Insomnia Part II

Well, here's the latest creation of my sleep-deprived brain. At least it keeps my mind of some other things... Brujah: Stanislaus 9 AUS CEL POT dom Prince of Warsaw. If Stanislaus casts a vote, all younger primogen can and must change their votes to agree with him. +1 bleed. Jurgen Braun 6 POT PRE cel Jurgen may attack any titled vampire as a D action. Candide 6 cel pot pre Candide may attack any vampire who has successfully bled you since you last untap phase as a +1 stealth D action. +1 bleed. Isabella 10 ANI DOM PRE cel pot Prince of Lisbon. Isabella may call a vote to give you control of a location as a +1 stealth action. Gangrel: Claire MacKenzie 9 ANI AUS FOR pre pro Prince of Edinborough. Claire has an additional +1 stealth when recruiting allies or employing retainers. Vladimir 10 FOR POT PRO ani ser If Vladimir is blocked, his hand damage is aggravated in the resulting combat. +1 hand damage. Petros 4 ani for tha Petros has an additional +1 stealth when performing actions that require Animalism. Lorenzo Garibaldi 7 FOR ani aus pro Primogen. Lorenzo may prevent a point of damage once each combat. Giovanni: Pietro Giovanni CEL NEC POT dom ani Pietro may employ a retainer from any other methuselah's ash heap as a +1 stealth D action. If the retainer requires a disciple to employ, treat it as if it had been played with the inferior level of that discipline. Alessandro Giovanni 7 DOM NEC POT All damage Alessandro deals to allies and retainers is considered aggravated. Romano Giovanni 6 DOM POT nec Romano may prevent a point of damage to one of his retainers once each combat. Beatrice Giovanni 5 NEC dom pot pre Beatrice has +1 intercept vs all Giovanni allies. Malkavians: Ina, Ringer of Bells 10 DOM OBF NEC aus Primogen. In may take a +1 stealth D action to burn a vampire in torpor. This is not considered diablerie. +1 bleed. Hadrian 6 OBF dom pot ser tha Prince of Florence. Hadrian may not cast votes. If your prey controls a ready Tremere, Hadrian has +1 bleed. Alexia 9 AUS CHI DOM pre Primogen. Alexia may spend a blood to cancel the effect of any obfuscate card played by a minion she is blocking or attempting to block. Yves 3 aus dom Younger vampires may not block Yves when she is performing non-bleed actions. Nosferatu: Quintus 10 FOR OBF SER ani dom pot Primogen. Quintus may not be targetted by D actions. Arkady 5 POT ani obf If Arkady burns a minion in combat, refill him to his full capacity. Ricardo 9 ANI POT aus cel obf Primogen. Ricardo inflicts and additional point of damage each strike when using a melee weapon. Once per combat, Ricardo has an optional press, only usable to continue combat. Hero 6 OBF POT ani pre Hero has an additional +1 stealth when hunting. Ravnos: Andras, Elder of Budapest 9 ANI FOR CHI obf pot 2 votes. Andras may play cards that normally require a prince or justicar. Pierre 5 ANI cel chi If Pierre is in combat, once during that combat at the beginning of a round he may switch a piece of his own equipment with a piece of the opposing minion's equipment. This ability is not useable if one or both of the combatants has no equipment. Igor 4 for chi If Igor equips with an equipment item that costs blood, he pays one less blood than normal. Sophia 7 CHI PRE ani for Sophia pays one less blood than normal for cards that require chimerstry. Toreador: Laszlo 9 AUS PRE THA cel nec Prince of Prague. Primogen may not block Laszlo. If your prey controls a ready Caitiff, Laszlo has +2 bleed. Sergei 8 AUS PRE cel for Prince of St. Petersburg. Sergei has +1 intercept vs all primogen. Andrea - The Compassionate 3 aus pre Andrea may not block a younger vampire. Erkki, Archon of Anneke 7 AUS CEL dom Blood hunts may not be called on Erkki. Erkki has +1 bleed if your prey controls a ready prince. Tremere: Hans Ulrich 7 NEC THA aus dom Primogen. Hans may not block an older Tremere. Danika 9 AUS DOM PRO obf tha Prince of Copenhagen. Danika does not tap when blocking primogen. Martin St Croix, Inquisitor 10 AUS DOM THA for pot Primogen. Martin does not tap when blocking an untitled vampire. Rosario, the Corrupted 5 AUS dom ser tha Rosario has -1 intercept vs. Followers of Set Ventrue: Marius 10 CHI DOM FOR PRE aus cel Primogen. Marius has +1 intercept against Inner Circle members. Mikhail 9 DOM PRE aus for obf Prince of Moscow. If Mikhail performs a successful bleed action, untap him at the end of your turn. Mikhail may pay one blood to gain +1 stealth when performing a political action. Nadia 8 DOM FOR pre tha Prince of Kiev. Nadia plays one less blood than normal when playing cards that require a prince or justicar. Ivan 4 FOR Ivan has +1 intercept vs all caitiff. -- Robert Granat Lackey of the Schnitzel Industry

