Increasing the bleed

This is a question from a friend that I couldnt answer and neither could my local VTES message board (VTES Sydney yahoo) Is it possible to increase the bleed of your predator? If so how? btw I tried to research the answer before hand but came up with nothing... sorry if this has already been addressed. Shane of Fysh

On 4 May 2003 15:11:36 -0700, fys...@hotmail.com wrote: >This is a question from a friend that I couldnt answer and neither >could my local VTES message board (VTES Sydney yahoo) >Is it possible to increase the bleed of your predator? No. There are no cards currently in the game that allow you to increase the amount of someone else's bleed action. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

[ quoted text not captured ] Not entirely true, but admittedly a cornercase. Cardname: Abandoning the Flesh Cardtype: Combat/Reaction Set: CE Discipline: Dementation Cardtext: Only usable by a vampire being burned. [dem] Remove this vampire from the game instead (diablerie, if any, is still successful), and put this card into play. You may not play this card if you already have an Abandoning the Flesh in play. You may tap this card when a vampire with Dementation is bleeding to give that vampire +1 bleed for the current action. Sten During

>>This is a question from a friend that I couldnt answer and neither >>could my local VTES message board (VTES Sydney yahoo) > >>Is it possible to increase the bleed of your predator? > >No. > >There are no cards currently in the game that allow you to increase >the amount of someone else's bleed action. Well, there still are ways however to indirectly increase the amount that your predator is bleeding you for. The best example I can think of is that your predator is bleeding you during your turn (via the Madness Network) with a conditional bleeder (+ bleed if you control a particular sect or clan) and then you use Temptation to gain control of a vampire that meets that specification. By doing so, you are increasing your predator's bleed. Another more straightforward example I just thought of is Abandoning the Flesh, which can be used for other people's Dementation bleeds. You can also do things indirectly like through Madman's Quill. Also, if your predator is bleeding you with a minion who has played a Melange on you (but you nonetheless control it via Succubus Club or something), you have the option of burning the Melange to increase the bleed against you. That's all I can think of off the top of my head... Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: > That's all I can think of off the top of my head... Aren't there some kooky cards that allow you to give stuff away (other than Succubus Club), like Rave or something, where you could give your predator some lap Tops or J.S. Simmons or something? Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "You were right, Roger. That's a big-ass worm." -Hellboy

On Mon, 05 May 2003 00:25:23 +0200, Sten During <ya...@netg.se> wrote: >> There are no cards currently in the game that allow you to increase >> the amount of someone else's bleed action. >Not entirely true, but admittedly a cornercase. >Cardname: Abandoning the Flesh You can't get that card into the game. :> I challenge you to 1) put it in a deck and 2) put it into play, and I'll give you 2 more if you do. 1) Should never happen as there will always be a better card for the deck. 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while not in combat and being burned. I'll want 4 witnesses. [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra wrote: > I challenge you to 1) put it in a deck and 2) put it into play, and > I'll give you 2 more if you do. > > 1) Should never happen as there will always be a better card for the > deck. > > 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being > burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while > not in combat and being burned. I saw it go into play just Friday night. Luke had a vampire in Torpor, and one of his other vampires deablerized the torporized vampire. Both vanished (one due to diablere and one do to blood hunt), and *poof* an Abandoning the Flesh was in play. That works, right? [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sun, 04 May 2003 21:57:19 -0400, Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote: >> I challenge you to 1) put it in a deck and 2) put it into play, and >> I'll give you 2 more if you do. >> 1) Should never happen as there will always be a better card for the >> deck. >> 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being >> burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while >> not in combat and being burned. >I saw it go into play just Friday night. Luke had a vampire in Torpor, and >one of his other vampires deablerized the torporized vampire. Both vanished >(one due to diablere and one do to blood hunt), and *poof* an Abandoning the >Flesh was in play. >That works, right? Nope. You cannot play Abandoning the Flesh in response to a Blood Hunt. You cannot play reaction cards from torpor without explicit card text. Abandoning the Flesh lacks such text. This is an illegal play. [ quoted text not captured ]

Pentex Loves You, that'll work <fys...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4efce83b.03050...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oekbbv46kdt2krjuu...@4ax.com>... > On Sun, 04 May 2003 21:57:19 -0400, Peter D Bakija > <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote: > > >> I challenge you to 1) put it in a deck and 2) put it into play, and > >> I'll give you 2 more if you do. > > >> 1) Should never happen as there will always be a better card for the > >> deck. > > >> 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being > >> burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while > >> not in combat and being burned. so...if some pot guy rips your head off, or some tariq or tyler amaranths you, or you take X+2 or more agg damage, then you can play it? what about if you're untapped and someone Protect Thine 0wnz y00? salem.

