Anyone had a Real Fight over Jyhad?

Last night it was FAR too hot and crowded in the shop, and everyone got very irritable. In fact at one point there was a real danger of a fight breaking out between me and a guy [a magic player] called dave, who objected to me shifting some of his stuff so that we could have room to play our game [he had just had a box of good lands nicked, so he was in a SPECIALLY bad mood]. Nothing really bad happened, but for a few minutes the shop went VERY quiet. Anyway this set me thinking about whether anyone has ever actually come to blows over our Great Game. i, of course, have made a profession of pissing off Rob Treasure with Jolly Japes like cross-table attacks, contesting, and life booning his prey with all my pool, and he did once ask Lady Legbiter if she would mind terribly much if he beat me up [she said no. Never marry, dear brothers and sisters in Caine]. Alex often annoys me INTENSELY with what he sees as role-playing, and i see as rank amateurism [there was a guy at GenCon who plays similarly, and was lucky to escape without a good kicking from the Extremely Large but not-so-gentle-giantish-as-he-looks Steve Wright], and i was also pretty cross with Philippe when he tried out his predator- killing !Malky deck on me at Louisa's house. But has anyone on this NG actually found themselves dishing out REAL lucky blows to another player who, doubtless, richly deserved it? Legbiter, perhaps the only RL psycho on the group, though he suspects otherwise. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

> But has anyone on this NG actually found themselves dishing out REAL > lucky blows to another player who, doubtless, richly deserved it? Indeed. And I heard quite a bit of noise about it for a long time after that: "I can't believe you... over a few cards." They just don't understand. Anyway, here's the story: Playing a Lasombra vote deck once (one that didn't work particularly well, btw) against a few friends and some "friends of friends" from out of town. As I soon found out, one of the guys sitting in with us had a temper and was a sore, sore loser. He got to be my favorite target because of his mouth and antics. Anything that he did against you, he let you, and probably most of the block, know. Well I went after him. And once every vamp he had was subverted by the always reliable Pentex, he had a fit. I grinned, but didn't throw in any "That's what you get" or "What did you expect?" comments. Well, after he was ousted, he piled up my Pentex Subversion cards (4), tore the small stack in half and dropped in on the table in front of me. Then he leaned over the table and grinned the same grin I had been wearing for most of the game. The idiot apparently didn't notice that I controlled, and was toying with, the Edge, an 8-inch tall pewter figurine of a gargoyle. I smashed it onto his hand, breaking 2 fingers. In addition, and I still find this a bit funny, his nose was bloodied when he jerked his hand away and fell onto the table nose-first. So yes, I've been in a real tussle because of Jyhad. I'm very calm usually, and that's the only time I've lost my temper because of a game. Oh sure, I get irritated at certain tactics and whatnot, but that's part of the game, and I can deal with it. Whenever I'm around that group of friends, I still sometimes get razzed about that. > Legbiter, perhaps the only RL psycho on the group, though he suspects > otherwise. Me too, brother. *flashes his Psychotics Non-Anonymous card* Me too. p. [ quoted text not captured ]

[there was a guy at GenCon who plays similarly, and was lucky to escape without a good kicking from the Extremely Large but not-so-gentle-giantish-as-he-looks Steve Wright] ian wanted to add to this statement that he sat with his feet ontop of mine to stop me kicking the bloke under the table.he was at one point heard telling me to 'sshh and calm down'. I was so very close but steve promised he'd beat him up the tcg way so i didn't hit him. and besides its not very ladylike ;) as for smacking players, i have to admit yes twice. 1) particular player known for cheating decided to continue doing so during a game even though it was pointed out before. I was the only girl there and as i was the one who pointed it out, i got very, very personal abuse back which i didn't take to kindly to at all. something went a bit haywire and he was left with a black eye and a very sore face. I had a sore hand but he isn't allowed to play anymore. 2) there is a very violent player who is a very very bad loser, even worse than RT ;) . during a very long game during which I was playing briujah and so was he. i contested his vamps/masters and refused play in his favour (ed's note - we were living together at the time). he was slowly losing his temper and then he exploded and started to hit objects and doors. I said that i wasn't going to play with someone who was like that to which i had him attempt to hit me. I hit back in self defense. it must have been hard enough cos he fell over but i left him about 2 days later. he was known for being violent especially if he din't win or someone beat up his vampire/voted against him/ bleed him for lots. note for the pompey/s.hampton players. i have calmed down lots and even though i am very loud, i'm unlikely to hit anyone now. i just shout at them lots especially when they play a weenie bleed deck and then just sit there doing nothing cos one of their vamps got a bit hurt. hint alex, play your deck as it should be played. besides i never go anywhere without ian for protection for you guys. as for roleplaying, ian reackons its ok if its agreed before agame and everyone does it and nobody cares who wins but we both agree certain people shouldn't be allowed to. ie bloke in gencon and one or two of the pompey crowd. anyway, see ya all saturday. Anam