Robert Granat wrote: > Well, here's the latest creation of my sleep-deprived brain. At least > it keeps my mind of some other things... > That's really great. It's great to see so many new fresh ideas for vampires. I see you took another DS look at things... This is precisely the sort of thing we need. I would still like to start a playtest game on JOL of some of these cards, and if you're interested, that makes five people; enough, I think, to get started. If you're interested, we can discuss it some more. Also, if anyone else is interested in playtesting, I tried starting something, but people stopped responding. I would like to start it up again, so please, drop me a line, and we'll get cracking! Now, for some comments: > Brujah: > > Stanislaus > 9 AUS CEL POT dom > Prince of Warsaw. If Stanislaus casts a vote, all younger primogen can and > must change their votes to agree with him. +1 bleed. > Awfully big. Perhaps this guy was designed with the Sabbat point allocation system in mind? Now, yes, it's only when Stanislaus calls a vote, so he isn't totally overpowered, but he's still pretty scary... It is a good thing he doesn't have Presence, however, which would make him way too scary. > Gangrel: > > Petros > 4 ani for tha > Petros has an additional +1 stealth when performing actions that require > Animalism. > This guy kinda scares me, too. Admittedly, there aren't that many Ani actions, but perhaps the Ani retainers might get a little odd? Funny, I've been trying to work out an ani/for/tha deck, myself. > Giovanni: > > Pietro Giovanni > CEL NEC POT dom ani > Pietro may employ a retainer from any other methuselah's ash heap as a > +1 stealth D action. If the retainer requires a disciple to employ, treat > it as if it had been played with the inferior level of that discipline. > Capacity... 9? > Alessandro Giovanni > 7 DOM NEC POT > All damage Alessandro deals to allies and retainers is considered aggravated. > Useless, because allies and retainers take aggravated damage as normal. After all, they can't go to torpor. Perhaps "Strikes against allies and retainers get an additional 1 damage"? > Malkavians: > > Hadrian > 6 OBF dom pot ser tha > Prince of Florence. Hadrian may not cast votes. If your prey controls a ready > Tremere, Hadrian has +1 bleed. > Nice. A lot of people seem to forget the power of Princedom, even beyond the votes. But, just to check: when you say "cast votes," do you mean "call votes" or "vote"? > Yves > 3 aus dom > Younger vampires may not block Yves when she is performing non-bleed actions. > Hmm. Not that great a power, considering her capacity, but still effective and scary. I'd compare to Andrea - the Compassionate below. > Nosferatu: > > Ricardo > 9 ANI POT aus cel obf > Primogen. Ricardo inflicts and additional point of damage each strike when > using a melee weapon. Once per combat, Ricardo has an optional press, only > usable to continue combat. > Dis guy iz buffed. And with both Auspex and Obfuscate, a great Fast Reaction/Hidden Lurker vampire. Instant equip with the Obfuscate. And Nosferatu can almost guarantee a close-range combat each and every time. I'd have to play with him to find out how useful he really is. > Ravnos: > > Andras, Elder of Budapest > 9 ANI FOR CHI obf pot > 2 votes. Andras may play cards that normally require a prince or justicar. > How about just "...normally require a prince." With this wording, I could argue that I could play Justicar or Inner Circle cards. > Igor > 4 for chi > If Igor equips with an equipment item that costs blood, he pays one less blood > than normal. Umm... is there any equipment that requires blood to equip? Pool, yes, blood, I can't think of any... > > Sophia > 7 CHI PRE ani for > Sophia pays one less blood than normal for cards that require chimerstry. > Oh, how beautiful and useful she is! > Toreador: > > Laszlo > 9 AUS PRE THA cel nec > Prince of Prague. Primogen may not block Laszlo. If your prey > controls a ready Caitiff, Laszlo has +2 bleed. > Hmm, a little Francois Villon syndrome, perhaps? He might be a little too powerful, but once again, I'm not sure. > Andrea - The Compassionate > 3 aus pre > Andrea may not block a younger vampire. > If we use Blythe Candeleria as a template, I'd give Andrea superior Presence or Auspex. > Erkki, Archon of Anneke > 7 AUS CEL dom > Blood hunts may not be called on Erkki. Erkki has +1 bleed if your prey > controls a ready prince. > Erkki? A Toreador named Erkki? I don't think a Toreador would be caught burned named Erkki... :) > Tremere: > Danika > 9 AUS DOM PRO obf tha > Prince of Copenhagen. Danika does not tap when blocking primogen. > > Martin St Croix, Inquisitor > 10 AUS DOM THA for pot > Primogen. Martin does not tap when blocking an untitled vampire. > Hmm... Lots of "no tap when blocking" stuff... Letter from Vienna will increase in popularity. > Ventrue: > > Marius > 10 CHI DOM FOR PRE aus cel > Primogen. Marius has +1 intercept against Inner Circle members. > Cool. Looks like fun. Heck, give him potence too, just for kicks. > Mikhail > 9 DOM PRE aus for obf > Prince of Moscow. If Mikhail performs a successful bleed action, untap him > at the end of your turn. Mikhail may pay one blood to gain +1 stealth when > performing a political action. > > Nadia > 8 DOM FOR pre tha > Prince of Kiev. Nadia plays one less blood than normal when playing cards > that require a prince or justicar. > > Ivan > 4 FOR > Ivan has +1 intercept vs all caitiff. > Seems a little weak for a 4. Then again, I could compare to Andrea and Yves. Maybe he's just right.

