Network, and that effect has never come to bear. > > Is that an Imbued-only deck? Yes. > I can't see why you wouldn't include The > Unmasking and Edge Explosion at least. I mean, unless you never want to > block anything with Imbued and don't use Convictions or Powers, I guess. It's a Judgment deck, with a handful of cards that require virtues other than Judgement. No reason to enable other Gehenna events with EE. Unmasking is a reasonable addition.

<pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:1149774230.9...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > The current state of affairs has, for the most part, the Imbued being > used for tier one technology--the "sucks to be a vampire" deck, as that > is the most obvious strategy to use the Imbued in. Which is good for > the Imbued, but bad for everyone else, so they tend to get whacked > cross table just so they can be ousted at which point everyone else > gets to play a normal game (kind of similar to Nergal, the "Let's all > kill Nergal, and then play a regular game of VTES..." factor). > > When everyone figures out tier two+ technology (i.e. Imbued decks that > aren't likely to generate unreasonable table hate), this will all go > away I'm sure, Eh? Don't be so sure. "Tier one" technology, as you call it, seems to have occurred to a lot of players in a lot of places simultaneously. (Well, some of it is technology sharing on forums like this, no doubt. But still...) To me, that screams, "THIS AIN'T GOING AWAY SOON!!!" I do agree with LSJ's statement about table hate, though. Whether it's worth preventing table hate given the advantages of the anti- vampire events is an open question. But yea, if you use things that cause it, you will reap what you sow. Fred

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, LSJ wrote: >> I can't see why you wouldn't include The >> Unmasking and Edge Explosion at least. I mean, unless you never want to >> block anything with Imbued and don't use Convictions or Powers, I guess. > > It's a Judgment deck, with a handful of cards that require virtues > other than Judgement. > No reason to enable other Gehenna events with EE. Being able to put Powers on Imbued who don't have the correct virtue and gaining a Conviction after a successful action that may have cost one or more Convictions seems worthwhile to me, even if someone else gets to play his - what, Fall of the Sabbat or something? Anyway, to each his own. > Unmasking is a reasonable addition. Yeah, I've found it to draw some hate at times but it's definately worthwhile if you want to block vampires. What's interesting to me is that your deck is 2 for 2, mine is about 6 for 7 games. I've heard other players report very good win ratios for their Imbued decks. If this trend continues, even when faced with decks that don't overload on the harmful events and vampire-wrecking masters, some players may conclude that the only way to have a shot at winning the table is to take out the Imbued deck first. Let's refer to this phenominon as the "Nergalization" of Imbued decks. I think it's a slightly different issue than the sorts of decks that gain table hate by making it impossible for others to play their decks. Matt Morgan

Fred Scott wrote: > Eh? Don't be so sure. Well, ok, that was an overstatement. There will probably always be someone playing "sucks to be a vampire" decks, but I figure when enough people play diferent types of Imbued decks (i.e. "teir 2 technology"), the automatic "Hey! There is an Imbued deck! Let's get him!", which I think was what the original poster was talking about. > "Tier one" technology, as you call it, seems to have occurred to a lot of players in a lot > of places simultaneously. Sure. 'Cause it is the most obvious starting point for an Imbued deck. > (Well, some of it is technology sharing on forums like this, no doubt. > But still...) To me, that screams, "THIS AIN'T GOING AWAY SOON!!!" I think I meant "the automatic table hate" will go away, more than the decks will go away soon, when I think about it. > I do agree with LSJ's statement about table hate, though. Whether > it's worth preventing table hate given the advantages of the anti- > vampire events is an open question. But yea, if you use things that > cause it, you will reap what you sow. Yep. Again, though, I think the unified table hate results more out of deep annoyance than out of fear of them winning. -Peter

Matthew T. Morgan wrote: > Let's refer to this phenominon as the "Nergalization" of Imbued decks. Second! I'm a big fan of useful made up terms! Go Nergalization! -Peter