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<d44bbvcurrnt3v8jc...@4ax.com>... > On 4 May 2003 15:11:36 -0700, fys...@hotmail.com wrote: > > >This is a question from a friend that I couldnt answer and neither > >could my local VTES message board (VTES Sydney yahoo) > > >Is it possible to increase the bleed of your predator? > > No. > > There are no cards currently in the game that allow you to increase > the amount of someone else's bleed action. Actually, if your predator bleeds with a Sabbat vampire and you have the Pentex Loves You! in play, you could theoretically tap it to give them an additional +1 bleed if they were inclined to burn the blood. ;-) ----------------------------- Ethan Burrow - Texas Justicar http://monger.vekn.org/ http://texas.vekn.org/

The Lasombra wrote: > On Mon, 05 May 2003 00:25:23 +0200, Sten During <ya...@netg.se> wrote: > > >>>There are no cards currently in the game that allow you to increase >>>the amount of someone else's bleed action. >> > > >>Not entirely true, but admittedly a cornercase. > > >>Cardname: Abandoning the Flesh > > > > You can't get that card into the game. :> > > > I challenge you to 1) put it in a deck and 2) put it into play, and > I'll give you 2 more if you do. > *grin* No takers there :) > 1) Should never happen as there will always be a better card for the > deck. 1.5 and lowering the librarysize with one card wpuld probably also qualify as substituting Abandoning the Flesh with a better card. > > 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being > burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while > not in combat and being burned. This actually poses a minor problem here. Enough combat for people to actually consider Anathema and Crimson Fury. > > > I'll want 4 witnesses. > You'll want more than that the day you find out that a player at a table near you actually plays a deck with Abandoning the Flesh because his/her strategy is based on unlikely selfburning in order to be able to increase one predatorbleed by one... Sten During

Ethan Burrow wrote: :: The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message :: news:<d44bbvcurrnt3v8jc...@4ax.com>... ::: On 4 May 2003 15:11:36 -0700, fys...@hotmail.com wrote: ::: :::: This is a question from a friend that I couldnt answer and :::: neither could my local VTES message board (VTES Sydney yahoo) ::: :::: Is it possible to increase the bleed of your predator? ::: ::: No. ::: ::: There are no cards currently in the game that allow you to ::: increase the amount of someone else's bleed action. :: :: Actually, if your predator bleeds with a Sabbat vampire and you :: have the Pentex Loves You! in play, you could theoretically tap it :: to give them an additional +1 bleed if they were inclined to burn :: the blood. :: :: ;-) Yeah, and i just realised how Pentex Loves you is good with Forgery. If you forget that computer hacking exist ;)

Couldn't I use temptation on my predator's vampire, and then when I control it, bleed my prey using Spying Mission at superior? The vampire is returned to my predator, but I still control Spying Mission. Next time my predator bleeds my prey, I burn the Spying Mission to give him +2 bleed. I'm not sure how much choice I have with Spying Mission; I think I have none. Can I choose to burn Spying Mission if the bleed is currently at 0, to bump it up to 2? I think not. Ira

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<p2ebbv0ql0e12c1r9...@4ax.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] Shadow Court Satyr can play it. He is quite likely to be burned in combat sooner or later. ^^ /henrik

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oekbbv46kdt2krjuu...@4ax.com>... > On Sun, 04 May 2003 21:57:19 -0400, Peter D Bakija > <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote: > > >> I challenge you to 1) put it in a deck and 2) put it into play, and > >> I'll give you 2 more if you do. > > >> 1) Should never happen as there will always be a better card for the > >> deck. > > >> 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being > >> burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while > >> not in combat and being burned. > > >I saw it go into play just Friday night. Luke had a vampire in Torpor, and > >one of his other vampires deablerized the torporized vampire. Both vanished > >(one due to diablere and one do to blood hunt), and *poof* an Abandoning the > >Flesh was in play. furthermore you can`t play reaction cards in response to your own actions. [ quoted text not captured ]

