Yaa! Another "No Self Contesting" question!

Right. So in the new FN rulebook, you are not allowed to Self Contest. If you are forced to self contest, the second copy is automatically burned. This seems very straight forward in terms of unique Master/Minion cards--you simply can't play them. Now what does this all mean in terms of influencing out vampires that you already control? -Can I Govern at Superior a vampire that I already control? -Can I do this (Govern down) if it won't bring out the vampire (say putting 3 blood on a 6 cap vampire)? -Can I do this (Govern down) if it will (say putting 3 blood on a 2 cap vampire)? -Can I transfer to a vampire that I already control? -Can I transfer enough blood to a vampire I control to bring him out? -Am I restricted to only transfering N-1 blood to a vampire I already control, where N is their capacity? I am fully in favor of the No Self Contesting rule, but it strikes me that there is an awful lot of ambiguity attatched. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com http://www.geocities.com/bakija6 "She's a hero you see. She's not like us." -Giles

On 23 Jul 2001 20:06:13 GMT, pd...@aol.comANTISPAM (Peter D Bakija) wrote: >Right. So in the new FN rulebook, you are not allowed to Self Contest. If you >are forced to self contest, the second copy is automatically burned. > >This seems very straight forward in terms of unique Master/Minion cards--you >simply can't play them. Now what does this all mean in terms of influencing out >vampires that you already control? Standard disclaimer for others: IANALSJ. If you must be CERTAIN, wait for him. >-Can I Govern at Superior a vampire that I already control? Seems logical, as long as he's younger. Governing by itself doesn't trigger contesting. >-Can I do this (Govern down) if it won't bring out the vampire (say putting 3 >blood on a 6 cap vampire)? Also seems logical; still doesn't trigger contesting. >-Can I do this (Govern down) if it will (say putting 3 blood on a 2 cap >vampire)? This sets up future contesting IF the vampire comes out, but the action itself doesn't self-contest, so I'd think so. One could choose to transfer blood -off- the vampire, for example, and avoid contesting in that fashion. I would also say that you were not REQUIRED to transfer blood off the vampire once you got to your influence phase; the vampire just comes into play and is immediately burned, per the rules. >-Can I transfer to a vampire that I already control? Don't see why not. >-Can I transfer enough blood to a vampire I control to bring him out? Since this would result in you contesting with yourself, I'd say no. >-Am I restricted to only transfering N-1 blood to a vampire I already control, >where N is their capacity? This also seems logical, as the act of transferring causes an immediate contest and there's no way for you to avoid contesting the vampire after making the transfers. >I am fully in favor of the No Self Contesting rule, but it strikes me that >there is an awful lot of ambiguity attatched. The English language is a wonderful thing. =) -- Derek [THIS SPACE FOR RENT]

"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@aol.comANTISPAM> wrote in message news:20010723160613...@ng-mc1.aol.com... > Right. So in the new FN rulebook, you are not allowed to Self Contest. If you > are forced to self contest, the second copy is automatically burned. > Right. So in the new FN rulebook, you are not allowed to Self Contest. If you > are forced to self contest, the second copy is automatically burned. > > This seems very straight forward in terms of unique Master/Minion cards--you > simply can't play them. Now what does this all mean in terms of influencing out > vampires that you already control? > > -Can I Govern at Superior a vampire that I already control? sure, and if he comes out, he burns > > -Can I do this (Govern down) if it won't bring out the vampire (say putting 3 > blood on a 6 cap vampire)? yes > > -Can I do this (Govern down) if it will (say putting 3 blood on a 2 cap > vampire)? > yes you can, the excess burns off and if it would cause you to contest yourself the incoming copy burns instantly > -Can I transfer to a vampire that I already control? > yes > -Can I transfer enough blood to a vampire I control to bring him out? yes, the incoming copy burns upon entering play. > > -Am I restricted to only transfering N-1 blood to a vampire I already control, > where N is their capacity? no, you can transfer all you like, the vampire comes into play after the transfer phase where you brought the vampire to capacity and if that vampire entering play causes you to contest yourself, the incoming copy would burn. > > I am fully in favor of the No Self Contesting rule, but it strikes me that > there is an awful lot of ambiguity attatched. > Peter D Bakija > PD...@aol.com > http://www.geocities.com/bakija6 > > "She's a hero you see. > She's not like us." > -Giles -- Oscar Garza Prince of College Station Tx The Crazy Aggie

