[LSJ] Tyler

Does the special of Tyler one of the new Brujah primogen fall under the NRA rules ? Or can she just diabelerize everything thats in torpor on the table. Sander

[ quoted text not captured ] All minions fall under all the rules. The action "Encounter vampire in torpor to diablerize" is not restricted by the NRA, so the NRA doesn't restrict it in Tyler's case, either. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ wrote: > Sander wrote: > >>Does the special of Tyler one of the new Brujah primogen fall under the >>NRA rules ? Or can she just diabelerize everything thats in torpor on >>the table. > > > All minions fall under all the rules. > > The action "Encounter vampire in torpor to diablerize" is not restricted > by the NRA, so the NRA doesn't restrict it in Tyler's case, either. Does that mean that when Tyler is made an archon, she can rush, beat a vampire to torpor, amaranth him, untap and repeat the whole thing again, because no card gives her these abilities ??? Isn't that a bit strong ? Sander

[ quoted text not captured ] If she has some way beat each one into torpor, yes. > Isn't that a bit strong ? Possibly. I recommend voting down the Archon referendum, using Obedience, ending combat, running away, preventing damage, scratching back with Claws, or any of a number of things that will foil her loop. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > > Isn't that a bit strong ? > > Possibly. I recommend voting down the Archon referendum, using Obedience, > ending combat, running away, preventing damage, scratching back with > Claws, or any of a number of things that will foil her loop. > I've built this deck. It's far from being broken, indeed it's too weak. Though it's really funny to play. The card you are looking for is Rowan Ring/sengir/ivory and enough amaranth and fortitude to keep rocking. Anyway, this deck relays mainly on bringing out Pascek, Tyler (normally due to Minion taps, because there is no way to bleed bounce or other kind of serious pool gaining) and prepare for the vote to get passed. Will of the council, awes, oxford university are handy, but once she becomes archon, be ready to beat enough votes off of the table in order to keep the archon title. It's one of the slowest decks I've ever played with. though I even managed to achieve 2 vp in a game. Got wipped off by too many common strategies... > -- > LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. > Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Stelios

Stelios wrote: > >> >> > Isn't that a bit strong ? >> >> Possibly. I recommend voting down the Archon referendum, using Obedience, >> ending combat, running away, preventing damage, scratching back with >> Claws, or any of a number of things that will foil her loop. >> > I've built this deck. It's far from being broken, indeed it's too weak. > Though it's really funny to play. The card you are looking for is Rowan > Ring/sengir/ivory and enough amaranth and fortitude to keep rocking. Anyway, > this deck relays mainly on bringing out Pascek, Tyler (normally due to > Minion taps, because there is no way to bleed bounce or other kind of > serious pool gaining) and prepare for the vote to get passed. Will of the > council, awes, oxford university are handy, but once she becomes archon, be > ready to beat enough votes off of the table in order to keep the archon > title. It's one of the slowest decks I've ever played with. though I even > managed to achieve 2 vp in a game. Got wipped off by too many common > strategies... i started to build a tyler deck, can you post yours just to have a look? > >> -- >> LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. >> Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: >> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ > > Stelios > > -- TzimisceLord http://myvtes.free.fr http://sabbatinfrance.free.fr

... > > i started to build a tyler deck, can you post yours just to have a look? > -- > TzimisceLord > http://myvtes.free.fr > http://sabbatinfrance.free.fr Sure, Deck Name: Archon Created By: Stelios Description: Pascek/Tyler archon multi-rush Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 21, Max: 41, Avg: 8,17) ---------------------------------------------- 1 Brachah for CEL PRE 5, Brujah 1 Gwendolyn aus CEL FOR POT PRE tha 11, Brujah, Inner Circle 3 Jaroslav Pascek CEL for obf POT PRE 10, Brujah, Justicar 1 Maxwell CEL FOR POT PRE PRO 9, Brujah 1 Pug Jackson CEL for POT pre 6, Brujah, Primogen 3 Tyler CEL dom for obt POT PRE 9, Brujah, Primogen 2 Volker CEL pot 5, Brujah, Prince Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (16 cards) 2 Absolution of the Diabolist 1 Al's Army Apparatus 2 Blood Doll 2 Fortitude 1 Hunt Club. The 4 Minion Tap 1 Oxford University, England 1 Rack, The 1 Tension in the Ranks 1 Vast Wealth Action (2 cards) 2 Will of The Council Action Modifier (10 cards) 3 Awe 2 Bewitching Oration 5 Freak Drive Political Action (7 cards) 1 Ancient Influence 4 Archon 2 National Guard Support Reaction (8 cards) 8 Second Tradition: Domain, The Combat (39 cards) 5 Amaranth 2 Burning Wrath 4 Disarm 2 Disguised Weapon 2 Majesty 5 Psyche! 8 Pursuit 3 Skin of Night 4 Skin of Steel 2 Staredown 2 Superior Mettle Equipment (7 cards) 1 Crimson Sentinel, The 2 IR Goggles 1 Ivory Bow 1 Rowan Ring 1 Sengir Dagger 1 Sport Bike Combo (1 cards) 1 Elemental Stoicism Stelios