Ira wrote: > Couldn't I use temptation on my predator's vampire, and then when I > control it, bleed my prey using Spying Mission at superior? The > vampire is returned to my predator, but I still control Spying > Mission. Next time my predator bleeds my prey, I burn the Spying > Mission to give him +2 bleed. You do not still control the Spying Mission. Spying Mission, being a minion card, is controlled by the controller of the minion it is on. > I'm not sure how much choice I have with Spying Mission; I think I > have none. Can I choose to burn Spying Mission if the bleed is > currently at 0, to bump it up to 2? I think not. This is correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Nope. > > You cannot play Abandoning the Flesh in response to a Blood Hunt. > > You cannot play reaction cards from torpor without explicit card text. > > Abandoning the Flesh lacks such text. > > This is an illegal play. Doh! You are correct. I didn't actually read the card (and have never actually seen it in play, for obvious reasons :-), and just figured it was legal (and in any case, my predator lost 2 vampires, so I didn't ask too many questions :-) So what actual circumstances will result in Abandoning entering play? -Peter

PD...@bigplanet.com (Peter D Bakija) wrote in message news:<3273413.03050...@posting.google.com>... > So what actual circumstances will result in Abandoning entering play? I don't own an Abandoning the Flesh so I've never tried it, but my Basil module consists of : 1) giving Basil dementation 2) Having Basil rush or block someone older than Basil that isn't playing S:CE, Dodge, or maneuvers (i.e. will strike him with hands or worse) 3) Disguise out White Phosphorous Grenade and suicide at close range. 4) Poof, you have an Abandoning the Flesh in play. Getting the correct cards in your hand and surviving to play them is an exercise for the reader. ----------------------------- Ethan Burrow - Texas Justicar http://texas.vekn.org/ http://monger.vekn.org/

PD...@bigplanet.com (Peter D Bakija) wrote in message news:<3273413.03050...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] I'd like a ruling on this, because the text "Only useable by a vampire being burned" should override the "can't play from torpor" reaction card restriction. And otherwise the only way this could ever be played as a reaction card is to get someone to play Temptation of Greater Power on you. It is certainly true you can't diablerize your own minions and end up with it in play no matter which one you try to use it on. In combat you can Coma/Amaranth and then be burned in the blood hunt and then play it as a combat card. (This is because the Amaranth blood hunt happens DURING combat - see other recent thread on Illusions of the Kindred.) I would also be extremely impressed if someone managed to set up a THA/dem combo in which you somehow got down to 1 blood before combat then Burst of Sunlight (at superior) while being punched and then Abandoned the Flesh. I will give TWO golf claps to anyone I see pulling off that combo. (Maybe a turbo-Ian deck with Dementation skill cards?) So there are complicated but possible ways of setting up the card in combat, but I would like clarification on the reaction side of things, because it seems to be designed to be used when being diablerized. However, as Jeff rightly points out, you normally can't play reaction cards from torpor. (If only it were an action mod as well so that you could play it after a Daring the Dawn.) LSJ? Is the reaction aspect of this card essentially meaningless? Or can we say that "only useable by a vampire being burned" means you can play it from torpor? -Volya42

PD...@bigplanet.com (Peter D Bakija) wrote in message news:<3273413.03050...@posting.google.com>... [snip] > > So what actual circumstances will result in Abandoning entering play? > > -Peter Shadow Court Satyr. That's the only way I see to make Abandoning the Flesh usable. Then all you need is some !Gangrels with dementation... /henrik