>===== Original Message From pd...@aol.comANTISPAM (Peter D Bakija) ===== >Right. So in the new FN rulebook, you are not allowed to Self Contest. If you >are forced to self contest, the second copy is automatically burned. > >This seems very straight forward in terms of unique Master/Minion cards--you >simply can't play them. Now what does this all mean in terms of influencing out >vampires that you already control? If a second copy of a vampire you already control is moved to your controlled area (e.g., by being moved to your ready region at the end of your influence phase), it is burned. >-Can I Govern at Superior a vampire that I already control? Yes. >-Can I do this (Govern down) if it won't bring out the vampire (say putting 3 >blood on a 6 cap vampire)? Yes. >-Can I do this (Govern down) if it will (say putting 3 blood on a 2 cap >vampire)? Yes. >-Can I transfer to a vampire that I already control? Yes. >-Can I transfer enough blood to a vampire I control to bring him out? Yes. >-Am I restricted to only transfering N-1 blood to a vampire I already control, >where N is their capacity? No. >I am fully in favor of the No Self Contesting rule, but it strikes me that >there is an awful lot of ambiguity attatched. If you like. You cannot voluntarily play a second copy. In the case of influenced vampires, moving the copy to your controlled area is not voluntary - it is mandatory when the vampire has sufficient counters on him. [7] If there's any ambiguity left, let me know. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ ------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at: http://MailAndNews.com

"LSJ" <vte...@MailAndNews.com> wrote in message news:3B78...@MailAndNews.com... > >===== Original Message From pd...@aol.comANTISPAM (Peter D Bakija) ===== > >Right. So in the new FN rulebook, you are not allowed to Self Contest. If you > >are forced to self contest, the second copy is automatically burned. > > > >This seems very straight forward in terms of unique Master/Minion cards--you > >simply can't play them. Now what does this all mean in terms of influencing > out > >vampires that you already control? > > If a second copy of a vampire you already control is moved to your > controlled > area (e.g., by being moved to your ready region at the end of your influence > phase), it is burned. If you move a 2nd Jimmy Dunn into play, does the already-in-play Jimmy Dunn's ability trigger before the no contesting rule, thereby allowing the 2nd Jimmy Dunn to come into play with full blood? > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (remove PLEASENOSPAMME for direct reply) "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, _The_Art_of_War_ "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

In message <v6677.173778$mG4.82...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>, Kevin M. <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEhome.com> writes >If you move a 2nd Jimmy Dunn into play, does the already-in-play Jimmy Dunn's >ability trigger before the no contesting rule It's not a "trigger", it's continually there. You can't contest Jimmy. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "Surely somewhere out there there's a woman who's EBD690ECD7A1F been sodomized by her father and is capable of B457CA213D7E6 composing a few coherent sentences on the subject." 68C3695D623D5D

"Kevin M." wrote: > If you move a 2nd Jimmy Dunn into play, does the already-in-play Jimmy Dunn's > ability trigger before the no contesting rule, thereby allowing the 2nd Jimmy > Dunn to come into play with full blood? Essentially, yes. Jimmy cannot be contested, so there's no way you can self-contest. -- [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3B5D687A...@white-wolf.com... > "Kevin M." wrote: > > If you move a 2nd Jimmy Dunn into play, does the already-in-play Jimmy Dunn's > > ability trigger before the no contesting rule, thereby allowing the 2nd Jimmy > > Dunn to come into play with full blood? > > Essentially, yes. > Jimmy cannot be contested, so there's no way you can self-contest. So there is no way I can SELF-contest Jimmy, but I can still bring out my Jimmy to make someone else's Jimmy go <poof!>, correct? [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <lnn77.176676$mG4.83...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com>, Kevin M. <kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEhome.com> writes >> Essentially, yes. >> Jimmy cannot be contested, so there's no way you can self-contest. > >So there is no way I can SELF-contest Jimmy There is no way you can contest Jimmy at all, be it with yourself or someone else. (Card text) You will, however, make the burn clause kick in, whoever controls it. >, but I can still bring out my Jimmy >to make someone else's Jimmy go <poof!>, correct? Yes. You'll make your own Jimmy go "poof" too, if you bring one out when you already control Jimmy. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: >>If there's any ambiguity left, let me know.>> Nope, you pretty much covered it all. I guess I didn't get the part about how bringing a vampire into play from the controlled riegon is in involuntary action, regardless of how the blood gets on them. Thus, you are free to influence out a vampire you already control should you be so inclined--it just gets burned when it becomes active. [ quoted text not captured ]

Kevin wrote: >>So there is no way I can SELF-contest Jimmy, but I can still bring out my Jimmy to make someone else's Jimmy go <poof!>, correct?>> No, no, you missunderstand. It is impossible to contest anyone's Jimmy Dunn (yours or an opponent's), by defenition. Thus, you are free to bring out a second Jimmy Dunn, even if you already have one in play, and burn your own first Jimmy Dunn, as he does not ever contest--he simply burns the first one. You can bring out a Jimmy Dunn to burn your own Jimmy Dunn, or someone else's. Jimmy Dunn completely circumvents the "you may not self contest" rule, as Jimmy Dunn does not ever contest anyone, as per card text. [ quoted text not captured ]