> Deck Name: Archon > Created By: Stelios > Description: Pascek/Tyler archon multi-rush <snipped deck> Seems like a lot of trouble to put lots of vampires in torpor, would multiple Baltimore Purges do the trick? Get a bunch of weenies - perhaps Ravnos for the stealth, do 3 or so Purges, influence out Tyler at end of your turn, if all goes to plan in you next turn 3 weenies go to torpor along with 3 vamps from each player... Tyler then eats about 12 vampires, and your weenies drag themselves out of torpor. One weakness is surviving the other 4 players turns... Jazzbeaux > Stelios > >

"jazzbeaux" <sam....@renelec.co.uk> escribió en el mensaje news:amslkm$4ki$1...@paris.btinternet.com... [ quoted text not captured ] HEre in Spain we allready HATE Baltimore's Purge, even more than any weenie deck sitting at our table. But wait, there is something I don't understand about your strategy: BP sends to torpor vampires OF THE SAME AGE OR YOUNGER as the acting one, so unless any other deck at the table is a Weenie one, you won't get to torporize any other vamp if you do the purge with, say, Sasha Mykos or Lazar Dubrescu, the only one ending in torpor will be your vampire. Purge with HUGE Lasombras aided with Tyler is a much more valid strategy, as we've already suffered here. > > > Stelios > > > > > >

> Purge with HUGE Lasombras aided with Tyler is a much more valid strategy, as > we've already suffered here. Ack! Major mistake by me here - ignore my posts, I will from now on... ;) Jazzbeaux > > > > > > Stelios > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > Purge with HUGE Lasombras aided with Tyler is a much more valid strategy, > as > > we've already suffered here. > > Ack! Major mistake by me here - ignore my posts, I will from now on... i think a good use of baltimore purge could be with fortitude big vamps, making use of renewed vigor at outferior version +freak drive: put renewed vigor on your big cap vamp,freak and untap,then baltimore purge.repeat at libitum. in this way you use only one vampire to purge enemies and without waste of actions of your other minions to take out of torpor your purged vamp. the ideal vamp to do this seems to be lucita, or maybe moncada so you can really choose every vamps you want fo the purge! bye

"NaNu Gurthu" <emadi...@libero.it> wrote in message news:<rlrk9.12951$Eu.2...@twister1.libero.it>... [ quoted text not captured ] More actions, more stealth you need. As another countryman said before, here in Spain, and much more in Madrid, deck has become more extreme/oriented(Overhelm or allIntercept deck). So, when I played my first Purge's Deck, intercept surged fron everywhere in other players minions. I have 25 stealth cards, 4 seductions and two Eslysean fields, but I have only played succesfully four BP in two weeks(having played a lot of games). So, if a players plays 2nd tradition, you will need 3 stealth at least. We know that in other countrys decks are constructed for a slower play(beleive me, players from other citys had said it to me), but here, a deck with Auspex will play you five intercept cards in a single action easily. There is not Lasombra that can support that, and BP deck needs perform a lot of actions with no base stealth(graverobbing, diablerize, purge...). There is anything that must be added. While you have a defensive deck intercepting all actions you try, you must defense from your predator and possibly, from your "ally". So, i beleive, a deck based of BP is immposible to play with. Perhaps a deck with one to three BP but based in another strategy could do anything(ex: shadow twin Lasombra with 3 BP). But this is only my viewpoint. Enrique BAsañez Mercader, Prince of MAdrid.

agents...@yahoo.com (Emilio) wrote in message news:<c483e442.02092...@posting.google.com>... > > So, if a players plays 2nd tradition, you will need 3 stealth at > least. We know that in other countrys decks are constructed for a > slower play(beleive me, players from other citys had said it to me), > but here, a deck with Auspex will play you five intercept cards in a > single action easily. There is not Lasombra that can support that, Try playing with more elder impersonations/blanket of nights/necro-blockfail cards then. T