Eric Simon wrote: > I'd like a ruling on this, because the text "Only useable by a vampire > being burned" should override the "can't play from torpor" reaction > card restriction. It does not. You need not be in torpor to be burned. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3EB6B1BE...@white-wolf.com>... > Eric Simon wrote: > > I'd like a ruling on this, because the text "Only useable by a vampire > > being burned" should override the "can't play from torpor" reaction > > card restriction. > > It does not. You need not be in torpor to be burned. All right then. Here goes - The following non-combat cards may burn vampires that are not in torpor. (I am not including action mods that would burn the acting vamp, because none of those allow for a reaction to be played by the acting minion.) I believe this is everything, so please let me know if I've missed something or if I'm wrong about my assessment in any case - Actions: 1. Judgement: Camarilla Segregation - vampire is burned during controller's master phase, no opportunity for reaction card 2. Judgement: Death to the Brujah! - vampire is burned during controller's minion phase, no opportunity for reaction card 3. The Sixth Tradition: Destruction - Hooray! Opportunity for reaction by the burned vamp 4. Triole's Revenge - vampire is burned while hunting, no opportunity for reaction card Masters: 1. Antediluvian Awakening - vampire is burned during controller's untap phase, no opportunity for reaction card 2. Archon Investigation - vampire is burned while bleeding, no opportunity for reaction card 3. Fear of Mekhet - vampire is burned during controller's untap phase, no opportunity for reaction card 4. Golconda - not usable if played on your own vampires. Also not usable if played by someone else on you, because there is no action to react to. (See text of Rewind Time.) 5. Millicent Smith, Puritan Vampire Hunter - vampire is burned while acting, no opportunity for reaction card 6. Out of Control - No action. Can't react. 7. Society of Leopold - vampire is burned during controller's untap phase, no opportunity for reaction card 8. Toy Chest Test - No action. Can't react. 9. Vicissitude Poisoning - Vampire could theoretically burn during another Methusaleh's minion phase. Hooray! There's an opportunity to play a reaction card. (More likely that this would happen in combat, however.) 10. Week of Nightmares - vampire is burned during another Methusaleh's untap phase, no opportunity for a reaction card Political actions: 1. Anathema - vampire burns in combat, so you'd play Abandoning the Flesh as a combat card anyway 2. Justicar Retribution - Vampire burns as a result of the referendum. Hooray! Opportunity to play reaction card. 3. Protect Thine Own - Vampire burns as a result of the referendum. Hooray! Opportunity to play reaction card. 4. Sacrifice - Vampire burns as a result of the referendum. Hooray! Opportunity to play reaction card. 5. Tradition Upheld - Vampire burns as a result of the referendum. Hooray! Opportunity to play reaction card. Reactions: 1. Crimson Fury - vampire burns while diablerizing, no opportunity for reaction card So that's it. Vicissitude Poisoning (not bloody likely), 6th Tradition (not bloody likely) plus 4 votes unlikely to be called against vamps with Dementation. Other than that, all burning happens either through combat, diablerie or the blood hunt. You can't play this card if you are taking a diablerie action and get burned in the blood hunt (because then you're acting and can't react), but you could play it if someone is rescuing self and you block and eat and then burn. Of all the possibilities, that last one is probably the most reasonable use of the reaction aspect of the card. Other than that, good luck trying to pull it off outside of combat. (There is also the possibility of taking some action under Madness Network that gets you burned. Perhaps someone could slap a Fortitude skill card on Boy Toy or Gillian and bleed with Mind Tricks followed by Daring the Dawn.) CONCLUSION: In order to make this happen, the best Malk/!Malk deck style is going to be block/coma/amaranth, and also you should block and eat anyone trying to rescue self. Eventually you'll either eat everybody or get the card into play. -Volya42

In article <6f81fa2c.03050...@posting.google.com>, vol...@yahoo.com says... > 4. Golconda - not usable if played on your own vampires. Also not > usable if played by someone else on you, because there is no action to > react to. (See text of Rewind Time.) Not to mention Golconda removes from the game. > Reactions: > 1. Crimson Fury - vampire burns while diablerizing, no opportunity for > reaction card Crimson Fury can be played in combat as well, and thus can be used there. > So that's it. Vicissitude Poisoning (not bloody likely), 6th > Tradition (not bloody likely) plus 4 votes unlikely to be called > against vamps with Dementation. Last I checked, Protect Thine Own was fairly effective against Malkavian antitribu. There's nothing about the card that I can see being deterred by Dementation. > (There is also thepossibility of taking some action under Madness Network > that gets you burned. Perhaps someone could slap a Fortitude skill card > on Boy Toy or Gillian and bleed with Mind Tricks followed by Daring the Dawn.) You still can't react to your own actions, even if acting out of turn. -- -Snapcase

saa...@yahoo.com (Ethan Burrow) wrote in message news:<fad0b3bc.03050...@posting.google.com>... > PD...@bigplanet.com (Peter D Bakija) wrote in message news:<3273413.03050...@posting.google.com>... > > So what actual circumstances will result in Abandoning entering play? > > I don't own an Abandoning the Flesh so I've never tried it, but my > Basil module consists of : > > 1) giving Basil dementation > 2) Having Basil rush or block someone older than Basil that isn't > playing S:CE, Dodge, or maneuvers (i.e. will strike him with hands or > worse) > 3) Disguise out White Phosphorous Grenade and suicide at close range. > 4) Poof, you have an Abandoning the Flesh in play. Get a vampire with Dem/Tha. Minion Tap to 1 blood. Get into combat. Use combat cards that take you down to 0 blood. Deal 2 aggravated damage to yourself. Go poof! Play Abandoning the Flesh. Burst of Sunlight. Body of Sun. Blood of Acid. Is this right?