In article <37f39d6d...@nntp.netcom.net.uk>, Stubby <stu...@netcomuk.co.uk> writes >i am very loud Hmmm... one to remember for later quoting. (Okay, so it was out of context but...) *g* -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk

Here in easy going Los Angeles we have not yet had a fist fight. However players getting in yelling or screaming matches, throwing chairs, and slamming cards or other objects down on tables has happened numerous times... The closest I've come to a physical fight was with a guy who didn't handle loosing well. He was a relative newbie that shelled out a lot of money on cards and quickly developed a powerful Ventrue deck. He proved to have a lot of skill with that deck and often won. Soon many of us made adjustments to deal with it. When he quit winning a lot he got more and more frustrated and out of control. Finally we where playing at my apartment one night. I did something to really screw his game plan. He made some harsh comments and I replied in kind. Finally he said something "I can beat the S**t out of you". I said, "Try it". He sat there shaking in anger and got up. I braced for the attack but he yelled and punched my wall instead. After a time he cooled off and we finished the game. He decided to quit playing and gave me all his cards not to long after this incident. The closest I have come to hitting someone came in the first round of a tournament. This also happened to be the first tournament in the DCI ranking. I specifically made a Settite corruption deck because I knew I would be seeing weenie bleed and I also didn't want to have any trouble with contesting. We all drew seating and I was at a table with only four players. Just as we are starting a teenage guy wearing a Settite pin shows up. The judge sets him at our table and rolls randomly for his position. He ends up being my prey. I had the misfortune of having a weenie presence bleed deck with Misdirection and Zip Gun/Dragon Breath as my predator. I got a good draw with two Wakes, two deflections and a Majesty. Unfortunately I went first and could not get out a vamp the first turn. To make matters worse the only vamp I had in my opening crypt draw that had Dominate was Kephamos, and 8 capacity. I told my prey that I was putting out Kephamos and I might be able to hold off my predator for a while with him. I also let him know that if he put him out and contested him my predator would blow through both of us. He shook his head and said ok. So I brought out Kephamos after getting bled for around twelve. What did this idiot do? On his turn he puts out Kephamos. I was easily ousted the next turn. I wanted to kill him. I used restraint and only yelled "Good job dumb s**t. Your next!". I watched and heckled him as he was ousted with no effort the next turn. The entire game was over in about 30 minutes. After I cooled off I tried to explain to him what his mistake was. Apparently he did a similar thing to someone else in the next round... I still want to kill him... Steve Bucy "I was dead. I'm better now" - John Sheridan legb...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7svlbn$sf5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>... >Last night it was FAR too hot and crowded in the shop, and everyone got >very irritable. In fact at one point there was a real danger of a fight >breaking out between me and a guy [a magic player] called dave, who >objected to me shifting some of his stuff so that we could have room to >play our game [he had just had a box of good lands nicked, so he was in a >SPECIALLY bad mood]. Nothing really bad happened, but for a few minutes >the shop went VERY quiet. Anyway this set me thinking about whether >anyone has ever actually come to blows over our Great Game. i, of course, >have made a profession of pissing off Rob Treasure with Jolly Japes like >cross-table attacks, contesting, and life booning his prey with all my >pool, and he did once ask Lady Legbiter if she would mind terribly much >if he beat me up [she said no. Never marry, dear brothers and sisters in >Caine]. Alex often annoys me INTENSELY with what he sees as role-playing, >and i see as rank amateurism [there was a guy at GenCon who plays >similarly, and was lucky to escape without a good kicking from the >Extremely Large but not-so-gentle-giantish-as-he-looks Steve Wright], and >i was also pretty cross with Philippe when he tried out his predator- >killing !Malky deck on me at Louisa's house. But has anyone on this NG >actually found themselves dishing out REAL lucky blows to another player >who, doubtless, richly deserved it? > >Legbiter, perhaps the only RL psycho on the group, though he suspects >otherwise. > > [ quoted text not captured ]