Matthew T. Morgan wrote: > Being able to put Powers on Imbued who don't have the correct virtue and > gaining a Conviction after a successful action that may have cost one or > more Convictions seems worthwhile to me, even if someone else gets to play > his - what, Fall of the Sabbat or something? Anyway, to each his own. > In my one and only game with my current deck, I found the Conviction regain to be really important, but I also benefitted significantly from the power regain, since I'm running a wallish Defense/Judgement deck with some Inspire, Surge, Hide and Foresee. > Yeah, I've found it to draw some hate at times but it's definately > worthwhile if you want to block vampires. > In terms of hoser events, I favour Blood Weakens, because it's such a strong defence against combat and stealth bleed. Other hoser events almost certainly won't help you directly. I've heard other players report very good win ratios for their > Imbued decks. If this trend continues, even when faced with decks that > don't overload on the harmful events and vampire-wrecking masters, some > players may conclude that the only way to have a shot at winning the table > is to take out the Imbued deck first. > I think part of it may simply be due to not knowing how to play against Imbued decks. A combat deck should certainly be aiming to destroy any incapacitated Imbued anytime they get the chance, which is counter to the instincts that people have developed over the past several years. I'm not sure how I'd play against them with a bleed or vote deck. I'd have to think about it. Kevin Walsh

LSJ wrote: > pd...@lightlink.com wrote: > > The long term solution? Everyone needs to develop non disruptive Imbued > > deck strategies. Ya know, ones that don't revolve around horrible > > Gehenna events and the master cards that make everyone hate you. > > Eventually, when people have Imbued technology that doesn't result in > > everyone hating them, people will stop hating them. > > My current Imbued deck has only one event: Blood Cult Awareness > Network, and that effect has never come to bear. > > In two runs (both at four-player tables), it achieved 2 GWs and 7VPs > (although the 3VP game was tediously close to being a 1VP game > instead). > I don't suppose we could see a decklist? :) Chris.

Omael wrote: > Everyone that have played imbued knows what i mean, so what did you do > to avoid crosstables rushes and/or bleeds? what about crosstable > ancient influence? > I mean, it's ok to play with that in a tournament, but in casual play > it just pisses the player without a good reason. > Please, share your experiences. I've played some 3 or 4 games with an "Intercept" Imbued deck and stoped because it is too slow for my taste, since it was just after the release people were more interested than annoyed by it. But... another player on our play group started playing with an imbued only deck that packs 18 gehenna cards , lots of "memories of mortality", and it's plan is to make all vampires on the table "1 cap" vampires that have to hunt every turn, it just kill you by erosion. If I can, I'll oust him, even if it's not my prey, and I'll urge everybody at the table to do so, because it is horrible to play against it. Unfortuntely I think this kind of deck will do good at tournaments, and I say unfortunately because they win but they make horrible games. Just my 2 cents.

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, i understand the point, but as someone already mentioned, there's a difference between Tier1 and tier2+tech. Maybe i need to experiment with some combination of imbued that doesnt wall so much, and i found that as a first aproach i can use less gehenna, I also found that if i only annoy other annoying decks on the table (like weenies) i'll be accepted and maybe even kept on the table, the only problem is that sometimes your ally is the one with weenies, and in this case the only thing you need to do is this: DISCARD the goddamn gehenna card instead of putting it in play, the hunter decks can manage a couple of extra cards as they are so good with card economy, so you just need to lear how to play it, and you can double the unmasking if you really need that Edge Explotion.

Omael wrote: > 2. With an avenger deck with 20 cleaves and a couple of fame it would > be too easy to go forward, for anyone that want to try, > woodstake+wooden staff, or just convictions and a way to avoid s:ce, if > anyone havetried a deck like this please tell me how it went. Went smoothly, most of the time. Sometimes I jammed on my Cleaves (although there are only 13 of them) or played a handful of them in combat only to see my opponent dodge. This deck does not induce as much table hate as my other Imbued decks, maybe because Bruise+bleed is so sympathetic. -Antero "Drive-by Cleaving" Crypt (10/12) 1 Jack Harmon Def 4 def jud maneuver 1 Jennifer Vidisania Ave 4 ven vis cheap weapons, +bleed, -stealth 2 John O'Mallet Ave 4 jud ven can atttact a monster at a cost of conviction 3 Lupe Droin Def 4 def ven vehicle special 2 Pedro Cortez Ave 4 mar ven +strength wont back up 1 Francois Loehr Jud 3 def jud actions against him cost blood=life 2 Tupdog Gar none because I want to avoid more duplicates even if they do not combo well w/TitR Library (77) Conviction (14) 5 React with Conviction 4 Second Sight 5 Strike with Conviction Master (11) 5 Angel of Berlin 1 Church of Vindicated Faith 2 Fame 1 Fortschritt Library 1 Haven Uncovered 1 Tension in the Ranks Action (6) 2 Ambush 2 Bum's Rush 2 Harass Action-Power (7) 2 Rejuvenate 3 Surge 2 Vigilance Ally (2) 1 Carlton Van Wyk 1 Vagabond Mystic Combat (23) 13 Cleave 5 Fake Out 2 Pulled Fangs 3 Weighted Walking Stick Equipment (10) 1 Crusader Sword 3 Hawg 2 IR Goggles 1 Laptop Computer 3 Leather Jacket Retainer (1) 1 Tasha Morgan Event (3) 1 Dragonbound 1 Edge Explosion 1 Unmasking