> You can't get that card into the game. :> I saw it played a few weeks ago. > > > I challenge you to 1) put it in a deck and 2) put it into play, and > I'll give you 2 more if you do. > > 1) Should never happen as there will always be a better card for the > deck. Mr brother-in-law put it in a deck. > > 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being > burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while > not in combat and being burned. So if his untapped vampire is rushed and burned in the ensuing combat are you saying the card cannot be played? If not, why not? If yes when will you be sending him the two cards? > I'll want 4 witnesses. How's five? Chris.

On 5 May 2003 20:33:42 -0700, chr...@comcen.com.au (Chris Arthur) wrote: >> You can't get that card into the game. :> >I saw it played a few weeks ago. >> I challenge you to 1) put it in a deck and 2) put it into play, and >> I'll give you 2 more if you do. >> 1) Should never happen as there will always be a better card for the >> deck. >Mr brother-in-law put it in a deck. >> 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being >> burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while >> not in combat and being burned. >So if his untapped vampire is rushed and burned in the ensuing combat >are you saying the card cannot be played? No, I am saying that it is such a cornercase occurrance that you should never plan for it and should never put that card in for a plus one bleed when you could have used Voice of Madness to avoid the combat or any other card to win the game with instead. >If not, why not? If yes when >will you be sending him the two cards? When the 4 witnesses make themselves known to me. >> I'll want 4 witnesses. >How's five? Five would be great. They can each email me separately, from their own email accounts, and if your brother-in-law includes his mailing address I will mail his new cards. [ quoted text not captured ]

Snapcase <shotgu...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.1920b80c6...@news.optonline.net>... > In article <6f81fa2c.03050...@posting.google.com>, >vol...@yahoo.com says... > > > 4. Golconda - not usable if played on your own vampires. Also not > > usable if played by someone else on you, because there is no action to > > react to. (See text of Rewind Time.) > > Not to mention Golconda removes from the game. Right. Forgot about that. > > Reactions: > > 1. Crimson Fury - vampire burns while diablerizing, no opportunity for > > reaction card > > Crimson Fury can be played in combat as well, and thus can be used > there. True. Another "more likely for combat" use. > > So that's it. Vicissitude Poisoning (not bloody likely), 6th > > Tradition (not bloody likely) plus 4 votes unlikely to be called > > against vamps with Dementation. > > Last I checked, Protect Thine Own was fairly effective against Malkavian > antitribu. There's nothing about the card that I can see being deterred > by Dementation. I was thinking more of the unlikelihood of someone playing it. It's a fairly rare occurrence, even in decks that include an IC or Justicar. The fun thing is, if someone calls the vote and you're playing with Abandoning the Flesh, you can use the line, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Heck, use that one in combat too. > > (There is also the possibility of taking some action under Madness Network > > that gets you burned. Perhaps someone could slap a Fortitude skill card > > on Boy Toy or Gillian and bleed with Mind Tricks followed by Daring the >Dawn.) > > You still can't react to your own actions, even if acting out of turn. Ah, oops. Well, there you have it. My conclusion definitely stands - block/coma/amaranth is the way to go. Not guaranteed to get the card in play, but more likely than anything else. -Volya42

In article <6f81fa2c.03050...@posting.google.com>, vol...@yahoo.com says... > > Last I checked, Protect Thine Own was fairly effective against Malkavian > > antitribu. There's nothing about the card that I can see being deterred > > by Dementation. > > I was thinking more of the unlikelihood of someone playing it. It's a > fairly rare occurrence, even in decks that include an IC or Justicar. > The fun thing is, if someone calls the vote and you're playing with > Abandoning the Flesh, you can use the line, "If you strike me down, I > shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Heck, use > that one in combat too. Dude, where do you live (because I want to move there)? I'm so friggin sick of PTO. > Ah, oops. Well, there you have it. My conclusion definitely stands - > block/coma/amaranth is the way to go. Not guaranteed to get the card > in play, but more likely than anything else. Actually I don't think that works here; I don't think you can play the Abandoning the Flesh due to burning by blood hunt. -- -Snapcase

