Alan Kwan (kw...@cs.cornell.edu) wrote:
: 20. Replacing the "Wake with Evening's Freshness":
: WwEF is one of the few cards that is neither a Combat
: card nor an Action card, yet says "Do not Replace until
: after Combat.": Is the WwEF replaced before or after the combat?
: (The combat does not involve the Brujah who
: played the Wake.)
There has been a ruling that you also replace this card (and all others
with this wording) when it is apparent that the minion who played it is
not _going_ to enter combat.
[bobbitt - two good questions I'm not gonna touch]
: 21. Contesting the Barrens: I have the Barrens out.
: In opponent's master phase, opponent plays Barrens
: and contest with me.: I yell, "Wait! Before you do that, I tap Barrens
: to discard a card.": Question: how is the timing resolved here? Can I
: "react" LIFO to a Master card played by another
: player, or can my opponent demand that all such
: "fast effects" be played before revealing his
: Master card?
IMHO: Jyhad is _not_ magic, and you cannot do things 'retroactively' nor is
there a LIFO order - it is FCFS (first come first served.) As soon as he
brings his barrens out, the card is contested and no longer under your
control or in play, so you can't tap it as though it were.
In a 'friendly' game, your opponent might let you; we probably would
around here - but she is under no obligation to do so.
Shane Travis | There are two kinds of men who never amount to
sht...@duke.usask.ca | very much: those who cannot do what they are told,
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | and those who can do nothing else.
| -- Cyrus H.K. Curtis
20. Replacing the "Wake with Evening's Freshness":
WwEF is one of the few cards that is neither a Combat
card nor an Action card, yet says "Do not Replace until
after Combat."
Situation:
I have a tapped Brujah and an untapped Tremere. Opponent
comes to bleed me at +0 stealth. Brujah Wakes.
Opponent plays +1 stealth, getting through Brujah.
Tremere plays +1 Intercept, blocks bleed, combat
begins.
Question:
Is the WwEF replaced before or after the combat?
(The combat does not involve the Brujah who
played the Wake.)
If Brujah wants to play the Auspex action modifier to enter
combat with opponent (forgot name of card) after
this combat, do I need a second Wake card (or is it
illegal because I can't Wake twice in the same
action with one minion)? And when is the first Wake
card replaced? (If I don't need a second Wake,
then this means the first Wake allowed me to play
a reaction to enter combat.)
Another similar question:
If one minion attempts "Arson", gets blocked, combats,
then another minion plays "Hidden Lurker", is the
"Arson" replaced before or after the second
combat? Do I replace it before playing the
Hidden Lurker?
21. Contesting the Barrens: I have the Barrens out.
In opponent's master phase, opponent plays Barrens
and contest with me.
I yell, "Wait! Before you do that, I tap Barrens
to discard a card."
Question: how is the timing resolved here? Can I
"react" LIFO to a Master card played by another
player, or can my opponent demand that all such
"fast effects" be played before revealing his
Master card?
"Live Life with Heart."
Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu
--
"Live Life with Heart."
Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu
sht...@duke.usask.ca (Shane Hamish William Travis) writes:
>Joseph Cochran (js...@discus.ise.vt.edu) wrote:
>: >If one minion attempts "Arson", gets blocked, combats,>: >then another minion plays "Hidden Lurker", is the
>: >"Arson" replaced before or after the second
>: >combat? Do I replace it before playing the
>: >Hidden Lurker?>: As it stands, Hidden Lurker is an action. Thus, you'd replace
>: the card after the first combat and take a second action to Hidden
>: Lurker. When and if the card is corrected (has it already happened?) to
>: become an action modifier, you would not be done with combat for that
>: action, and would thus not replace the card.>Semi-official errata from Tom: Hidden Lurker is supposed to be a reaction
>and not an action. (Only semi-official because although he stated so
>publicly in this forum, he wasn't sure if they were just going to change
>the card in the next printing or also add official errate to the
>already-existing errata...)
Actually, he said it should probably be an action modifier, not a reaction.
(I hope that was what you meant :-).
Alan Kwan (kw...@cs.cornell.edu) wrote:
: 20. Replacing the "Wake with Evening's Freshness":: WwEF is one of the few cards that is neither a Combat
: card nor an Action card, yet says "Do not Replace until
: after Combat.": Situation:: I have a tapped Brujah and an untapped Tremere. Opponent
: comes to bleed me at +0 stealth. Brujah Wakes.
: Opponent plays +1 stealth, getting through Brujah.
: Tremere plays +1 Intercept, blocks bleed, combat
: begins.: Question:: Is the WwEF replaced before or after the combat?
: (The combat does not involve the Brujah who
: played the Wake.)