In article <01bc46ce$a1609540$3c10...@pennstate.cac.psu.edu>, John M. Baker <fau...@psu.edu> wrote: >That's really great. It's great to see so many new fresh ideas for >vampires. >I see you took another DS look at things... This is precisely the sort >of thing we need. I would still like to start a playtest game on JOL of >some >of these cards, and if you're interested, that makes five people; enough, >I think, to get started. If you're interested, we can discuss it some more. Hmmm... That actually sounds like a reasonably good idea, if other people are interested. >Now, for some comments: >> Stanislaus >> 9 AUS CEL POT dom >> Prince of Warsaw. If Stanislaus casts a vote, all younger primogen can >and >> must change their votes to agree with him. +1 bleed. >Awfully big. Perhaps this guy was designed with the Sabbat point allocation >system in mind? Now, yes, it's only when Stanislaus calls a vote, so he >isn't totally overpowered, but he's still pretty scary... It is a good >thing >he doesn't have Presence, however, which would make him way too >scary. In retrospect, I think he's the least balanced of the lot. I should probably ditch the bleed bonus and leave him as is. I think you may be misinterpreting his ability, though, it is supposed to work like Astrid Thomas'. What would be a better way to say it? >> Petros >> 4 ani for tha >> Petros has an additional +1 stealth when performing actions that require >> Animalism. >This guy kinda scares me, too. Admittedly, there aren't that many Ani >actions, but perhaps the Ani retainers might get a little odd? Funny, >I've been trying to work out an ani/for/tha deck, myself. Do you really think that's such a big deal? I hadn't noticed ppl running to block animalism actions really anyway. >> Pietro Giovanni >> 9 CEL NEC POT dom ani >> Pietro may employ a retainer from any other methuselah's ash heap as a >> +1 stealth D action. If the retainer requires a disciple to employ, >treat >> it as if it had been played with the inferior level of that discipline. >Capacity... 9? Indeed. >> Alessandro Giovanni >> 7 DOM NEC POT >> All damage Alessandro deals to allies and retainers is considered >aggravated. >Useless, because allies and retainers take aggravated damage as normal. >After all, they can't go to torpor. >Perhaps "Strikes against allies and retainers get an additional 1 damage"? Actually, he's supposed to be effective against the weird Giovanni allies and retainers. Still not that useful, but his three superiors make him worth it anyway. >> Malkavians: >> Hadrian >> 6 OBF dom pot ser tha >> Prince of Florence. Hadrian may not cast votes. If your prey controls a >ready >> Tremere, Hadrian has +1 bleed. >Nice. A lot of people seem to forget the power of Princedom, even beyond >the votes. But, just to check: when you say "cast votes," do you mean >"call votes" or "vote"? I meant the latter. What can I say? He has delusions of grandeur. >> Yves >> 3 aus dom >> Younger vampires may not block Yves when she is performing non-bleed >actions. >Hmm. Not that great a power, considering her capacity, but still effective >and >scary. I'd compare to Andrea - the Compassionate below. Do you think it's really a bad policy to have slight imbalances like this? Both are still useful, but it would be better I think if there were some conventions to follow. >> Ravnos: >> Andras, Elder of Budapest >> 9 ANI FOR CHI obf pot >> 2 votes. Andras may play cards that normally require a prince or >justicar. >How about just "...normally require a prince." With this wording, I could >argue that I could play Justicar or Inner Circle cards. Good point. That would definitely be better. >> Igor >> 4 for chi >> If Igor equips with an equipment item that costs blood, he pays one less >blood >> than normal. >Umm... is there any equipment that requires blood to equip? Pool, yes, >blood, I can't think of any... I think all the "locquipment" (sp? =) works like that. >> Toreador: >> Laszlo >> 9 AUS PRE THA cel nec >> Prince of Prague. Primogen may not block Laszlo. If your prey >> controls a ready Caitiff, Laszlo has +2 bleed. >Hmm, a little Francois Villon syndrome, perhaps? He might be a little >too powerful, but once again, I'm not sure. !! You really think so? And here I was worried that he was a little weak... >> Andrea - The Compassionate >> 3 aus pre >> Andrea may not block a younger vampire. >If we use Blythe Candeleria as a template, I'd give Andrea superior >Presence or Auspex. I'd rather not use Blythe as a template for anything, thank you. >> Erkki, Archon of Anneke >> 7 AUS CEL dom >> Blood hunts may not be called on Erkki. Erkki has +1 bleed if your prey >> controls a ready prince. >Erkki? A Toreador named Erkki? I don't think a Toreador would be >caught burned named Erkki... :) Well, he would if he were Finnish... =) >> Tremere: >> Danika >> 9 AUS DOM PRO obf tha >> Prince of Copenhagen. Danika does not tap when blocking primogen. >> >> Martin St Croix, Inquisitor >> 10 AUS DOM THA for pot >> Primogen. Martin does not tap when blocking an untitled vampire. >Hmm... Lots of "no tap when blocking" stuff... Letter from Vienna will >increase in popularity. Well, I was just continuing the trend started by Justine (who I think is the best of these three anyway). >> Ivan >> 4 FOR >> Ivan has +1 intercept vs all caitiff. >Seems a little weak for a 4. Then again, I could compare to Andrea and >Yves. Maybe he's just right. I think that superior fortitude is really powerful, especially for a vampire that small. But as I remarked above... [ quoted text not captured ]

"John M. Baker" <fau...@psu.edu> wrote: > > >Robert Granat wrote: > >> Well, here's the latest creation of my sleep-deprived brain. At least >> it keeps my mind of some other things... >> > >That's really great. It's great to see so many new fresh ideas for >vampires. >I see you took another DS look at things... This is precisely the sort >of thing we need. I would still like to start a playtest game on JOL of >some >of these cards, and if you're interested, that makes five people; enough, >I think, to get started. If you're interested, we can discuss it some more. <snip> What No Settites! > >> Alessandro Giovanni >> 7 DOM NEC POT >> All damage Alessandro deals to allies and retainers is considered >aggravated. >> >Useless, because allies and retainers take aggravated damage as normal. >After all, they can't go to torpor. >Perhaps "Strikes against allies and retainers get an additional 1 damage"? > No not Useless! What about Ambrosius the Ferryman and the Spiritual Protector? >> Sophia >> 7 CHI PRE ani for >> Sophia pays one less blood than normal for cards that require chimerstry. >> >Oh, how beautiful and useful she is! > I agree this would be a welcome addition to any Ravnos deck. This was a wonderfull post keep up the late night work. Rai...@mich.com