Snapcase <shotgu...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.1921f96d1...@news.optonline.net>... > In article <6f81fa2c.03050...@posting.google.com>, vol...@yahoo.com says... > > > > Last I checked, Protect Thine Own was fairly effective against Malkavian > > > antitribu. There's nothing about the card that I can see being deterred > > > by Dementation. > > > > I was thinking more of the unlikelihood of someone playing it. It's a > > fairly rare occurrence, even in decks that include an IC or Justicar. > > The fun thing is, if someone calls the vote and you're playing with > > Abandoning the Flesh, you can use the line, "If you strike me down, I > > shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." Heck, use > > that one in combat too. > > Dude, where do you live (because I want to move there)? I'm so friggin > sick of PTO. Currently Portland, moving to Chicago in a month. I'm about the only one who plays it regularly around here. Qualified (3-way tie for 6th) at the NW Regional Qualifier and didn't see the card once among the 20 people playing. > > Ah, oops. Well, there you have it. My conclusion definitely stands - > > block/coma/amaranth is the way to go. Not guaranteed to get the card > > in play, but more likely than anything else. > > Actually I don't think that works here; I don't think you can play the > Abandoning the Flesh due to burning by blood hunt. You certainly can if you diablerize when blocking someone rescuing self as long as you woke to do so (so that you can still play reaction cards as if untapped). As far as the Amaranth scenario goes, see the previous threads about Illusions of the Kindred and the blood hunt. LSJ has clearly stated that the blood hunt that is called after an Amaranth happens DURING combat, so combat cards can still be played.

The Lasombra wrote: :: They can each email me separately, from their own email accounts, :: and if your brother-in-law includes his mailing address I will :: mail his new cards. you da man ;)

> >> 2) Should never happen as you will never be able to play it when being > >> burned. As you have to be in combat or untapped and reacting while > >> not in combat and being burned. > > >So if his untapped vampire is rushed and burned in the ensuing combat > >are you saying the card cannot be played? > > No, I am saying that it is such a cornercase occurrance that you > should never plan for it and should never put that card in for a plus > one bleed when you could have used Voice of Madness to avoid the > combat or any other card to win the game with instead. I agree it's not a first-tier card. > > > >If not, why not? If yes when > >will you be sending him the two cards? > > When the 4 witnesses make themselves known to me. Ok, I'll try to get them into action. > > > >> I'll want 4 witnesses. > > >How's five? > > Five would be great. > > They can each email me separately, from their own email accounts, and > if your brother-in-law includes his mailing address I will mail his > new cards. Ok, thanks. :) Chris.

vol...@yahoo.com (Eric Simon) wrote in message news:<6f81fa2c.0305...@posting.google.com>... > > Actually I don't think that works here; I don't think you can play the > > Abandoning the Flesh due to burning by blood hunt. > > You certainly can if you diablerize when blocking someone rescuing > self as long as you woke to do so (so that you can still play reaction > cards as if untapped). As far as the Amaranth scenario goes, see the > previous threads about Illusions of the Kindred and the blood hunt. > LSJ has clearly stated that the blood hunt that is called after an > Amaranth happens DURING combat, so combat cards can still be played. This post seems to disagree with you: http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3E9D8D95.8050601%40white-wolf.com -Snapcase

The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<d44bbvcurrnt3v8jc...@4ax.com>... > On 4 May 2003 15:11:36 -0700, fys...@hotmail.com wrote: > > >This is a question from a friend that I couldnt answer and neither > >could my local VTES message board (VTES Sydney yahoo) > > >Is it possible to increase the bleed of your predator? > > No. > > There are no cards currently in the game that allow you to increase > the amount of someone else's bleed action. Errr... well... Slightly cornercase... with the predators agreement, Pentex(TM) Loves You! (assuming they are using a Sabbat vampire). DH

In message <3150b71e.03050...@posting.google.com>, Snapcase <shotgu...@optonline.net> writes: >> >> You certainly can if you diablerize when blocking someone rescuing >> self as long as you woke to do so (so that you can still play reaction >> cards as if untapped). As far as the Amaranth scenario goes, see the >> previous threads about Illusions of the Kindred and the blood hunt. >> LSJ has clearly stated that the blood hunt that is called after an >> Amaranth happens DURING combat, so combat cards can still be played. > >This post seems to disagree with you: > >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3E9D8D >95.8050601%40white-wolf.com It does. The Amaranth and resulting Bloodhunt occur *during* combat. This is important for a couple of timing specific issues - specifically, Illusions of the Kindred, but there may be more general issues which aren't springing to mind right now. (It's important that it's still during the action for the purposes of Heidelberg, for instance, so you can't sneak anything off a vampire.) However, the Bloodhunt is nothing to do with combat - it's just occuring at the same time. So you can't play combat cards or reaction cards or action modifiers. It just happens. This includes the burning due to a successful bloodhunt - it just happens. The only things you can play during a bloodhunt are - barring explicit card text, like Absolution of the Diabolist - political action cards, for votes. (You can also burn the edge for a vote.) -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Lucky that my breasts are small and humble, EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 So you don't confuse them with mountains. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<U7CgCTTU...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>... [ quoted text not captured ] Correct, but you are burning before combat is over. Thus, you have met the two criteria of the card: 1) be burning 2) be in combat The same holds true for Reform Body. Can I get an LSJ confirmation or denial on this one?