The card is not replaced until after the combat.
: If Brujah wants to play the Auspex action modifier to enter: combat with opponent (forgot name of card) after
: this combat, do I need a second Wake card (or is it
: illegal because I can't Wake twice in the same
: action with one minion)? And when is the first Wake
: card replaced? (If I don't need a second Wake,
: then this means the first Wake allowed me to play
: a reaction to enter combat.)
Replace the card after the combat is over. That means if you play Fast Reaction,then you should have already replaced the card since it is a new combat, but
you enter it with the other minion. You do not need a second Wake since the
Brujah has 'Wake'd.
: Another similar question:[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <3j5oeg$9...@tribune.usask.ca>,
Shane Hamish William Travis <sht...@duke.usask.ca> wrote:
>Semi-official errata from Tom: Hidden Lurker is supposed to be a reaction
>and not an action. (Only semi-official because although he stated so
>publicly in this forum, he wasn't sure if they were just going to change
>the card in the next printing or also add official errate to the
>already-existing errata...)
I hope you meant to say that it would be an action modifier, not
a reaction. It's only usable after an acting minion you control
finishes combat, which means it *has* to be played on your turn. Fast
Reaction is the reaction that does basically the same thing.
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu
| ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** |
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------
"Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK
In article <3j2a47$i...@tribune.usask.ca>,
Shane Hamish William Travis <sht...@duke.usask.ca> wrote:
// Alan Kwan (kw...@cs.cornell.edu) wrote:
// : Is the WwEF replaced before or after the combat?
// : (The combat does not involve the Brujah who
// : played the Wake.)
//
// There has been a ruling that you also replace this card (and all others
// with this wording) when it is apparent that the minion who played it is
// not _going_ to enter combat.
The card will probably (should definately) be reworded in the new set.
Probably, a "Do not replace until end of current action" is closest
to the intent.
//
// : 21. Contesting the Barrens: I have the Barrens out.
// : In opponent's master phase, opponent plays Barrens
// : and contest with me.
//
// : I yell, "Wait! Before you do that, I tap Barrens
// : to discard a card."
//
// : Question: how is the timing resolved here? Can I
// : "react" LIFO to a Master card played by another
// : player, or can my opponent demand that all such
// : "fast effects" be played before revealing his
// : Master card?
//
// IMHO: Jyhad is _not_ magic, and you cannot do things 'retroactively' nor is
// there a LIFO order - it is FCFS (first come first served.) As soon as he
// brings his barrens out, the card is contested and no longer under your
// control or in play, so you can't tap it as though it were.
//
// In a 'friendly' game, your opponent might let you; we probably would
// around here - but she is under no obligation to do so.
FCFS? Thats the ugliest acronym for FIFO i've seen. :) Putting
aside notation, I'd like to point out that if Jyhad doesn't allow
LIFO resposes, then race conditions are going to cause people to
rip each others throats out (especially in serious games). It's far
better to have the rules support a reaction system where the Barrens
can be used just before the contestion, than have the players fight
for a half hour over who acted first.
--
Brent Ross // "Skuld is nicer than // "Skuld is nicer than
bwr...@uwaterloo.ca // Medea." -- mlvanbie // mead." -- mtompset
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote:
: sht...@duke.usask.ca (Shane Hamish William Travis) writes:: >Semi-official errata from Tom: Hidden Lurker is supposed to be a reaction: >and not an action. (Only semi-official because although he stated so
: >publicly in this forum, he wasn't sure if they were just going to change
: >the card in the next printing or also add official errate to the
: >already-existing errata...): Actually, he said it should probably be an action modifier, not a reaction.
: (I hope that was what you meant :-).
Yeah, yeah. Meant to say Action Modifier.
Sheesh. Can't get _anything_ past you guys, can I? :-)
-Shane
In article <1995Mar1.0...@cs.cornell.edu>,
Alan Kwan <kw...@cs.cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>I have a tapped Brujah and an untapped Tremere. Opponent
>comes to bleed me at +0 stealth. Brujah Wakes.
>Opponent plays +1 stealth, getting through Brujah.
>Tremere plays +1 Intercept, blocks bleed, combat
>begins.
>>Is the WwEF replaced before or after the combat?
>(The combat does not involve the Brujah who
>played the Wake.)
WwEF applies until the current action is concluded. The do not
replace is there as a way to tell you when the current action is
concluded, so no, you would not replace it until after combat.
>If Brujah wants to play the Auspex action modifier to enter
>combat with opponent (forgot name of card) after
>this combat, do I need a second Wake card (or is it
>illegal because I can't Wake twice in the same
>action with one minion)? And when is the first Wake
>card replaced? (If I don't need a second Wake,
>then this means the first Wake allowed me to play
>a reaction to enter combat.)