Robert Granat wrote: > > Well, here's the latest creation of my sleep-deprived brain. At least > it keeps my mind of some other things... > > Brujah: > > Stanislaus > 9 AUS CEL POT dom > Prince of Warsaw. If Stanislaus casts a vote, all younger primogen can and > must change their votes to agree with him. +1 bleed. I think this one's a bit overpowered. Maybe lose one pt. of disciplines, the +1 bleed, or the title. > Jurgen Braun > 6 POT PRE cel > Jurgen may attack any titled vampire as a D action. This is pretty good, though "any younger titled vampire" might be more balanced. > Candide > 6 cel pot pre > Candide may attack any vampire who has successfully bled you since you last > untap phase as a +1 stealth D action. +1 bleed. Lose the +1 bleed and give her two more points of disciplines. As is, pretty useless. > Isabella > 10 ANI DOM PRE cel pot > Prince of Lisbon. Isabella may call a vote to give you control of a location > as a +1 stealth action. All the out of clan disciplines probably balance out her ability. > Gangrel: > > Claire MacKenzie > 9 ANI AUS FOR pre pro > Prince of Edinborough. Claire has an additional +1 stealth when recruiting > allies or employing retainers. Fine. > Vladimir > 10 FOR POT PRO ani ser > If Vladimir is blocked, his hand damage is aggravated in the resulting > combat. +1 hand damage. This vampire is powerful, but he is balanced, IMO. > Petros > 4 ani for tha > Petros has an additional +1 stealth when performing actions that require > Animalism. This is fine, though probably useless. > Lorenzo Garibaldi > 7 FOR ani aus pro > Primogen. Lorenzo may prevent a point of damage once each combat. Good; I like this. > Giovanni: > > Pietro Giovanni > 9 CEL NEC POT dom ani > Pietro may employ a retainer from any other methuselah's ash heap as a > +1 stealth D action. If the retainer requires a disciple to employ, treat > it as if it had been played with the inferior level of that discipline. You should probably add the sentence: "Pay blood/pool costs as normal." > Alessandro Giovanni > 7 DOM NEC POT > All damage Alessandro deals to allies and retainers is considered aggravated. Slightly useful ability, but discipline combinations necessary for the clan. > Romano Giovanni > 6 DOM POT nec > Romano may prevent a point of damage to one of his retainers once each combat. Again, ability is near useless, but the Giovanni need vampires with good combo's of in-clan disciplines. > Beatrice Giovanni > 5 NEC dom pot pre > Beatrice has +1 intercept vs all Giovanni allies. Again, a good balanced vampire with an interesting 0-point ability. > Malkavians: > > Ina, Ringer of Bells > 10 DOM OBF NEC aus > Primogen. Ina may take a +1 stealth D action to burn a vampire in torpor. > This is not considered diablerie. +1 bleed. Lose the title and the +1 stealth on the action. > Hadrian > 6 OBF dom pot ser tha > Prince of Florence. Hadrian may not cast votes. If your prey controls a ready > Tremere, Hadrian has +1 bleed. This probably doesn't need to be said, but his weird ability (votes/no votes) is only worth the trouble if there is a Praxis Siezure: Florence card. > Alexia > 9 AUS CHI DOM pre > Primogen. Alexia may spend a blood to cancel the effect of any obfuscate > card played by a minion she is blocking or attempting to block. Should say "Once per turn, Alexia may..." > Yves > 3 aus dom > Younger vampires may not block Yves when she is performing non-bleed actions. Nice. > Nosferatu: > > Quintus > 10 FOR OBF SER ani dom pot > Primogen. Quintus may not be targetted by D actions. Weird, but good. > Arkady > 5 POT ani obf > If Arkady burns a minion in combat, refill him to his full capacity. Pretty cool. > Ricardo > 9 ANI POT aus cel obf > Primogen. Ricardo inflicts and additional point of damage each strike when > using a melee weapon. Once per combat, Ricardo has an optional press, only > usable to continue combat. Rephrase to "+1 damage with melee weapons". > Hero > 6 OBF POT ani pre > Hero has an additional +1 stealth when hunting. Good. > Ravnos: > > Andras, Elder of Budapest > 9 ANI FOR CHI obf pot > 2 votes. Andras may play cards that normally require a prince or justicar. Unless you intend for him to be able to override the Non-Camarilla vampires restriction with this, say so. E.g., Archon requires P/J, but NC's can't call it. Can Andras? > Pierre > 5 ANI cel chi > If Pierre is in combat, once during that combat at the beginning of a round > he may switch a piece of his own equipment with a piece of the opposing > minion's equipment. This ability is not useable if one or both of the > combatants has no equipment. How 'bout: "Pierre may steal equipment as a strike." Not overpowerful, and cuts down on text. > Igor > 4 for chi > If Igor equips with an equipment item that costs blood, he pays one less blood > than normal. Give him an out-of-clan at inferior, since his ability only works with loquipment. > Sophia > 7 CHI PRE ani for > Sophia pays one less blood than normal for cards that require chimerstry. Reduce PRE to pre, since almost all CHI cards cost blood. > Toreador: > > Laszlo > 9 AUS PRE THA cel nec > Prince of Prague. Primogen may not block Laszlo. If your prey > controls a ready Caitiff, Laszlo has +2 bleed. Reduce bleed bonus to +1. > Sergei > 8 AUS PRE cel for > Prince of St. Petersburg. Sergei has +1 intercept vs all primogen. Add "...all Primogen and does not tap to block Primogen." > Andrea - The Compassionate > 3 aus pre > Andrea may not block a younger vampire. Add an out-of-clan at inferior. > Erkki, Archon of Anneke > 7 AUS CEL dom > Blood hunts may not be called on Erkki. Erkki has +1 bleed if your prey > controls a ready prince. Looks OK. > Tremere: > > Hans Ulrich > 7 NEC THA aus dom > Primogen. Hans may not block an older Tremere. OK. > Danika > 9 AUS DOM PRO obf tha > Prince of Copenhagen. Danika does not tap when blocking primogen. Fine. > Martin St Croix, Inquisitor > 10 AUS DOM THA for pot > Primogen. Martin does not tap when blocking an untitled vampire. Lose 1 pt. of disciplines. > Rosario, the Corrupted > 5 AUS dom ser tha > Rosario has -1 intercept vs. Followers of Set Good. > Ventrue: > > Marius > 10 CHI DOM FOR PRE aus cel > Primogen. Marius has +1 intercept against Inner Circle members. Fine. > Mikhail > 9 DOM PRE aus for obf > Prince of Moscow. If Mikhail performs a successful bleed action, untap him > at the end of your turn. Mikhail may pay one blood to gain +1 stealth when > performing a political action. Lose either the aus or the obf. Rephrase "Once each turn, Mikhail may..." > Nadia > 8 DOM FOR pre tha > Prince of Kiev. Nadia plays one less blood than normal when playing cards > that require a prince or justicar. Good. > Ivan > 4 FOR > Ivan has +1 intercept vs all caitiff. I know he'll be the first 4 with FOR, but he really should have dom or aus. James -- James E. Hamblin je...@cornell.edu "There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. ... Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender." -- G'Kar, Babylon 5: "Z'ha'dum"

rag...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Robert Granat) writes: >>> Sophia >>> 7 CHI PRE ani for >>> Sophia pays one less blood than normal for cards that require chimerstry. >>Reduce PRE to pre, since almost all CHI cards cost blood. >That's probably reasonable, but so far it's a hung jury. What!? Reduce the skills because one of them sucks already? I don't follow that logic. Reducing the cost of a discipline's cards is surely only a 1-point advantage. >>> Andrea - The Compassionate >>> 3 aus pre >>> Andrea may not block a younger vampire. >>Add an out-of-clan at inferior. >Is it really that nasty a penalty? No. "older" would warrant a skill, "younger" does not. >>> Martin St Croix, Inquisitor >>> 10 AUS DOM THA for pot >>> Primogen. Martin does not tap when blocking an untitled vampire. >>Lose 1 pt. of disciplines. >Another hotly contested one... 8+0.5+2 = 10.5, So he's weak already (by half a point). He doesn't need to lose a skill. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | You must first learn to http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | annoy before you're allowed Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | to torment.