In message <6f81fa2c.03050...@posting.google.com>, Eric Simon <vol...@yahoo.com> writes: >> >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3E9D8D >> >95.8050601%40white-wolf.com >Correct, but you are burning before combat is over. Thus, you have >met the two criteria of the card: > >1) be burning >2) be in combat By the same token, the Bloodhunt is during an action, so you should be able to react to it. You can't. The Bloodhunt and destruction occurs at specific times but stands entirely separate to them. >The same holds true for Reform Body. > >Can I get an LSJ confirmation or denial on this one? Read the link at the top? > Does this answer still hold (you can't play reform > even though it's still combat)? Yes, it does. The blood hunt is conducted independently of the surrounding action and (if any) combat. No action modifiers, reaction cards, or combat cards can be played. [ quoted text not captured ]

Eric Simon wrote: > James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: >>Snapcase <shotgu...@optonline.net> writes: >>>>LSJ has clearly stated that the blood hunt that is called after an >>>>Amaranth happens DURING combat, so combat cards can still be played. >>> >>>This post seems to disagree with you: >>> >>>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3E9D8D >>>95.8050601%40white-wolf.com >> >>The Bloodhunt is nothing to do with combat - it's just occuring >>at the same time. So you can't play combat cards or reaction cards or >>action modifiers. It just happens. This includes the burning due to a >>successful bloodhunt - it just happens. >> >>The only things you can play during a bloodhunt are - barring explicit >>card text, like Absolution of the Diabolist - political action cards, >>for votes. (You can also burn the edge for a vote.) > > Correct, but you are burning before combat is over. Thus, you have > met the two criteria of the card: > > 1) be burning > 2) be in combat > > The same holds true for Reform Body. > > Can I get an LSJ confirmation or denial on this one? James Coupe is correct, per the ruling Snapcase cited. Neither combat cards nor reaction cards can be played during a bloodhunt. [ quoted text not captured ]

James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<xAcZsErs...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>... > In message <6f81fa2c.03050...@posting.google.com>, Eric Simon > <vol...@yahoo.com> writes: > >> >http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3E9D8D > >> >95.8050601%40white-wolf.com > > >Correct, but you are burning before combat is over. Thus, you have > >met the two criteria of the card: > > > >1) be burning > >2) be in combat > > By the same token, the Bloodhunt is during an action, so you should be > able to react to it. > > You can't. > > The Bloodhunt and destruction occurs at specific times but stands > entirely separate to them. > > > >The same holds true for Reform Body. > > > >Can I get an LSJ confirmation or denial on this one? > > Read the link at the top? > > > Does this answer still hold (you can't play reform > > even though it's still combat)? > > Yes, it does. > The blood hunt is conducted independently of the surrounding action and > (if any) combat. No action modifiers, reaction cards, or combat cards > can be played. I have read this, I guess I just don't understand it. 6.5.6 clearly states that the blood hunt is not an action, so action mods and reaction cards cannot be played. I can understand that. However, this clarification that states you cannot play COMBAT cards (which is not stated in 6.5.6) implies something beyond the "time freeze" that normally surrounds the blood hunt referendum - it implies that during the blood hunt referendum the vampire is *not in combat*. During any given referendum there is the standard sequence of terms/polling/resolve before things start up again, and in the blood hunt everything else stops until those steps can be taken. But does that mean the vampire is not considered to be "in combat" at the time? It seems to me that either the blood hunt referendum following an Amaranth happens during combat or it doesn't. If it happens during combat, then the blood-hunted vampire is burning during combat, right? The rules do not explicitly prevent you from playing combat cards during the blood hunt referendum (or during any referendum, for that matter, but the blood hunt is the only one that can happen during combat), and nothing in 6.5.6 indicates that combat "stops" temporarily. It seems to me, like I stated above, that the two criteria for Abandoning the Flesh or Reform Body are therefore met. So I see that this ruling has been made, but I don't see why. And on a related note - if a vampire Amaranths and is not burned in the blood hunt, is there still an opportunity (since combat is not over) for the diablerized vampire to play Crimson Fury? Or does that have to happen before the blood hunt?