It's Fast Reaction. And since WwEF applies until the action is
concluded, you don't need another one (since the action isn't over until
you finish all your reactions).
>If one minion attempts "Arson", gets blocked, combats,
>then another minion plays "Hidden Lurker", is the
>"Arson" replaced before or after the second
>combat? Do I replace it before playing the
>Hidden Lurker?
As it stands, Hidden Lurker is an action. Thus, you'd replace
the card after the first combat and take a second action to Hidden
Lurker. When and if the card is corrected (has it already happened?) to
become an action modifier, you would not be done with combat for that
action, and would thus not replace the card.
>Question: how is the timing resolved here? Can I
>"react" LIFO to a Master card played by another
>player, or can my opponent demand that all such
>"fast effects" be played before revealing his
>Master card?
Things always go acting meth, blocking meth (if appropriate) and
then clockwise from the acting when people want to do things at the same
time. However, you can't undo anything (except with Sudden Reversal),
so I would say that FIFO, and you're stuck.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Joseph Cochran (js...@discus.ise.vt.edu) wrote:
: >If one minion attempts "Arson", gets blocked, combats,: >then another minion plays "Hidden Lurker", is the
: >"Arson" replaced before or after the second
: >combat? Do I replace it before playing the
: >Hidden Lurker?: As it stands, Hidden Lurker is an action. Thus, you'd replace
: the card after the first combat and take a second action to Hidden
: Lurker. When and if the card is corrected (has it already happened?) to
: become an action modifier, you would not be done with combat for that
: action, and would thus not replace the card.
Semi-official errata from Tom: Hidden Lurker is supposed to be a reaction
and not an action. (Only semi-official because although he stated so
publicly in this forum, he wasn't sure if they were just going to change
the card in the next printing or also add official errate to the
already-existing errata...)
Shane Travis | There are two kinds of men who never amount to
[ quoted text not captured ]
>
> Semi-official errata from Tom: Hidden Lurker is supposed to be a reaction
> and not an action. (Only semi-official because although he stated so
> publicly in this forum, he wasn't sure if they were just going to change
> the card in the next printing or also add official errate to the
> already-existing errata...)
>
> Shane Travis | There are two kinds of men who never amount to
> sht...@duke.usask.ca | very much: those who cannot do what they are told,
> Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | and those who can do nothing else.
> | -- Cyrus H.K. Curtis
but that makes no sense.if hidden lurker was a reaction card, it would be
a fast reaction- you can't play reaction cards on your own turn. if it
was a reaction card, you could only use it after blocking someone. i
don't have my cards with me, so i can't see it, but what is hidden lurker
now? i always thought it was a modifier. if it's an action, what's wrong
with that? either way, you tap the next vamp.
harpua
Jyhad doesn't have any kind of timing rules, really, and it's not possible
to respond to actions unless a card specifically allows you to (Sudden
Reversal). If a race condition comes up, assume the active player had to
decide first whether to do anything, with priority going clockwise from there.
The usual "Are you done yet?" protocols apply as well, so if the active
player is just zipping through the phases, someone can make her back up,
though I would be less lenient about backups in Jyhad than in Magic...
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Hidden Lurker should really be an action modifier, yes, not an action
(or a reaction). As far as I know there hasn't been errata to this
effect issued, though.
[ quoted text not captured ]
bwr...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Brent Ross) wrote:
> FCFS? Thats the ugliest acronym for FIFO i've seen. :) Putting
> aside notation, I'd like to point out that if Jyhad doesn't allow
> LIFO resposes, then race conditions are going to cause people to
> rip each others throats out (especially in serious games). It's far
> better to have the rules support a reaction system where the Barrens
> can be used just before the contestion, than have the players fight
> for a half hour over who acted first.
Peace Brent,
I'm going to agree and disagree with you at the same time. I agree that
lack of reaction could cause problems, but that's part of the game. If
you wait too long to use a unique card, you might lose it. What about
when you bring out a vampire and, before your next turn (you haven't
gotten to use it), someone brings out the same vampire and contests you.
You just don't get to use that vampire. Something similar happened to
me this weekend. I was playing my Malkavian deck and had a Madness
Network in play. Bill played Unnatural Disaster on the Madness Network.
I couldn't do anything with my untapped Malkavians (I had been saving
them to use until just before my turn). For all intents and purposes all
my minions lost a turn (sat around and picked their noses). That's part
of the game and I like it.
Nil carborundum illigitimi,
James R. McClure Jr.
The OS/2 Apostle
<insert disclaimer here>