(dude, I heard Legbiter say:) > Alex often annoys me INTENSELY with what he sees as role-playing, > and i see as rank amateurism [there was a guy at GenCon who plays > similarly, and was lucky to escape without a good kicking from the > Extremely Large but not-so-gentle-giantish-as-he-looks Steve Wright]... By "roleplaying," do you in fact mean playing according to what the player believes are appropriate behaviors for whatever clan he or she is playing? I've only seen this used with Malkavians, so I tend to think of it as an excuse to play like a goon. I can't imagine "roleplaying" a Lasombra or Ventrue deck would require much change in strategy. -Matt who never actually hit anyone playing Jyhad. But that Fred guy came close at the War Room.

In article <01bf0bd1$a24a1e20$2a37aec7@wyld>, "Matthew Heslin" <hes...@sprynet.com> wrote: > (dude, I heard Legbiter say:) > > Alex often annoys me INTENSELY with what he sees as role-playing, > > and i see as rank amateurism [there was a guy at GenCon who plays > > similarly, and was lucky to escape without a good kicking from the > > Extremely Large but not-so-gentle-giantish-as-he-looks Steve Wright]... > > By "roleplaying," do you in fact mean > playing according to what the player believes > are appropriate behaviors for whatever clan he > or she is playing? > I've only seen this used with Malkavians, > so I tend to think of it as an excuse to play like > a goon. I can't imagine "roleplaying" a Lasombra > or Ventrue deck would require much change in > strategy. Alex usually plays Malky decks and is a role-player, including the LARP version. So yes, basically the way he plays does reflect the stereotypic malky personality. In my view this is a mistake about what KIND of a roleplaying game Jyhad is. You aren't a neonate in this game, you're a Methuselah [actually, if you read the rule-book carefully, you are supposed to be an ANtediluvain who controls Methuselahs] and you've been undead for an AWFULLY long time, so childish antics, discourtesy and pique really aren't appropriate. The particular one that pissed me off on Wednesday was Alex spending all his time fighting Michael's Assamites [his predator] just because Michael had put a Contract on Raven [Alex fancies Raven, y'see]. As a result, mark had a completely free run at me, and i got ousted; but not before i had royally buggered up my unfortunate prey [nathan], and so mark got him and then Michael too, winning the game outright. Under normal table dynamics and rational play i reckon i would have won that game, so i felt cheated. O course, if you talk to Rob he will accuse me of similar behaviour, but that's a bit different in my view - in that i always TRY to win, and only if i am losing hopelessly will i indulge in a spot of metagame-altering psychopathic lunacy [if people know you might do something mad, and especially if they know that you always deliver on your promises and threats, it helps you to win more games in the long run]. > > -Matt > who never actually hit > anyone playing Jyhad. > But that Fred guy came > close at the War Room. What, to hitting or to being hit? Legbiter the happy psycho now that he knows at least three of his brothers and sisters share his, erm, hard-to-meet needs. Lessee, who sells BIG pewter figurines round here? [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > In my view this is a mistake about what KIND of a > roleplaying game Jyhad is. You aren't a neonate in this game, you're a > Methuselah [actually, if you read the rule-book carefully, you are > supposed to be an ANtediluvain who controls Methuselahs] and you've been ? "players take on the roles of ancient vampires known as Methuselahs." [Overview] -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