This is really interesting. LSJ complains via e-mail that most of these are underpowered. You seem to think that a lot need to be toned down. I'm not quite sure what to make of this, but some good suggestions all around. Thanks, guys. In article <3351A7...@cornell.edu>, James Hamblin <je...@cornell.edu> wrote: >Robert Granat wrote: >> Well, here's the latest creation of my sleep-deprived brain. At least >> it keeps my mind of some other things... >> >> Brujah: >> Stanislaus >> 9 AUS CEL POT dom >> Prince of Warsaw. If Stanislaus casts a vote, all younger primogen can and >> must change their votes to agree with him. +1 bleed. >I think this one's a bit overpowered. Maybe lose one pt. of >disciplines, the +1 bleed, or the title. I agree on this one. I'd chuck the bleed bonus by preference. >> Jurgen Braun >> 6 POT PRE cel >> Jurgen may attack any titled vampire as a D action. >This is pretty good, though "any younger titled vampire" might be more >balanced. That would make him largely useless though. >> Candide >> 6 cel pot pre >> Candide may attack any vampire who has successfully bled you since you last >> untap phase as a +1 stealth D action. +1 bleed. >Lose the +1 bleed and give her two more points of disciplines. As is, >pretty useless. I'd say she compares pretty favorably with Adrianne. >> Isabella >> 10 ANI DOM PRE cel pot >> Prince of Lisbon. Isabella may call a vote to give you control of a location >> as a +1 stealth action. >All the out of clan disciplines probably balance out her ability. A hotly contested design. I should start tallying votes. >> Pietro Giovanni >> 9 CEL NEC POT dom ani >> Pietro may employ a retainer from any other methuselah's ash heap as a >> +1 stealth D action. If the retainer requires a disciple to employ, treat >> it as if it had been played with the inferior level of that discipline. >You should probably add the sentence: "Pay blood/pool costs as normal." Good suggestion. >> Malkavians: >> Ina, Ringer of Bells >> 10 DOM OBF NEC aus >> Primogen. Ina may take a +1 stealth D action to burn a vampire in torpor. >> This is not considered diablerie. +1 bleed. >Lose the title and the +1 stealth on the action. You think it's really that powerful? I can't say that I agree with you here. What is your reasoning? >> Hadrian >> 6 OBF dom pot ser tha >> Prince of Florence. Hadrian may not cast votes. If your prey controls a ready >> Tremere, Hadrian has +1 bleed. >This probably doesn't need to be said, but his weird ability (votes/no >votes) is only worth the trouble if there is a Praxis Siezure: Florence >card. It's good for using the prince-only cards. >> Alexia >> 9 AUS CHI DOM pre >> Primogen. Alexia may spend a blood to cancel the effect of any obfuscate >> card played by a minion she is blocking or attempting to block. >Should say "Once per turn, Alexia may..." This seems to be a common suggestion. Ayes have it. >> Ravnos: >> Andras, Elder of Budapest >> 9 ANI FOR CHI obf pot >> 2 votes. Andras may play cards that normally require a prince or justicar. >Unless you intend for him to be able to override the Non-Camarilla >vampires restriction with this, say so. E.g., Archon requires P/J, but >NC's can't call it. Can Andras? Yes, that's the point of his ability. It's been pointed out to me that I probably want to say prince only, since otherwise he can use justicar/inner circle cards, which I don't want. >> Pierre >> 5 ANI cel chi >> If Pierre is in combat, once during that combat at the beginning of a round >> he may switch a piece of his own equipment with a piece of the opposing >> minion's equipment. This ability is not useable if one or both of the >> combatants has no equipment. >How 'bout: "Pierre may steal equipment as a strike." Not overpowerful, >and cuts down on text. Heh. I guess I prefer the weirder ability with more card text. Besides, Lucian already has that ability. Originality, I say! =) >> Igor >> 4 for chi >> If Igor equips with an equipment item that costs blood, he pays one less blood >> than normal. >Give him an out-of-clan at inferior, since his ability only works with >loquipment. Ok, the ayes have it. >> Sophia >> 7 CHI PRE ani for >> Sophia pays one less blood than normal for cards that require chimerstry. >Reduce PRE to pre, since almost all CHI cards cost blood. That's probably reasonable, but so far it's a hung jury. >> Toreador: >> Laszlo >> 9 AUS PRE THA cel nec >> Prince of Prague. Primogen may not block Laszlo. If your prey >> controls a ready Caitiff, Laszlo has +2 bleed. >Reduce bleed bonus to +1. I agree. >> Sergei >> 8 AUS PRE cel for >> Prince of St. Petersburg. Sergei has +1 intercept vs all primogen. >Add "...all Primogen and does not tap to block Primogen." That would address LSJ's complaint as well I think. Good, thanks. >> Andrea - The Compassionate >> 3 aus pre >> Andrea may not block a younger vampire. >Add an out-of-clan at inferior. Is it really that nasty a penalty? >> Martin St Croix, Inquisitor >> 10 AUS DOM THA for pot >> Primogen. Martin does not tap when blocking an untitled vampire. >Lose 1 pt. of disciplines. Another hotly contested one... >> Mikhail >> 9 DOM PRE aus for obf >> Prince of Moscow. If Mikhail performs a successful bleed action, untap him >> at the end of your turn. Mikhail may pay one blood to gain +1 stealth when >> performing a political action. >Lose either the aus or the obf. Rephrase "Once each turn, Mikhail >may..." I don't agree with the former, but I do with the later. >> Ivan >> 4 FOR >> Ivan has +1 intercept vs all caitiff. >I know he'll be the first 4 with FOR, but he really should have dom or >aus. Maybe an out-of-clan would be better? >-- > >James E. Hamblin >je...@cornell.edu Thanks for all the commentary... I really appreciate it. ---- [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <5ilj4r$o...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, rag...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Robert Granat) writes: > >Brujah: > >Stanislaus >9 AUS CEL POT dom >Prince of Warsaw. If Stanislaus casts a vote, all younger primogen can and >must change their votes to agree with him. +1 bleed. Seems ok. What is the average age of a Primo? 