a couple questions on new cards

Hey, just a few quick questions... (and a shout out to any of the old boys who might remember me from before. I'll try not to start anymore arguments like the great 2nd Tradition Debate... and I won't say I told you so or ask you to compare the new errata with my old arguments. That just wouldn't be polite. 8) ) 1) Free States Rant - are Independent votes considered "titles" or just "votes"? i.e. does Kephamos have 2 votes or 1 vote during a Free States Rant referendum? Something tells me that the votes are considered a non-contestable title, but I've never really considered those vampires to be "titled vampires", and I don't remember if there was an earlier ruling on this. 2) Is the Puppetteer (Wraith) considered a wraith for the purposes of Shroud Mastery? I have to assume that he is, since the parenthetical epithets seem to have been a means of classifying allies before putting the ally class into the text box, but the spoiler text has only "Ally with 1 life...", as opposed to the "Unique wraith with N life..." that the other FN wraiths have. More generally, are words in a card's title considered to define a card's class with the same priority as the actual text box? (and, on a similar note, is there a "foo" rule in Jyhad, and if so, is the Muddled Vampire Hunter considered a vampire? 8) )

In message <5287ede4.01080...@posting.google.com>, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> writes >1) Free States Rant - are Independent votes considered "titles" or >just "votes"? Independent vampires with votes written on their card text have titles, yep. [6.3.3] and [6.3.4] >i.e. does Kephamos have 2 votes or 1 vote during a Free >States Rant referendum? Something tells me that the votes are >considered a non-contestable title, They're: - a title - a non-contestable title - a non-clan linked titled (like Justicars) - a non-sect linked title (like all the others) >2) Is the Puppetteer (Wraith) considered a wraith for the purposes of >Shroud Mastery? I have to assume that he is, since the parenthetical >epithets seem to have been a means of classifying allies before >putting the ally class into the text box, but the spoiler text has >only "Ally with 1 life...", as opposed to the "Unique wraith with N >life..." that the other FN wraiths have. Hmmm.... the card text file on the web-site says: "Wraith with 1 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed." > More generally, are words in >a card's title considered to define a card's class with the same >priority as the actual text box? The card texts on-line now reflect their type. Also see: Message-ID: <eb4eb7f8.01071...@posting.google.com> Subject: Types for allies and retainers Drop it into groups.google.com/advanced_group_search if you need to. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D EBD690ECD7A1F HEY, MOM! I FOUND SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET B457CA213D7E6 YOU WERE TELLING ME TO NOT TALK TO! 68C3695D623D5D

Chris Berger wrote: > > Hey, just a few quick questions... (and a shout out to any of the old > boys who might remember me from before. I'll try not to start anymore > arguments like the great 2nd Tradition Debate... and I won't say I > told you so or ask you to compare the new errata with my old > arguments. That just wouldn't be polite. 8) ) > > 1) Free States Rant - are Independent votes considered "titles" or > just "votes"? i.e. does Kephamos have 2 votes or 1 vote during a Free > States Rant referendum? Something tells me that the votes are > considered a non-contestable title, but I've never really considered > those vampires to be "titled vampires", and I don't remember if there > was an earlier ruling on this. Independent vampire with votes printed on their cards ("Joe has 5 votes") are titled. [6.3.4] > > 2) Is the Puppetteer (Wraith) considered a wraith for the purposes of > Shroud Mastery? I have to assume that he is, since the parenthetical > epithets seem to have been a means of classifying allies before > putting the ally class into the text box, but the spoiler text has > only "Ally with 1 life...", as opposed to the "Unique wraith with N > life..." that the other FN wraiths have. Card text says he's a "wraith with 1 life.", as shown on the online spoiler text list. > More generally, are words in > a card's title considered to define a card's class with the same > priority as the actual text box? No. Types in parentheses on card titles tend to match the actual types of the thing in card text (or in the latest rulings), with the peculiar case of the Bane Mummies excepted. > (and, on a similar note, is there a > "foo" rule in Jyhad, and if so, is the Muddled Vampire Hunter > considered a vampire? 8) ) No. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B70728C.728751B9@white-LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B70728C...@white-wolf.com>... > Independent vampire with votes printed on their cards ("Joe has 5 votes") > are titled. [6.3.4] > > K. I kinda don't like it, as it seems counter-intuitive (to me, at least), but I promised I wouldn't start any more big stupid debates, and anyway, I had a feeling it was a fairly old ruling that is now pretty deeply ingrained. Oh, well. The effect it has on Free States Rant is a little rough, but Settite vote decks can't do without heavy Presence anyway. > > 2) Is the Puppetteer (Wraith) considered a wraith for the purposes of > > Shroud Mastery? I have to assume that he is, since the parenthetical > > epithets seem to have been a means of classifying allies before > > putting the ally class into the text box, but the spoiler text has > > only "Ally with 1 life...", as opposed to the "Unique wraith with N > > life..." that the other FN wraiths have. > > Card text says he's a "wraith with 1 life.", as shown on the online spoiler > text list. > Oops. Sorry. Had a bad spoiler. *sheepish grin* Thanks for the replies (and yes, I knew Muddles wasn't a vampire ;)). And James... don't think I didn't notice you using my term, Seven Line Syndrome, in a post a little while back. I see all. 8) ...at least, I think it was you... my omniscient vision is a little hazy.

On 7 Aug 2001 21:09:13 -0700, ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Chris Berger) wrote: >LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B70728C.728751B9@white-LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3B70728C...@white-wolf.com>... >> Independent vampire with votes printed on their cards ("Joe has 5 votes") >> are titled. [6.3.4] >> > >K. I kinda don't like it, as it seems counter-intuitive (to me, at >least), but I promised I wouldn't start any more big stupid debates, >and anyway, I had a feeling it was a fairly old ruling that is now >pretty deeply ingrained. Oh, well. The effect it has on Free States >Rant is a little rough, but Settite vote decks can't do without heavy >Presence anyway. There was a number of threads dealing with titled independents. You're not the only one who thinks it's counter-intuitive.

Jack Crow wrote: > On 7 Aug 2001 21:09:13 -0700, ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu (Chris Berger) > wrote: > >LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > There was a number of threads dealing with titled independents. You're > not the only one who thinks it's counter-intuitive. As intuitive as not using an equipment in the round in which it's stolen, I'd guess (that is, not really intuitive at all). Fortunately, they're both in the rules. [ quoted text not captured ]