> Legbiter the happy psycho now that he knows at least three of his > brothers and sisters share his, erm, hard-to-meet needs. Lessee, who > sells BIG pewter figurines round here? Heeheehee. Don't spend too much on it. They apparently don't hold up well when used as a hammer. p. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <37F4A286...@wizards.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > In my view this is a mistake about what KIND of a > > roleplaying game Jyhad is. You aren't a neonate in this game, you're a > > Methuselah [actually, if you read the rule-book carefully, you are > > supposed to be an ANtediluvain who controls Methuselahs] and you've been > > ? > "players take on the roles of ancient vampires known as Methuselahs." > [Overview] > Somewhere in one of the books there is a little throwaway line about the motives behind the Jyhad. i don't have a copy to hand, so i paraphrase: "perhaps they are the puppets of the even older antediluvians, as blissfully unaware of this status as their own minions are of the secret forces controlling them". i've always seen that as a possible rationale for the fact that you keep coming back to life, no matter how often you are killed. Me, i prefer being a Methuselah who's just plain indestructible: i mean look how many times Dracula has risen from the grave, and if even the juicebags can do Reform Body, Possession and Whispers of the Dead, how enormously much greater must our own powers be! [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > In my view this is a mistake about what KIND of a > > > roleplaying game Jyhad is. You aren't a neonate in this game, you're a > > > Methuselah [actually, if you read the rule-book carefully, you are > > > supposed to be an ANtediluvain who controls Methuselahs] and you've been > > > > ? > > "players take on the roles of ancient vampires known as Methuselahs." > > [Overview] > > > Somewhere in one of the books there is a little throwaway line about the > motives behind the Jyhad. i don't have a copy to hand, so i paraphrase: > "perhaps they are the puppets of the even older antediluvians, as > blissfully unaware of this status as their own minions are of the secret > forces controlling them". That's from the original Jyhad rulebook: "The motivations for the war between the Methuselahs are lost in the sands of dead civilizations. Perhaps the Methuselahs are vying for world conquest.Perhaps they work under the influence of yet older vampires, believing as naively in their own autonomy as the vampires they control believe in theirs." The Jyhad is waged by Methuselahs (represented by the players). If they wage this war under the unknown influence of Antediluvians, well that's fine. But the card game just models the Methuselahs (players) and their minions. > i've always seen that as a possible rationale > for the fact that you keep coming back to life, no matter how often you > are killed. You don't get killed. You lose your influence in the world and can no longer wage the war. Either way, though, you don't come back after being ousted. [ quoted text not captured ]

> -Matt > who never actually hit > anyone playing Jyhad. > But that Fred guy came > close at the War Room. I had forgotten about that Matt! Man, Fred WAS pissed that day. The story was (as far as I remember) Stu Pieloch was performing his usual "influencing" of other Methuselah's at the table (like telling someone that they should not bleed their prey and such) and the newbie players were falling in hook, line and sinker. Fred blew up! It took me an hour to calm him down at lunch between rounds of the tourney. And later that day someone else pulled a "Stu" at his table. Poor Fred blew up again. Thought he was going to have a heartattack. By the end of the tourney he was just sitting there shaking and not saying a word. He wanted to punch someone but I do not think he knew who needed it the most. Everything written above is in no way meant to disrespect Stu Pieloch. Stu is a hell of a player and friend. Just the newer players sometimes do not know how to take him and his words. This always leads to funny stories. Todd Banister Prince of Atlanta Scribe of the Assamites

On Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:30:37 GMT, legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > >Legbiter the happy psycho now that he knows at least three of his >brothers and sisters share his, erm, hard-to-meet needs. Lessee, who >sells BIG pewter figurines round here? >> I have serveral but I don't fancy having blood on them. One stands at 1 foot high (angel) with very pointy wings. and some various 'throwing' items aswell about the place. alex is begining to get ot ian which is a very bad scene (ian is very very laid back and does not get stressed about anything) to the extent that last time we played, ian wanted to punch him. i'm just glad i wasn't there on wednesday. there is a queue building for dave though but remeber he's off to join the navy soon (if you believe the rumours going round). personally, i prefer pointy sticks. concealable and useful - other than that I am still entitled to have a gun licence for another couple of years ;) one of daddys legacy's anyway. see ya tomorrow anam btw: Mr. Coupe ... I have always admitted to being loud and I can get away with it too :)

>The story was (as far as I remember) Stu Pieloch >was performing his usual "influencing" of other >Methuselah's at the table (like telling someone that >they should not bleed their prey and such) and the >newbie players were falling in hook, line and sinker. >Fred blew up! It took me an hour to calm him down at >lunch between rounds of the tourney. </lurk> You weak minded fool! These are not the droids you are looking for. Stu -Your friendly neighborhood Camarilla scholar --and apparently Jedi Master [ quoted text not captured ]