9 or lower? > >Jurgen Braun >6 POT PRE cel >Jurgen may attack any titled vampire as a D action. > >Candide >6 cel pot pre >Candide may attack any vampire who has successfully bled you since you last >untap phase as a +1 stealth D action. +1 bleed. The above look good. > >Isabella >10 ANI DOM PRE cel pot >Prince of Lisbon. Isabella may call a vote to give you control of a location >as a +1 stealth action. Seems kind of powerful of an ability. Get her out and you can grab all the Hunting grounds? Even if she only lasts two votes you could dominate the game if they were HGs or any other extremely useful location. > >Gangrel: > >Claire MacKenzie >9 ANI AUS FOR pre pro >Prince of Edinborough. Claire has an additional +1 stealth when recruiting >allies or employing retainers. > >Vladimir >10 FOR POT PRO ani ser >If Vladimir is blocked, his hand damage is aggravated in the resulting >combat. +1 hand damage. > >Petros >4 ani for tha >Petros has an additional +1 stealth when performing actions that require >Animalism. > >Lorenzo Garibaldi >7 FOR ani aus pro >Primogen. Lorenzo may prevent a point of damage once each combat. The above look alright. > >Giovanni: > >Pietro Giovanni >CEL NEC POT dom ani >Pietro may employ a retainer from any other methuselah's ash heap as a >+1 stealth D action. If the retainer requires a disciple to employ, treat >it as if it had been played with the inferior level of that discipline. I don't know if this guy should be Ravnos or Giovanni. Giovanni, it fits them better. Maybe a good idea for the Ravnos would be one who can take the equipment from another Meth's ashheap or library? Maybe that would be too poweful? > >Alessandro Giovanni >7 DOM NEC POT >All damage Alessandro deals to allies and retainers is considered aggravated. Only useful against two cards, and how big of a threat are those two? Still, excellent skill set, I'd pay 7 for him. > >Romano Giovanni >6 DOM POT nec >Romano may prevent a point of damage to one of his retainers once each >combat. > >Beatrice Giovanni >5 NEC dom pot pre >Beatrice has +1 intercept vs all Giovanni allies. The two directly above have great Gio style skill sets. > >Malkavians: > >Ina, Ringer of Bells >10 DOM OBF NEC aus >Primogen. In may take a +1 stealth D action to burn a vampire in torpor. >This is not considered diablerie. +1 bleed. Maybe a little too useful. Have to play with him to find out. > >Hadrian >6 OBF dom pot ser tha >Prince of Florence. Hadrian may not cast votes. If your prey controls a >ready >Tremere, Hadrian has +1 bleed. > Nice angle. Do you mean call votes or cast votes. Either way its a good Malk viewpoint. >Alexia >9 AUS CHI DOM pre >Primogen. Alexia may spend a blood to cancel the effect of any obfuscate >card played by a minion she is blocking or attempting to block. > >Yves >3 aus dom >Younger vampires may not block Yves when she is performing non-bleed actions. Good approach to these two. Yves is probably just the right size to be annoying and not too poewrful. > >Nosferatu: > >Quintus >10 FOR OBF SER ani dom pot >Primogen. Quintus may not be targetted by D actions. > >Arkady >5 POT ani obf >If Arkady burns a minion in combat, refill him to his full capacity. > >Ricardo >9 ANI POT aus cel obf >Primogen. Ricardo inflicts and additional point of damage each strike when >using a melee weapon. Once per combat, Ricardo has an optional press, only >usable to continue combat. The above look fine. Ricardo may be a bit too powerful with the optional press. > >Hero >6 OBF POT ani pre >Hero has an additional +1 stealth when hunting. Fine > >Ravnos: > >Andras, Elder of Budapest >9 ANI FOR CHI obf pot >2 votes. Andras may play cards that normally require a prince or justicar. I agree with the other post. Limit this to Prince. Or, take the Sabbat route and allow him to burn an additional blood to attempt an action that only a Prince or Justicar can use. > >Pierre >5 ANI cel chi >If Pierre is in combat, once during that combat at the beginning of a round >he may switch a piece of his own equipment with a piece of the opposing >minion's equipment. This ability is not useable if one or both of the >combatants has no equipment. Ouch, Ravnos revenge. I like it. > >Igor >4 for chi >If Igor equips with an equipment item that costs blood, he pays one less >blood >than normal. Not too much equipment that has a blood cost. Maybe this should be pool cost. > >Sophia >7 CHI PRE ani for >Sophia pays one less blood than normal for cards that require chimerstry. Finally! > >Toreador: > >Laszlo >9 AUS PRE THA cel nec >Prince of Prague. Primogen may not block Laszlo. If your prey >controls a ready Caitiff, Laszlo has +2 bleed. Overly useful? Maybe a +1 bleed. > >Sergei >8 AUS PRE cel for >Prince of St. Petersburg. Sergei has +1 intercept vs all primogen. > >Andrea - The Compassionate >3 aus pre >Andrea may not block a younger vampire. > These look good. Andrea is a definite anti-skill card recipient. >Erkki, Archon of Anneke >7 AUS CEL dom >Blood hunts may not be called on Erkki. Erkki has +1 bleed if your prey >controls a ready prince. Ok. > >Tremere: > >Hans Ulrich >7 NEC THA aus dom >Primogen. Hans may not block an older Tremere. > Now thats a good Tremere penalty. >Danika >9 AUS DOM PRO obf tha >Prince of Copenhagen. Danika does not tap when blocking primogen. > >Martin St Croix, Inquisitor >10 AUS DOM THA for pot >Primogen. Martin does not tap when blocking an untitled vampire. > >Rosario, the Corrupted >5 AUS dom ser tha >Rosario has -1 intercept vs. Followers of Set BTW, need to add some Followers of Set. The above look quesionable (except for Rosario). Have to try them out to be sure, though. > >Ventrue: > >Marius >10 CHI DOM FOR PRE aus cel >Primogen. Marius has +1 intercept against Inner Circle members. An excellent ability, fits their clan. Again, useful yet not overpowering. > >Mikhail >9 DOM PRE aus for obf >Prince of Moscow. If Mikhail performs a successful bleed action, untap him >at the end of your turn. Mikhail may pay one blood to gain +1 stealth when >performing a political action. > >Nadia >8 DOM FOR pre tha >Prince of Kiev. Nadia plays one less blood than normal when playing cards >that require a prince or justicar. The above pass inspection. > >Ivan >4 FOR >Ivan has +1 intercept vs all caitiff. > > Another useful yet limiting power. Excellent job. Andras and Isabella are my main concerns. Isabella looks way to useful. I could throw all location cards with her and let you pay for them. With a Minion Tap/Blood gainer this would be really ugly. Chance "If you think you can, you're right. If you think you can't, you're right!" -- Henry Ford