"Talonz" <talo...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje news:76d1d5ef.02092...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] ...Or play decks that DO NOT USE any stealth at all, so their hands will jam in but a few turns. Ok, not a valid strategy for a Purge deck, but if you play with a combat deck eager to be blocked, then this is your kind of action (exemples: Cardano calls a purge. Block anyone? Dawn Operation-weather control-skin of night, backed with a few kiss of Ra for the ocasional Tzimisce.) Other possibility is the use of unblockability cards. Daring the Dawn/beast meld are nice cards for such a deck. Damnans is building a deck like this, featuring Stanislava as main star, and Lissette Vizquel Hola Basa! Stelios (Tom,Mad&Co) > > T

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3D91A766...@white-wolf.com>... > Sander wrote: > > Does that mean that when Tyler is made an archon, she can rush, beat a > > vampire to torpor, amaranth him, untap and repeat the whole thing again, > > because no card gives her these abilities ??? > > If she has some way beat each one into torpor, yes. Hang on, the new NRA section on the White Wolf homepage says : "The last item (card in play) includes any special ability the minion may have." Wouldn´t that apply to being named Archon ? Magnus

Magnus wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] No, since Archon is not a card in play. That card's text does not read: "put this card in play", so the card is discarded. Name: Archon [Jyhad, V:TES, CE] Cardtype: Political Action Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any prince or justicar at +1 stealth. Choose a Camarilla vampire. Successful referendum makes the vampire an archon. An archon may enter combat with a vampire controlled by another Methuselah as a +1 stealth (D) action. Any vampire attempting to block an archon burns 1 blood. Blood hunts cannot be called on an archon. Any Camarilla vampire can call a referendum to remove these abilities as a +1 stealth political action. Greetings, Damnans

I think Magnus has a valid point here. The last item (card in play) includes any special ability the minion may have. This line doesn't state the special ability the minion has has to be provided by a card in play, just that any special ability posessed by the minion falls under the NRA rules as per the 'card in play' rule. I think the abilities provided by Archon could very well be considered 'special abilities' and as such fall under the NRA rules. If i were a judge, or LSJ for that matter, I'd say I'm right :P -D

In message <93148a54.0209...@posting.google.com>, jja....@hccnet.nl (Darky) mumbled something about: >I think Magnus has a valid point here. > >The last item (card in play) includes any special ability the minion >may have. That's because the minion itself is a card in play. >This line doesn't state the special ability the minion has has to be >provided >by a card in play, just that any special ability posessed by the >minion falls under the NRA rules as per the 'card in play' rule. Right. The minion (Beast, for example) is a card in play, and therefore the ability granted to Beast by the card in play named "Beast", that of Rushing someone as a (D) action, is covered by the NRA rules. >I think the abilities provided by Archon could very well be considered >'special abilities' and as such fall under the NRA rules. Archon is an ability provided by a card which is no longer in play, however. As such, it does not fall under the current NRA rules. >If i were a judge, or LSJ for that matter, I'd say I'm right :P Rules and card text, however, would say you were wrong. -- "There's no gray. There's just white that's got grubby." -- T.P.

Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9v5dpustet1nug9t8...@4ax.com>... > >I think the abilities provided by Archon could very well be considered > >'special abilities' and as such fall under the NRA rules. > > Archon is an ability provided by a card which is no longer in play, > however. As such, it does not fall under the current NRA rules. Hey, I´m definitely *not* adverse to this, as long as it is *my* Tyler doing the rushing. <g> Magnus

Darky wrote: > > I think Magnus has a valid point here. > > The last item (card in play) includes any special ability the minion > may have. > > This line doesn't state the special ability the minion has has to be > provided by a card in play, just that any special ability posessed by the > minion falls under the NRA rules as per the 'card in play' rule. Since the Archon is not a card in play, it is clearly different for purposes of the "card inplay" rule than the vampire, which is a card in play. Any actions given by the vampire card in play's card text are covered by the "actions by a card in play" rule. Actions given by the Archon are not, since it is not a card in play. > I think the abilities provided by Archon could very well be considered > 'special abilities' and as such fall under the NRA rules. If you count "special ability" as the stuff on the vampire's card text, then "special abilities" are restricted and the Archon is not a special ability. If you count "special ability" as anything the vampire can do, then "special abilities" are not covered by a blanket restriction, and the Archon "special ability" isn't restriction by any aspect of the "NRA" rules. > If i were a judge, or LSJ for that matter, I'd say I'm right :P If you were LSJ, you'd say you were wrong, actually. :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] No. The rules only cover bleeds, political actions, action cards, and cards in play. The Archon rush is none of these. The web page summarizes the rule and draws attention to the fact that vampire are in fact crypt cards in play. [ quoted text not captured ]

Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9v5dpustet1nug9t8...@4ax.com>... > In message <93148a54.0209...@posting.google.com>, > jja....@hccnet.nl (Darky) mumbled something about: > > >I think Magnus has a valid point here. > > > >The last item (card in play) includes any special ability the minion > >may have. > > That's because the minion itself is a card in play. Yes, but it doesn't state any other special abilities are limited to the text on the minion, so if the minion has any kind of special ability allowing it to take an action, it does fall under NRA rules. > >This line doesn't state the special ability the minion has has to be > >provided > >by a card in play, just that any special ability posessed by the > >minion falls under the NRA rules as per the 'card in play' rule. > > Right. The minion (Beast, for example) is a card in play, and therefore > the ability granted to Beast by the card in play named "Beast", that of > Rushing someone as a (D) action, is covered by the NRA rules. ehm I say 'the special ability the minion has doesnt have to be provided by a card in play for the last line of the NRA rules to apply' You say im correct and then give an example about an ability provided by a card in play. > >I think the abilities provided by Archon could very well be considered > >'special abilities' and as such fall under the NRA rules. > > Archon is an ability provided by a card which is no longer in play, > however. As such, it does not fall under the current NRA rules. As I just said 'when you read the rules, i doesn't state special abilities have to be provided by a card in play to fall under NRA rules' (If it would be in play, the last line of the rules would have nothing to do with it, since it would be an ability provided by a card in play) > > >If i were a judge, or LSJ for that matter, I'd say I'm right :P > > Rules and card text, however, would say you were wrong. Maybe i wasn't clear enough, read again :) sorry if im a bit defensive but your reply didnt make much sense. -D

Darky wrote: > > Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9v5dpustet1nug9t8...@4ax.com>... > > In message <93148a54.0209...@posting.google.com>, > > jja....@hccnet.nl (Darky) mumbled something about: > > > > >I think Magnus has a valid point here. > > > > > >The last item (card in play) includes any special ability the minion > > >may have. > > > > That's because the minion itself is a card in play. > > Yes, but it doesn't state any other special abilities are limited to > the text on the minion, so if the minion has any kind of special > ability allowing it to take an action, it does fall under NRA rules. I think you're confusing the intro-to-the-new-rules web page's summary with the actual rules. The summary clarifies that "card in play" includes crypt cards. It doesn't extend to the rule to have "card in play" cover effect from things that are not "cards in play". > > >This line doesn't state the special ability the minion has has to be > > >provided > > >by a card in play, just that any special ability posessed by the > > >minion falls under the NRA rules as per the 'card in play' rule. > > > > Right. The minion (Beast, for example) is a card in play, and therefore > > the ability granted to Beast by the card in play named "Beast", that of > > Rushing someone as a (D) action, is covered by the NRA rules. > > ehm > > I say 'the special ability the minion has doesnt have to be provided > by a card in play for the last line of the NRA rules to apply' The last item of the NRA web page introduction only covers cards in play. It doesn't apply to other things. > You say im correct and then give an example about an ability provided > by a card in play. Beast's rush Talbot's Chainsaw's rush. > > >I think the abilities provided by Archon could very well be considered > > >'special abilities' and as such fall under the NRA rules. > > > > Archon is an ability provided by a card which is no longer in play, > > however. As such, it does not fall under the current NRA rules. > > As I just said 'when you read the rules, i doesn't state special > abilities have to be provided by a card in play to fall under NRA > rules' The rules restrict the repetition of actions in exactly four cases: bleed actions [6.1.1], political actions [6.1.7], action card actions [6.1.6], actions enabled by cards in play [6.1.6]. It you have a citation from the rules that supports your position, please give it. > (If it would be in play, the last line of the rules would have nothing > to do with it, since it would be an ability provided by a card in > play) ? The "last item" of the web page in question is about cards in play. Why would it have nothing to do with cards in play? [ quoted text not captured ]

> I think you're confusing the intro-to-the-new-rules web page's summary > with the actual rules. doh! i am.. sorry, you're right, i'm wrong :P

Or, Try Toreador Grand Ball. Annabelle Triabell has both for and dom so she could purge, freak, defend GB. Next round: rapid heal, freak, graverob etc. Heck, she could even bloat by calling The Peace of Khetamon... Another possibility could be Spider-Killer Torpor-loop deck. (The Purge would be at +2 stealth w/o stealth modifiers, and he could Sacrifice some lambs.) AL