Todd Banister wrote in message ... >> -Matt >> who never actually hit >> anyone playing Jyhad. >> But that Fred guy came >> close at the War Room. > >I had forgotten about that Matt! Man, Fred WAS pissed that day. The story >was (as far as I remember) While that did happen that day... Fred became fixated on blaming a single, very minor, play decision that Matt had made as being the source of all his woes for the day. He proceeded to remind Matt of this between every turn he played upon the next two rounds of the tourney. I was several tables away, and even I got sick of hearing it after the seventh turn ;-)... Matt can fill in the details Regards, R. David Zopf Atom Weaver V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC

(I said:) > > I've only seen this used with Malkavians, > > so I tend to think of it as an excuse to play like > > a goon. I can't imagine "roleplaying" a Lasombra > > or Ventrue deck would require much change in > > strategy. (Then Legbiter says back:) > Alex usually plays Malky decks and is a role-player, including the LARP > version. So yes, basically the way he plays does reflect the stereotypic > malky personality. Seems to be a trend. Would it be too elitist or judgemental to propose that such players fear failure so much, they don't even attempt to succeed or win? > > who never actually hit > > anyone playing Jyhad. > > But that Fred guy came > > close at the War Room. > What, to hitting or to being hit? Me hitting him. I failed to play a Sudden Reversal against his prey when his prey played an 18-point Tribute to the Master. He was my prey, and I saw no reason to help him out, since he wasn't doing much to help himself out in the first place. He responded by bitching, moaning, whining and complaining for two hours straight. For the first hour I could cope, but I was getting toward the end of my rope by the end of the tourney. I told him not to take the game that seriously and lighten up. But, since I was that frustrated by his reaction, maybe I too should have lightened up a bit, hmmm? -Matt "I was roleplaying a Lasombra. That means I don't have to follow all the rules."

On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 myrm...@my-deja.com wrote: > Well I went after him. And once every vamp he had was subverted by the > always reliable Pentex, he had a fit. um, isn't Pentex Subversion unique?

In article <01bf0d13$54b43860$a437aec7@wyld>, "Matthew Heslin" <hes...@sprynet.com> wrote: > (I said:) > > > I've only seen this used with Malkavians, > > > so I tend to think of it as an excuse to play like > > > a goon. I can't imagine "roleplaying" a Lasombra > > > or Ventrue deck would require much change in > > > strategy. > (Then Legbiter says back:) > > Alex usually plays Malky decks and is a role-player, including the LARP > > version. So yes, basically the way he plays does reflect the stereotypic > > malky personality. > Seems to be a trend. Would it be too > elitist or judgemental to propose that such players > fear failure so much, they don't even attempt to > succeed or win? Hmmm, interesting thought. i'm not sure if it's generally applicable in our little coterie, since we all do a bit of role-playing at least from time to time, and i personally have no problem with people role-playing the METHUSELAH at all [and as ian says elsewhere in this thread, role- playing of any kind is ok provided everyone at the table understands, and agrees with, what is going on]. But in the above case i think you might have hit on what was really going on, because when i started creating to Alex about how badly and amateurishly he was playing, he responded by saying that he didn't want to oust Mark because he reckoned he had no chance at all against my deck [bit of context here - i had just beaten him hollow in the previous game]. In his defence, Alex generally DOES try to win, and often succeeds in the playgroup, though his tournament record is a bit more patchy. > > > > who never actually hit > > > anyone playing Jyhad. > > > But that Fred guy came > > > close at the War Room. > > What, to hitting or to being hit? > Me hitting him. I failed to play a Sudden Reversal > against his prey when his prey played an 18-point > Tribute to the Master. He was my prey, and I saw no > reason to help him out, since he wasn't doing much > to help himself out in the first place. > He responded by bitching, moaning, whining and > complaining for two hours straight. For the first hour I > could cope, but I was getting toward the end of my rope > by the end of the tourney. I told him not to take the game > that seriously and lighten up. But, since I was that frustrated > by his reaction, maybe I too should have lightened up > a bit, hmmm? In similar circumstances i tend to smile sweetly and offer the aggrieved player a sweetie or a cigarette. That usually works. If not, i rip out their liver and make them eat it. > > -Matt > "I was roleplaying a > Lasombra. That means > I don't have to follow > all the rules." Hehehe ... look, i'm a 6000-year-old embodiement of Supernatural Cunning and Absolute Evil. In which particular respects do you think i've role- played that incorrectly???? [ quoted text not captured ]