Robert Granat wrote: > > >> Petros > >> 4 ani for tha > >> Petros has an additional +1 stealth when performing actions that require > >> Animalism. > Do you really think that's such a big deal? I hadn't noticed ppl running > to block animalism actions really anyway. Hi Grant well it would serve well for a Sheppards Innocence when your opponent has 4 or 5 Raptors. Errol T [ quoted text not captured ]

Robert Granat wrote: > > Well, here's the latest creation of my sleep-deprived brain. At least > it keeps my mind of some other things... > Yves > 3 aus dom > Younger vampires may not block Yves when she is performing non-bleed actions. > Hi Grant I would be very careful when granting weenies, Unblockablity this little danger can do alot of damage in a vote deck, combine her with the Heidalberg Castle and getting Equip out in a heavy intercept enviro just got a little to easy, I just feel that she needs a penalty for the ability. Errol T

[ quoted text not captured ] Have to agree with Errol here. A couple (or so) skill cards later, and this little vamp can't be blocked by more than half the available vamps in the game. A vote deck is the obvious home for this vamp, but I do have a Settite deck that would consider this vampire very very seriously (though it would require serious deck changes). Consider giving Yves no disciplines and making him (her?) a two capacity vampire. Jaysen

In article <5ilj4r$o...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, rag...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Robert Granat) wrote: > Candide > 6 cel pot pre > Candide may attack any vampire who has successfully bled you since you last > untap phase as a +1 stealth D action. +1 bleed. Add CEL or POT > Isabella > 10 ANI DOM PRE cel pot > Prince of Lisbon. Isabella may call a vote to give you control of a location > as a +1 stealth action. How about PRE CEL POT ani dom, it is a 10 cap after all > Alessandro Giovanni > 7 DOM NEC POT > All damage Alessandro deals to allies and retainers is considered aggravated. Ought to cost 6 > Igor > 4 for chi > If Igor equips with an equipment item that costs blood, he pays one less blood > than normal. Ought to have ani too. > Andrea - The Compassionate > 3 aus pre > Andrea may not block a younger vampire. raise cap. to 4 and add CEL > Hans Ulrich > 7 NEC THA aus dom > Primogen. Hans may not block an older Tremere. Should have AUS. > Ivan > 4 FOR > Ivan has +1 intercept vs all caitiff. Could use another disc

