NRA and cards that have multiple "actions" or "functions" on them...

So... a minion of mine governs at superior... he Changes the target, or somehow untaps later, and he'd like to govern at inferior now... Why can't I do that? I'm not repeating a type of action (Ie. bleed), but I'm repeating what the action is called, the type of action I'm doing is different. I'm guessing I can't... which is lame. They're two different types of actions... Similarly, can Mr. Ventrue dude Govern at Superior, and then Scouting Mission at superior. It'd be nice if the answer to this one was no, but it'd be impossible to distinquish it from other similar actions (One of the traditions... a presence card that does that, that 'new' AUS DEM card). Also... If I use Swallowed by the night at superior, and then Form of Mist it to continue my action, can I play another Swallowed by the Night at inferior (assuming I need the stealth)? For that matter, can I play the Burning Touch action modifier that makes dudes burn a blood to block, I continue the action he declines to block and then play that same action modifier (but a different effect) at superior to increase my bleed by one? That'd make this card slightly less lame... :) Thats all! ~SV

On 25 Feb 2002 13:35:50 -0800, vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote: >So... a minion of mine governs at superior... he Changes the target, >or somehow untaps later, and he'd like to govern at inferior now... > >Why can't I do that? I'm not repeating a type of action (Ie. bleed), >but I'm repeating what the action is called, the type of action I'm >doing is different. > >I'm guessing I can't... which is lame. They're two different types of >actions... I agree with you, but rules are rules all be it lame...:) It's also lame that I have to pay 60% in tax. It sux, but is the way things are done. > >Similarly, can Mr. Ventrue dude Govern at Superior, and then Scouting >Mission at superior. It'd be nice if the answer to this one was no, >but it'd be impossible to distinquish it from other similar actions >(One of the traditions... a presence card that does that, that 'new' >AUS DEM card). Using Govern SUP, Scout mission SUP, Enchant Kindred SUP, or the Call, are basicly the same actions, so subject t NRA, don't ask me why.. it's intuitive > >Also... If I use Swallowed by the night at superior, and then Form of >Mist it to continue my action, can I play another Swallowed by the >Night at inferior (assuming I need the stealth)? You suggest using a stealth modifier during combat???? > >For that matter, can I play the Burning Touch action modifier that >makes dudes burn a blood to block, I continue the action he declines >to block and then play that same action modifier (but a different >effect) at superior to increase my bleed by one? That'd make this card >slightly less lame... :) > As far as I know, you can't use the same action modifier twice on 1 action. So I would say, you used swalloed by the noght for the addtional stealth (modifier) and still get blocked. Then still the option is there to use swallowed by the night as combat card to maneuver.

"vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f987c6cd.02022...@posting.google.com... > So... a minion of mine governs at superior... he Changes the target, > or somehow untaps later, and he'd like to govern at inferior now... > > Why can't I do that? Because the action is the same. Only the results are different. A Govern action influences vampires that are not controlled, adversely for your opponent at inferior, in your favor at superior. > I'm not repeating a type of action (Ie. bleed), > but I'm repeating what the action is called, the type of action I'm > doing is different. Wrong. The action is exactly the same. > I'm guessing I can't... which is lame. They're two different types of > actions... They are two different effects. The action is the same. > Similarly, can Mr. Ventrue dude Govern at Superior, and then Scouting > Mission at superior. Yes, he can. They are different actions, and there is no type of action called "move counters to an uncontrolled vampire". > It'd be nice if the answer to this one was no, > but it'd be impossible to distinquish it from other similar actions Why? > (One of the traditions... a presence card that does that, that 'new' > AUS DEM card). Govern, Freak Drive, Scout, Freak Drive, Fourth Tradition. An eight point vampire for a few blood and cards played. Sounds good to me. > Also... If I use Swallowed by the night at superior, and then Form of > Mist it to continue my action, can I play another Swallowed by the > Night at inferior (assuming I need the stealth)? Yes. The superior is only a combat card. > For that matter, can I play the Burning Touch action modifier that > makes dudes burn a blood to block, I continue the action he declines > to block and then play that same action modifier (but a different > effect) at superior to increase my bleed by one? No. Burning Touch is an action modifier at both levels you mention here. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com/vtes_faq.htm section 3.19 -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Pepijn" <neuro...@xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:3c7ab204....@newszilla.xs4all.nl... > >Similarly, can Mr. Ventrue dude Govern at Superior, and then Scouting > >Mission at superior. It'd be nice if the answer to this one was no, > >but it'd be impossible to distinquish it from other similar actions > >(One of the traditions... a presence card that does that, that 'new' > >AUS DEM card). > > Using Govern SUP, Scout mission SUP, Enchant Kindred SUP, or the Call, > are basicly the same actions, so subject t NRA, don't ask me why.. > it's intuitive No, they aren't. See the definition of repeat actions in the VEKN tournament rules. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/veknRules.html section 6.4.1 See also the FAQ, section 3.19. http://www.thelasombra.com/vtes_faq.htm > >Also... If I use Swallowed by the night at superior, and then Form of > >Mist it to continue my action, can I play another Swallowed by the > >Night at inferior (assuming I need the stealth)? > You suggest using a stealth modifier during combat???? No, using a maneuver during combat. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com [ quoted text not captured ]

"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<82c0d4f856e3863f87e...@mygate.mailgate.org>... > "vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:f987c6cd.02022...@posting.google.com... > > For that matter, can I play the Burning Touch action modifier that > > makes dudes burn a blood to block, I continue the action he declines > > to block and then play that same action modifier (but a different > > effect) at superior to increase my bleed by one? > > No. > Burning Touch is an action modifier at both levels you mention here. An action modifier with a completely different effect. Lame. Alwell. It'd be difficult to make a distinction between things like that, so I suppose this rule is there for sake of simplicity... Just doesn't make logical "sense"... not that these things should. :) Point taken and I concede to argue the point anymore. Just makes !Salubri that much more weak (restricting myself to mostly commons, that is). :) ~SV

The Lasombra wrote: > > Similarly, can Mr. Ventrue dude Govern at Superior, and then Scouting > > Mission at superior. > > Yes, he can. > They are different actions, and there is no type of action called > "move counters to an uncontrolled vampire". > > > It'd be nice if the answer to this one was no, > > but it'd be impossible to distinquish it from other similar actions > > Why? > Uh, because... > > Govern, Freak Drive, Scout, Freak Drive, Fourth Tradition. > An eight point vampire for a few blood and cards played. > Sounds good to me. > Uh, a second minion (for that second bleed action every turn, or second damage vote every turn, or second rush action at dawn every turn or...) is, correct me if I'm wrong, generally worse for Mr. Ventrue's prey than the odd extra whateverkindofactionitis from the same minion. As such, if NRA is supposed to be a balancing rule, it should definitely balance that, too... Thomas

Thomas Pichler wrote: > The Lasombra wrote: > > Govern, Freak Drive, Scout, Freak Drive, Fourth Tradition. > > An eight point vampire for a few blood and cards played. > > Sounds good to me. > As such, if NRA is supposed to be a balancing rule, it should definitely > balance that, too... As it is not unbalanced (here meaning merely not abused) in current tournaments, there is no problem to correct. When that changes, as always, the problem will be addressed. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/