> > Well I went after him. And once every vamp he had was subverted by > > the always reliable Pentex, he had a fit. > > um, isn't Pentex Subversion unique? I suppose I should qualify: We had 13 players that night, and rather than split up into groups and play, we decided to all play in one large game. We, as was the usual for late night games, were drinking red wine by the jug, and decided that since we had so many players, contestation would be quite a problem. So we came up with a "no uniques" rule for the night. Everyone tweaked their decks just before the game, and we all went at it. p. [ quoted text not captured ]

>I suppose I should qualify: > >We had 13 players that night, and rather than split up into groups and >play, we decided to all play in one large game. We, as was the usual >for late night games, were drinking red wine by the jug, and decided >that since we had so many players, contestation would be quite a >problem. So we came up with a "no uniques" rule for the night. >Everyone tweaked their decks just before the game, and we all went at >it. I'm sure that a protracted game with a "no uniques" rule and no contestation would be...quite interesting. Imagine the Toreador deck with half a dozen copies of Alexandra out. How many untaps do I get? Oh -- and speaking of Toreador, think about how many Louvre's you could use with a Prince of Paris. I wonder if Arika's and Leandro's abilities are cumulative. Burn 3+ pool per location...pay 3+ pool for transfers.... You know, that really does sound like a fun idea. A bit demented and unbalancing, but it could be quite entertaining. I'll have to try it sometime! Halcyan 2

> I'm sure that a protracted game with a "no uniques" rule and no > contestation would be...quite interesting. Imagine the Toreador deck > with half a dozen copies of Alexandra out. How many untaps do I get? > Oh -- and speaking of Toreador, think about how many Louvre's you > could use with a Prince of Paris. > I wonder if Arika's and Leandro's abilities are cumulative. Burn 3+ > pool per location...pay 3+ pool for transfers.... You know, that > really does sound like a fun idea. A bit demented and unbalancing, > but it could be quite entertaining. I'll have to try it sometime! > > Halcyan 2 Well, it was quite unbalanced. There was a Toreador deck, if I remember correctly, that had Masika and Alexandra going crazy. Then a Malk deck with 4 or 5 Dr. Jest cards out. All in all, I'd have to say it was a pretty bad idea. But we were pretty jolly anyway. Well... except for that game of "bash the digits" I played with William. If you came up with a few more rules and some general no-no's, maybe it could be fun and non-abusable though. [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com wrote: >i was also pretty cross with Philippe when he tried out his predator- >killing !Malky deck on me at Louisa's house. But has anyone on this NG >actually found themselves dishing out REAL lucky blows to another player >who, doubtless, richly deserved it? Well, Leggy, considering that you helped me tweak that deck, and knew I would be playing it that night, and basically knew what the strategy was, didn't you think you would have it coming? Besides, you also know quite well that you are always my favorite target when you are my predator. Bleu

In article <rvnl4t...@corp.supernews.com>, leg...@nospam.generation.net (Philippe Richer) wrote: > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > >i was also pretty cross with Philippe when he tried out his predator- > >killing !Malky deck on me at Louisa's house. But has anyone on this NG > >actually found themselves dishing out REAL lucky blows to another player > >who, doubtless, richly deserved it? > > Well, Leggy, considering that you helped me tweak that deck, and knew I would > be playing it that night, and basically knew what the strategy was, didn't you > think you would have it coming? Yeah, my heart sank into my boots when i saw the seating order. i had kinda hoped to be admiring your deck from afar, at least for a bit. > > Besides, you also know quite well that you are always my favorite target when > you are my predator. > > Bleu Indeed, my dear, i spose i would be amazed and hurt if you ever changed round to the more orthodox [and, i might add, successful] policy of going for your prey. [ quoted text not captured ]