Catatonic Fear Question

Catatonic Fear does the damage after combat... 1) Can the damage be prevented with Combat cards? 2) If used with Domain of Evernight or Daring the Dawn, the damage is normal not aggravated right? Cheers, Jason Liang

Jason Liang wrote: > > Catatonic Fear does the damage after combat... > > 1) Can the damage be prevented with Combat cards? No. Combat cards can only be played in combat. > 2) If used with Domain of Evernight or Daring the Dawn, the damage is normal > not aggravated right? Right. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> > Catatonic Fear does the damage after combat... > > > > 1) Can the damage be prevented with Combat cards? > > No. Combat cards can only be played in combat. What about the combat cards "dodge" or another S:CE? Don't they prevent the effects of the opposing minion's strike to the dodging minion, regardless of whether they happen in combat?

"Brian" <firstco...@aol.com> wrote in message news:80bafd85.02031...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I don't know how clearly I've explained this, but here goes. You will still take the damage in both instances. If the damage was handled during normal damage resolution phase of combat, then dodging the strike to avoid the damage would hold. But the damage from Catatonic Fear comes after combat ends. So, if you dodge the strike, you've only dodged the strike, not the after affects established by the strike (the opposing minions strike of "combat ends" was successful). Similarly, in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter if both of you end combat. The effect of causing one damage to the opposing minion after combat has already been established for his strike. Therefore, you're ending combat also meets the requirements of his strike and you take the damage after combat ends.

[ quoted text not captured ] 1) Neither Dodge nor S:CE prevent damage. They avoid strike effects and prevent a strike from resolving, respectively. 2) S:CE will prevent the dodge from resolving. [LSJ 25-SEP-1998] [ quoted text not captured ]

> > What about the combat cards "dodge" or another S:CE? Don't they > > prevent the effects of the opposing minion's strike to the dodging > > minion, regardless of whether they happen in combat? > > 1) Neither Dodge nor S:CE prevent damage. They avoid strike effects > and prevent a strike from resolving, respectively. > So, then, do they only prevent strike effects in combat? > 2) S:CE will prevent the dodge from resolving. [LSJ 25-SEP-1998] Gideon plays Catatonic Fear, Marianna Dodges. Combat ends, Marianna takes 1. Correct? Gideon plays Catatonic Fear, so does Marianna. Combat ends, both vampires take 1. Correct? If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a strike effect to me.

Brian wrote: > > > > What about the combat cards "dodge" or another S:CE? Don't they > > > prevent the effects of the opposing minion's strike to the dodging > > > minion, regardless of whether they happen in combat? > > > > 1) Neither Dodge nor S:CE prevent damage. They avoid strike effects > > and prevent a strike from resolving, respectively. > > So, then, do they only prevent strike effects in combat? They are combat cards. They can only be played in combat. If they resolve, their effects are applied. > > 2) S:CE will prevent the dodge from resolving. [LSJ 25-SEP-1998] > > Gideon plays Catatonic Fear, Marianna Dodges. Combat ends, Marianna > takes 1. > > Correct? Yes. > Gideon plays Catatonic Fear, so does Marianna. Combat ends, both > vampires take 1. > > Correct? Yes. > If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen > in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a > strike effect to me. ? Not following you here, sorry. [ quoted text not captured ]

vte...@white-wolf.com writes: >> If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen >> in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a >> strike effect to me. > >? >Not following you here, sorry. From just looking at the card, it's unclear whether it's Strike: [ combat ends, and inflict 1 damage] or [Strike: combat ends,] and inflict 1 damage. This is a generic problem on strike cards with complex effects; what's part of the strike and what isn't? This should probably be handled by a wording convention, like having a period between strike and non-strike effect, or by the "make a strike" wording (which IMO should be "minion makes a xx strike" rather than "make a xx strike" since the latter might indicate an additional card to deliver the specified strike is needed. Currently it's all hand strikes, I think, so it doesn't yet matter) Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) "It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson

[ quoted text not captured ] Still not seeing the problem, but if the solution is: "The damage is a strike effect" (which is a true statement in any event), then OK. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > >> If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen > > >> in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a > > >> strike effect to me. > > > > > >? > > >Not following you here, sorry. OK, I figured it out. Dodge doesn't resolve against Catatonic Fear, so whether the 1 damage is a strike effect or not is irrelevant. What I don't understand is, if two combatants each play Catatonic Fear (sup), don't they each prevent the other's strike from resolving, and thus they shouldn't take the 1 damage? In fact, if each's effect is "you don't get an effect", isn't that a paradox, one canceling the other's cancel and vice-versa? Kinda like A: B is false. B takes 1 damage. B: A is false. A takes 1 damage. Which is to be believed?

Brian wrote: > > > > >> If so, shouldn't the rulebook specify "effects of strikes that happen > > > >> in combat"? Taking one damage from Catatonic Fear sounds like a > > > >> strike effect to me. > > > > > > > >? > > > >Not following you here, sorry. > > OK, I figured it out. Dodge doesn't resolve against Catatonic Fear, > so whether the 1 damage is a strike effect or not is irrelevant. > > What I don't understand is, if two combatants each play Catatonic Fear > (sup), don't they each prevent the other's strike from resolving, and > thus they shouldn't take the 1 damage? In fact, if each's effect is No. Both S:CE resolve at the same time (strikes resolve simultaneously if they're the same "type" - S:CE, Dodge, FS, or other). > "you don't get an effect", isn't that a paradox, one canceling the > other's cancel and vice-versa? Kinda like > > A: B is false. B takes 1 damage. > B: A is false. A takes 1 damage. > > Which is to be believed? A and B take one damage. [ quoted text not captured ]

> No. Both S:CE resolve at the same time (strikes resolve simultaneously > if they're the same "type" - S:CE, Dodge, FS, or other). > > > "you don't get an effect", isn't that a paradox, one canceling the > > other's cancel and vice-versa? Kinda like > > > > A: B is false. B takes 1 damage. > > B: A is false. A takes 1 damage. > > > > Which is to be believed? > > A and B take one damage. So then, S:CE does not cancel an opposing strike, it just happens first, ending combat, which happens to neutralize all non-S:CE strikes, right?

Brian wrote: > So then, S:CE does not cancel an opposing strike, it just happens > first, ending combat, which happens to neutralize all non-S:CE > strikes, right? Right. See "Combat Ends" in 6.4.5 for more. [ quoted text not captured ]