Many Good ideas, though I question whether or not I'd actually want to encounter them across the table (brrr). I may have changed some of the descriptive text attached to a Vampire, check and see.. > Well, here's the latest creation of my sleep-deprived brain. At least > it keeps my mind of some other things... > > Brujah: > > Stanislaus > 9 AUS CEL POT dom > Prince of Warsaw. If Stanislaus casts a vote, all younger primogen can and > must change their votes to agree with him. +1 bleed. Brujah with Superior Auspex? I'd go with "aus pre" instead, otherwise good. > Jurgen Braun > 6 POT PRE cel > Jurgen may attack any titled vampire as a (D) action. Looks good, with a quote of something like "fools rush in where others fear to tread" > Candide > 6 cel pot pre > Candide may attack any vampire that successfully bled you since your last > untap phase as a +1 stealth D action. +1 bleed. Give her CEL, only the slow get their hands caught in the cookie jar. I'd also change +1 bleed to +1 hand damage instead. > Isabella > 10 ANI DOM PRE cel pot > Prince of Lisbon. Isabella may call a vote to gain control of any location > as a +1 stealth action. Is Isabella Brujah? No self respecting Brujah would get ANI, maybe change the disciplines to DOM PRE CEL pot ani (or maybe minor serpentis instead of animalism) To appease some you might change text on the location to read either as Unique or Non-Unique location reducing the scope of her ability some. > Gangrel: > > Claire MacKenzie > 9 ANI AUS FOR pre pro > Prince of Edinborough. Claire has an additional +1 stealth when recruiting > allies or employing retainers. What's with the AUSpex? It works for me, but I'd be inclined to change AUS to CHI just because of personal preference. > Vladimir > 10 FOR POT PRO ani ser > If Vladimir is blocked, his hand damage is aggravated in the resulting > combat. +1 hand damage. Pretty tough guy, I'd make him a Primogen to boot! > Petros > 4 ani for tha > Petros has an additional +1 stealth when performing actions that require > Animalism. Sure, I suppose. Make him Petros "Illiana's Pup" that would explain why he has Thaumaturgy (pardon the spelling). > Lorenzo Garibaldi > 7 FOR ani aus pro > Primogen. Lorenzo may prevent a point of damage once each combat. Works for me > Giovanni: > > Pietro Giovanni > CEL NEC POT dom ani > Pietro may employ a retainer from any other methuselah's ash heap as a > +1 stealth D action. If the retainer requires a disciple to employ, treat > it as if it had been played with the inferior level of that discipline. I'd change the text to "any methuselah's ash heap at +1 stealth" so that it would include his own. Change "ani" to "for", trying to keep it out of the family. I agree that errata should read that blood costs should be paid as normal. > Alessandro Giovanni > 7 DOM NEC POT > All damage Alessandro deals to allies and retainers is considered aggravated. Might change to "Allies and Retainers in combat with Alessandro take an additional point of damage that is non-preventable". Which is a pretty cool ability. > Romano Giovanni > 6 DOM POT nec > Romano may prevent a point of damage to one of his retainers once each combat. Sure, works for me > Beatrice Giovanni > 5 NEC dom pot pre > Beatrice has +1 intercept vs all Giovanni allies. Sure, why not. > Malkavians: > > Ina, Ringer of Bells > 10 DOM OBF NEC aus > Primogen. In may take a +1 stealth D action to burn a vampire in torpor. > This is not considered diablerie. +1 bleed. Sounds like a Malkavian Archon? I'd agree to lose the title, and maybe suggest the following "Ina may take an action to burn a vampire in torpor at +1 stealth. Blood hunts may not be called on Ina. +2 bleed." The extra bleed puts her in reach of an Archon Investigation, though is a bitter pill to swallow. Still better than getting +1 stealth on all of her actions, geez.. > Hadrian > 6 OBF dom pot ser tha > Prince of Florence. Hadrian may not cast votes. If your prey controls a ready > Tremere, Hadrian has +1 bleed. Maybe change to "Hadrian may not call Political Actions"? Otherwise, why have a Prince that cannot vote? Or am I missing something? > Alexia > 9 AUS CHI DOM pre > Primogen. Alexia may spend a blood to cancel the effect of any obfuscate > card played by a minion she is blocking or attempting to block. I get the idea, though I think the blood being spent should match the blood paid on the card (or 1 + cost of card), with the Sabbat expansion out now maybe give Superior Dementate instead of Chimistry. > Yves > 3 aus dom > Younger vampires may not block Yves when she is performing non-bleed actions. I like it > Nosferatu: > > Quintus > 10 FOR OBF SER ani dom pot > Primogen. Quintus may not be targetted by D actions. Change to ANI ser, otherwise okay. > Arkady > 5 POT ani obf > If Arkady burns a minion in combat, refill him to his full capacity. Nifty! Change wording to "refill Arkady to full capacity". Gotta keep the rules lawyers down. > Ricardo > 9 ANI POT aus cel obf > Primogen. Ricardo inflicts and additional point of damage each strike when > using a melee weapon. Once per combat, Ricardo has an optional press, only > usable to continue combat. Rephrase to "+1 damage with melee weapons". Maybe change aus to pro. > Hero > 6 OBF POT ani pre > Hero has an additional +1 stealth when hunting. I like it. > Ravnos: > > Andras, Elder of Budapest > 9 ANI FOR CHI obf pot > 2 votes. Andras may play cards that normally require a prince or justicar. Nifty. To stir the soup you could make him 10 capacity and allow him to "Andras may use cards that normally require a Prince or Arch-Bishop". Heck, even make him the first Ravnos Anti-Tribue. > Pierre > 5 ANI cel chi > If Pierre is in combat, once during that combat at the beginning of a round > he may switch a piece of his own equipment with a piece of the opposing > minion's equipment. This ability is not useable if one or both of the > combatants has no equipment. Text: "Once each combat, Pierre may swap equipment with an opposing minion as a Strike. Not usable if either minion has no equipment." > Igor > 4 for chi > If Igor equips with an equipment item that costs blood, he pays one less blood > than normal. I like. "Igor spends one less blood than normal when equipping". > Sophia > 7 CHI PRE ani for > Sophia pays one less blood than normal for cards that require chimerstry. I like the concept, change disciplines to CHI FOR ani pre. I'd think that Fortitude would be her Forte! > Toreador: > > Laszlo > 9 AUS PRE THA cel nec > Prince of Prague. Primogen may not block Laszlo. If your prey > controls a ready Caitiff, Laszlo has +2 bleed. Big man on campus, works for me. > Sergei > 8 AUS PRE cel for > Prince of St. Petersburg. Sergei has +1 intercept vs all primogen. text: "Sergei has +1 intercept when blocking primogen"; moot point I suppose > Andrea - The Compassionate > 3 aus pre > Andrea may not block a younger vampire. Cool, leave as is or give superior Auspex. > Erkki, Archon of Anneke > 7 AUS CEL dom > Blood hunts may not be called on Erkki. Erkki has +1 bleed if your prey > controls a ready prince. Sure, works for me. > Tremere: > > Hans Ulrich > 7 NEC THA aus dom > Primogen. Hans may not block an older Tremere. Wierd, though I suppose if Ian can have Obeah that Hans can have Necromancy. > Danika > 9 AUS DOM PRO obf tha > Prince of Copenhagen. Danika does not tap when blocking primogen. Currently all Tremere above 6 capacity have superior THA, which should be how it is. Maybe change disciplines to THA AUS DOM obf pre > Martin St Croix, Inquisitor > 10 AUS DOM THA for pot > Primogen. Martin does not tap when blocking an untitled vampire. Seems weak, for fun I might change it to lose the title and read "Martin does not tap when blocking Minions". Minions may attack Martin as a +1 stealth (D) action. > Rosario, the Corrupted > 5 AUS dom ser tha > Rosario has -1 intercept vs. Followers of Set Sure, go to town > Ventrue: > > Marius > 10 CHI DOM FOR PRE aus cel > Primogen. Marius has +1 intercept against Inner Circle members. Ventrue don't have the imagination to use Chimistry! Maybe change to DOM FOR PRE aus cel tha: Primogen, Marius has +1 intercept when blocking Inner Circle members. > Mikhail > 9 DOM PRE aus for obf > Prince of Moscow. If Mikhail performs a successful bleed action, untap him > at the end of your turn. Mikhail may pay one blood to gain +1 stealth when > performing a political action. James Hamblin wrote "Lose either the aus or the obf. Rephrase "Once each turn, Mikhail may...". I disagree, it should work as is under the "no repeat action clause". > Nadia > 8 DOM FOR pre tha > Prince of Kiev. Nadia plays one less blood than normal when playing cards > that require a prince or justicar. Sure, works for me > Ivan > 4 FOR > Ivan has +1 intercept vs all caitiff. I like this guy as is. Kiss of Ra is to nasty to give this guy any more. Though, truth to tell I'd rather his text read "may not block older vampires" which would encourage the use of skill cards to make him nastier. But hey, it's your card and it works. > -- > Robert Granat > Lackey of the Schnitzel Industry Great ideas, keep them coming (we do have far too much time on our hands you realize). -- Bernie

Here two Sabbat vampires for a change: Lamia (Brujah Antitribu) Cap. 7, Dis.: POT PRE CEL Lamia's strikes cannot be dodged by minions without superior Celerity. Morgana, the Unseen (Lasombra) Cap 10, Dis.: OBT OBF DOM POT cel Morgana gets +1 stealth on any non-bleed action. She cannot be the target of (D) actions by minions without superior Auspex. Werner

Werner Arend wrote: > > Here two Sabbat vampires for a change: > > Lamia (Brujah Antitribu) > Cap. 7, Dis.: POT PRE CEL > Lamia's strikes cannot be dodged by minions without superior Celerity. This one's pretty good. Her ability is not too excessive, what with Immortal Grapple being out there. > Morgana, the Unseen (Lasombra) > Cap 10, Dis.: OBT OBF DOM POT cel > Morgana gets +1 stealth on any non-bleed action. She cannot be the target > of (D) actions by minions without superior Auspex. Do the Lasombra _really_ need another 10? This is what makes them nearly unplayable. I'd rather see: Gregor 5 POT OBT dom This would go a long way toward helping the Lasombra not suck so much. James

In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.97042...@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>, Werner Arend <kii...@commlink.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de> writes: > >Lamia (Brujah Antitribu) >Cap. 7, Dis.: POT PRE CEL >Lamia's strikes cannot be dodged by minions without superior Celerity. > >Morgana, the Unseen (Lasombra) >Cap 10, Dis.: OBT OBF DOM POT cel >Morgana gets +1 stealth on any non-bleed action. She cannot be the target >of (D) actions by minions without superior Auspex. > >Werner > Way I see it, Morgana is a little too powerful. 2 abilities and 9 disciplines. Make her smaller and weaker. Lamia seems weak enough. [ quoted text not captured ]