Eric Simon wrote: > I have read this, I guess I just don't understand it. 6.5.6 clearly > states that the blood hunt is not an action, so action mods and > reaction cards cannot be played. I can understand that. However, > this clarification that states you cannot play COMBAT cards (which is > not stated in 6.5.6) implies something beyond the "time freeze" that > normally surrounds the blood hunt referendum - it implies that during > the blood hunt referendum the vampire is *not in combat*. During any No. The vampire is still in combat and the combat is still in the action. But the combat is handled in isolation of the action. And the blood hunt is handled in isolation of those facts. No action mods or reactions are allowed in combat. No combat cards are allowed in the blood hunt. Similarly, for "normal" diablerie: The vampire is still in the action. But the blood hunt is handled in isolation of the action. No action mods or reactions are allowed in the blood hunt. > given referendum there is the standard sequence of > terms/polling/resolve before things start up again, and in the blood > hunt everything else stops until those steps can be taken. But does > that mean the vampire is not considered to be "in combat" at the time? > It seems to me that either the blood hunt referendum following an > Amaranth happens during combat or it doesn't. If it happens during It happens in combat, as stated. > combat, then the blood-hunted vampire is burning during combat, right? He is burning during the blood hunt, which is handled in isolation. > The rules do not explicitly prevent you from playing combat cards > during the blood hunt referendum (or during any referendum, for that The rulings do, however, prevent combat cards from being played in the blood hunt, drawing a parallel from the rules on action mods and reactions in the blood hunt. > matter, but the blood hunt is the only one that can happen during > combat), and nothing in 6.5.6 indicates that combat "stops" > temporarily. It seems to me, like I stated above, that the two > criteria for Abandoning the Flesh or Reform Body are therefore met. > So I see that this ruling has been made, but I don't see why. Uniformity and designer intent. > And on a related note - if a vampire Amaranths and is not burned in > the blood hunt, is there still an opportunity (since combat is not > over) for the diablerized vampire to play Crimson Fury? Or does that > have to happen before the blood hunt? Before. [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <6f81fa2c.03050...@posting.google.com>, Eric Simon <vol...@yahoo.com> writes: >I have read this, I guess I just don't understand it. 6.5.6 clearly >states that the blood hunt is not an action, so action mods and >reaction cards cannot be played. I can understand that. It's not a combat either - so combat cards can't be played. Its timing may be important for other things - for everything pertaining to it, however, it stands alone. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3EBA8C7D...@white-wolf.com>... > Eric Simon wrote: > > I have read this, I guess I just don't understand it. 6.5.6 clearly > > states that the blood hunt is not an action, so action mods and > > reaction cards cannot be played. I can understand that. However, > > this clarification that states you cannot play COMBAT cards (which is > > not stated in 6.5.6) implies something beyond the "time freeze" that > > normally surrounds the blood hunt referendum - it implies that during > > the blood hunt referendum the vampire is *not in combat*. During any > > No. > The vampire is still in combat and the combat is still in the action. > But the combat is handled in isolation of the action. > And the blood hunt is handled in isolation of those facts. > No action mods or reactions are allowed in combat. > No combat cards are allowed in the blood hunt. > > Similarly, for "normal" diablerie: > The vampire is still in the action. > But the blood hunt is handled in isolation of the action. > No action mods or reactions are allowed in the blood hunt. I get it now. I think my stumbling block was missing this parallelism, the "x within y within z" bracketing. I was thinking that the blood hunt was a special exception and that seemed odd, but now I see how it matches the overall action/combat design. > > matter, but the blood hunt is the only one that can happen during > > combat), and nothing in 6.5.6 indicates that combat "stops" > > temporarily. It seems to me, like I stated above, that the two > > criteria for Abandoning the Flesh or Reform Body are therefore met. > > So I see that this ruling has been made, but I don't see why. > > Uniformity and designer intent. My initial perception of the mechanic was that it was disjointed, but I see the uniformity now, thank you. > > And on a related note - if a vampire Amaranths and is not burned in > > the blood hunt, is there still an opportunity (since combat is not > > over) for the diablerized vampire to play Crimson Fury? Or does that > > have to happen before the blood hunt? > > Before. Good to know.