Nice to know there is such a deck.You should add a barrens. I've played the deck yesterday, it went really good both of the times, mainly because the second time my predator was an aggro poke !gangrel with rotschrek. But all and all, i asked to my allies if i should put in play each gehenna event, and that way noone got too angry (at least not my allies) [ quoted text not captured ]

Omael wrote: > Nice to know there is such a deck.You should add a barrens. > I've played the deck yesterday, it went really good both of the times, > mainly because the second time my predator was an aggro poke !gangrel > with rotschrek. But all and all, i asked to my allies if i should put > in play each gehenna event, and that way noone got too angry (at least > not my allies) > antero wrote: Probably, and if I had more Surges, I would certainly use 4 or 5. Note also that I had originally more Cleaves, but chose to swap a few for WWS's, to save my Convictions. -Antero

xcver wrote: > By the way another question. When will the online rulebook be updated > with the NoR rules? No plans to do so. I'll put a link to the NoR rules on that page, though.

[ quoted text not captured ] a link to the imbued crypt examples (the one in the prerelease checklist) would be good.

Ector wrote: > Talking about the table hate, just ask yourself: is it well-deserved or > not? If your deck actively messes with everyone's game, it may be. Good > decks kill their preys, slow their predators and HELP their allies. You > can do these things even with Imbued. Yes. Good point. > For instance, your Anna "Dictatrix11" Suljic can provide 2 blood to an > ally's vampire - why not include her or at least a bunch of Rejuvenates > if you plan to drain the vampires' blood with Gehenna cards? > Ancient Influence usually isn't a "crosstable hate" - somebody wants to > get pool with it. Again, you can prepare to this threat - personally I > prefer adding one support vampire to an Imbued deck (see my !Malk > newsletters for details). Add Marie Faucigny - and voila! Ancient > Influence will give you 2 pool instead of taking 5 away. Well. there is advantages to being all imbued. You vampire support with be a glaring target for Fame, Taste of Vitae, Anathemas, War Ghoul rushes and any other of the many, many popular cards that requires a vampire target. On the other hand with a vampire you can take actions to get the Rack, remove smiling jack, rescue or diabolize vampires and any of the other the many, many situations where you need an vampire. I would think all imbued are the stronger choice in most cases. > Finally, you should know your cards very well and be able to explain > their mechanics to any player. Imbued aren't overpowered, and > crosstable actions against them are just silly - every sentient player > should understand this if you care to explain. They seem powerful. Quite powerful. > If all else fails, you can find a friend willing to play Imbued, build > two Imbued decks to avoid contest, and play "table hate" yourself :) > This should FORCE your players to get accustomed to the Imbued and > understand their mechanics, and you will be able to play normally > afterwards. > Good luck! > I don't like the idea of forcing anyone to doing anything. If anyone tells me to please not use an imbued deck i will accomodate them, I have some decks to choose from and see no need to aggravate people who are spending their free time to enjoy a game with me. In our group we have seen the "screw vampires" deck and it received a chilly welcome. Sure we taunt breeder, weenie, S&B and basically any kind of deck that does not involve ripping someones head off but thats the a gleam in the eye. When Wyrmwood hits that gleam is gone. Its all very well to know that such decks can be made but in the end we all seem to be trying to "soften the impact" so to speak - with just a few events, with a support vampire or whatever and i must say Imbued seem very competive without all the hate stuff. My only imbued deck got 2 GW in its three first games and i made many rookie mistakes with them. Frede